New LP Studio owner has questions

[larryc]

I have a new LP Studio, worn cherry finish model. A couple of things need to be addressed so I'm looking for advice from seasoned owners.

 

1 - frets are protruding past the fingerboard. The shop tech told me to put a wet rag in a plastic bag, poke a hole it it to let moisture escape, put it in the case with the guitar and let the wood soak up some moisture. According to him, a day or so and the problem will be cured.

 

OK... Nice guy and seems pretty sharp...but I'm not sold on the fix. If the fret board grows that much, it's got to screw things up royally...or so I'm thinking anyway.

 

I read somewhere to use belt leather to take the edges down? ? ?

 

2 - Action was really low, 1.5 /64 on high E side and 2 / 64 on low E side. It sounded dead from the 12th fret on through. I raised the action just a tad to 2.5/ 64 and 3/64. Nice improvement. Could maybe go a bit more on the low E side.

 

After making that adjustment I noticed the strings are all contacting the back edge of the bridge now. Tail piece is cranked all the way down. So, I called the shop and questioned them. I was told don't worry about the strings contacting the bridge. It will only very slightly affect the tone of the guitar. Well, I'm asking for opinions on this as well.

 

I've read that having the tail piece cranked all the way down helps with sustain. Ok, that's great but I've also read that it's better to not have the strings touch the bridge.

 

NOW.... the point is this. I dumped the Eppi for the Gibson because I could never get the thing to feel good, no matter how much I adjusted the neck, action, swapped strings...you name it. I expect a little setup to be required with the new Gibson but I want to just get it done, PROPERLY and not have to keep messing with it.

 

Let me have it guys..

[swleary]

Ok sounds like th either the shop or the luthier don't know what they are doing.

 

The frets should be filed down or dressed properly, not a wet bag thrown in the case. That'll effect the whole guitar too much.

 

I've read too about the tail piece dropped down but honestly, mine is at Gibson specs and the LP sustains for days. I would get it properly setup.

 

This is from a Gibson setup employee :To check neck relief: fret the low E at the first and 15th fret (not 12th) reach to the 7th fret and tap string. There should be a small space between string and fret - no thicker than a piece of paper. Do the same with the high E.

ACTION: fret low E at first fret and measure the distance from the bottom of the to the top of the 15th fret. It should be 5/64". Do the same with the high E, measurement should be 3/64". Now measure the string height at the nut; underside of the string to the top of the fret. Low E and A should measure 2/64", D and G =1.5/64" and B and high E = 1/64". If string height at nut is correct, recheck string height at 12th fret with strings open. Measurement for low and high E's should be the same as measurement taken at the 15th.

 

If the shop you bought it from doesn't want to fix it right then I'd take it to another dealer and if all else fails, call Gibson customer service.

[strat-o-steve]

Your guitar has dried out due to the low moisture of the winter air. Yes, the fretboard will shrink enough to cause the fret ends to protrude. Adding moisture will fix this, either use a humidifier in the room the guitar is stored, or try the trick the "repairman" gave you. Your strings touching the bridge is the result of you raising the bridge to set string height. Simply raise the stop bar accordingly so the strings don't rest on the bridge......that's why all these parts are adjustable. As for filing the fret ends, it isn't required. That would solve the problem, but just adding moisture to get the wood somewhere near the 45% it was at in the factory will work too, without taking tools to the guitar :) Your axe is fine, and the repairman did not steer you wrong, yet. You can pay someone to set your axe up, or you can turn the screws yourself! Try getting the moisture content up before doing anything else! Those frets were not sticking out like that when the guitar was made. I've done it both ways, filing the fret ends, and adding moisture.....and although filing will fix it permanently, you are only treating a symptom, not the cause when doing this. Hope this helps, and you get your AWESOME axe up and rocking soon!

[larryc]

Thank you both for responding. It's greatly appreciated. ;)

 

With regard to the strings touching the bridge.... Is there a spec for the distance they should clear it by or maybe a preferred angle the stings should have between the bridge and the tail piece?

[Yaff]

 

 

With regard to the strings touching the bridge.... Is there a spec for the distance they should clear it by or maybe a preferred angle the stings should have between the bridge and the tail piece?

 

As close as possibly. I use a bit of paper. If I can slide it between the string and the back of the bridge, its all good.

 

Regarding the moisture bit, I am no expert, but that sounds risky.

 

All the best

[larryc]

Well, I raised the saddle up 2.5 turns and the strings still touch

 

I measured the height of the saddle to be 12/64 from the surface of the guitar to the bottom of the saddle. NO other changes except for retuning.

 

Result - Big time tone change in the guitar. Much flatter sounding. Loss of brilliance to the tone of the strings now. Easier to bend strings but I'm not fond of the overall tone at all

 

String height at 12th [strings open] still the same at 3/63L to 2/64H. That all said, I have to wonder about if it's even possible to setup this guitar to Gibson's specs for string height and NOT have the strings touch the rear of the bridge.

 

Is there some possibility that the guitar has wrong parts on it? Or am I better off just returning to the original setup of the tail piece height and not worry about the strings touching the bridge?

 

Somewhat dismayed about having specs from the manufacturer not seemingly possible to meet. I have to wonder how bad the guitar would sound with 5/64L 3/64H action height at 12th and saddle raised [if even possible] to a height where the strings don't touch the back of the bridge....

[jmjohnson]

I have to wonder how bad the guitar would sound with 5/64L 3/64H action height at 12th and saddle raised [if even possible] to a height where the strings don't touch the back of the bridge....

 

I set up all my guitars this way and haven't had an issue yet. Since the stopbar tailpiece was all the way down, it may just take a few more turn the get the strings off the bridge. However lots of people don't worry about the strings hitting the back corner, and prefer that the tailpiece all the way down for 'tighter coupling' or whatever. If one way sounds/feels better then the other to you, then that's the way you should go with.

[larryc]

Thank you yet again for the replies Here's what I've discovered after some more adjustments.

 

I figured nothing to loose by continuing to adjust the saddle up more so that's the route I took. What I did was raise the saddle amother 1.5 turns. I have clearance on all but the high E string. Ok...nother half turn....still no clearance on the high E and that side of the saddle is 1t 2/64 higher than the low E side. The other 5 strings [b-Low E] all have clearance.

 

Then I noticed the high E string has a brass barrel where as the other 5 have silver colored barrels. I would have to think someone broke the original High E in the store and it was replaced. Might be causing some of the problem.

 

I'm going to throw on a new set of Ernie Balls 10-46 and see what happens. If the problem remains & if the only string still tight to the *** end of the bridge is still the high E, I'm going to suspect the bridge saddle for that string has a deeper groove than the other 5.

 

Is it unusual for the tail piece height to be varied from one side to the other on this guitar?

 

Please understand. I'm not trying to be a pain in the *** about this. I just want to understand as much as possible about the various adjustments possible on this guitar and how they affect the tone and playability of it.

[BigKahune]

Some like the stop low as it will go, for increased brake angle over the saddles - without the strings touching the back edge of the bridge.

 

To maximize that setup, the stop would follow the height of the bridge from one side to the other. This might be how your Studio is setup.

[badbluesplayer]

Larry. This is how Gibson sets up the bridge and tailpiece:

 

The strings should not touch the back of the bridge. To fix this, you need to raise the tailpiece. You should not crank the tailpiece down against the top of the guitar if you want your guitar to be set up the way that Gibson does it. That's not how it was designed. The angle that the strings make when they go over the bridge should be similar to the angle that they make over the nut - about 15 degrees.

 

The tailpiece will normally end up higher on the bass side than on the treble side. This is in order to make all the strings have the same angle over the bridge.

 

Bottom Line - Adjust the tailpiece height so that all strings have a 15 degree break angle over the bridge and make sure that the strings don't touch the back of the bridge.

[larryc]

I stopped into GC yesterday to pick up some strings and a truss rod wrench. I couldn't get a truss rod wrench They told me Gibson no longer ships them with their guitars. None in stock either. I was told it's a 5/16", [which is the same as 8mm].

 

I've run into another problem now. The G string has a flat sound to it. Also when you play a c7 chord, A# note is god awful. For whatever reason on this guitar, that note resonates louder than it should. You can distinctly hear that note over the rest of the notes in the chord.

 

If I bar the 3rd fret and play each string progressively, when the A# note is played, it's very distinctly louder than any other note and it's not as crisp either. Brand new D'Addirio EXL+ Strings, .0095,.0115, .016, .024, .034, .044.

 

The reason I went with those strings is because my 89 Strat with EB Super Slinky's plays much easier than this Les Paul.

 

I'm taking the guitar back today to see if their tech has any ideas. Might come home with a different guitar if it can't be sorted out.

 

 

Anyway, thanks guys for all your assistance & input. I'll let you know what goes down. Mike at GC is a great guy. I'm sure he'll resolve this.

 

Larry

[Eracer_Team]

Regarding the moisture bit, I am no expert, but that sounds risky.

 

What??

 

They are suggesting leaving the guitar in the case with a wet cloth in a bag to let the moisture out into the case and rehydrate the guitar..

Not risky at all.

 

guitars should fall between 45-65% humidity..

Too low and the guitar dries out and is hard too adjust (hmm sounds like what Larryc is doing.. and he's now going to crank on the truss rod )

 

LarryC.. go to Walmart buy yourself one of those small humidity gauges for about $4 and put it in the case with the guitar over night...

 

Is the humidity in the case below 45%.. if yes .. buy yourself a guitar case humidifier before fiddling with anymore adjustments (I know its in the shop now, hopefully they rehydrate your guitar first)

[larryc]

I picked up a humidifier for the case at GC and put the guitar in the case last night with a gauge. Well, I have to say, it helped already

 

I also learned a thing or two about this guitar today.

 

First, any a# note played resonates like mad through the body. It was the same with another LP Studio I played at the store today. You can really feel it in the body and neck. It surprised me just how much that note resonates through this particular guitar model. I expect it's because of the channeling done to the body to lighten it up. I wouldn't call it a flaw but it is something I would try to eliminate if it's not too complex. JMO

 

Second, depending on the amp it's played through, you notice it more / less. When played through a little solid state amp, the extra harmonics I heard are completely masked. I had been playing the guitar through my home theater setup and / or unplugged.

 

I have to confess, I came close to swapping the LP for another Strat but decided to keep it

 

I've been wanting a maple neck USA Strat for a while now to go with my 89 with the rosewood fretboard. That Maple neck Strat was so smooth...... I'm going to grab one of those next.

 

The more I play the LP, the more I like it.

 

You guys have been very nice and helpful. It'a much appreciated!

[T Bone]

Glad it sounds like it's working out for you, but a couple of points (and I am a bit confused on one). You keep referring to "raising the saddle", which I presume to mean you are raising the bridge? That is backwards of what you needed to remove contact from the back of the bridge. You needed to either lower the bridge, or raise the stop bar.

 

When doing these adjustments, you should always loosen the tension on the strings substantially, to make sure the component is moving freely without influence from the strings, and the strings are not binding anywhere.

 

Next, you mention preferring the stop bar to be all the way down, tight to the body. If that is the case, and you cannot get the strings off the back of the bridge while doing so, you might want to consider trying the "over wrap" on the tail piece. This is where instead of the strings going through the tail piece forward (as intended), you run them through to the rear, and then wrap them over the top of the tail piece enroute to the bridge. I've not tried this myself yet, but many prefer it (including many legendary guitarists). It's said to make for much easier bending among other things. Search the Forum on it, there are LOTS of posts discussing it.

 

Last, with the tweaking and adjustment being done, it is quite likely you will need to re-set the intonation via adjusting the saddles fore and aft to get the proper pitch higher on the neck (use a good tuner and see that the fretted twelfth fret matches the open string tone).

[larryc]

Glad it sounds like it's working out for you, but a couple of points (and I am a bit confused on one). You keep referring to "raising the saddle", which I presume to mean you are raising the bridge? That is backwards of what you needed to remove contact from the back of the bridge. You needed to either lower the bridge, or raise the stop bar.

 

When doing these adjustments, you should always loosen the tension on the strings substantially, to make sure the component is moving freely without influence from the strings, and the strings are not binding anywhere.

 

Next, you mention preferring the stop bar to be all the way down, tight to the body. If that is the case, and you cannot get the strings off the back of the bridge while doing so, you might want to consider trying the "over wrap" on the tail piece. This is where instead of the strings going through the tail piece forward (as intended), you run them through to the rear, and then wrap them over the top of the tail piece enroute to the bridge. I've not tried this myself yet, but many prefer it (including many legendary guitarists). It's said to make for much easier bending among other things. Search the Forum on it, there are LOTS of posts discussing it.

 

Last, with the tweaking and adjustment being done, it is quite likely you will need to re-set the intonation via adjusting the saddles fore and aft to get the proper pitch higher on the neck (use a good tuner and see that the fretted twelfth fret matches the open string tone).

 

 

Sorry if I confused anyone :) I should have said "raised the tail piece"

 

I experimented with raising it because I read that the strings should not touch the bridge where they angle down to the saddle. I guess everyone is different with setup preferences. What would be ideal is to have two of these studios. One setup each way [tail piece raised vs lowered] so you could put one down and grab the other to immediately hear the tone differences.

 

It's been 6 days now with the new guitar and I absolutely LOVE IT!! \:D/ It just took some chopping to get used to it. I'm very happy to own a genuine Gibson. This guitar is incredible!

 

PS - storing it in the case every night with the humidifier seems to have put some moisture back into the neck. There's no more sharp ends on the frets. Just keeps getting better & better.

 

Intonation didn't change with the string gauge swap. I have a Boss TU-80 tuner but expect the new Snark I ordered to be here tomorrow. The G string tends to go out of tune but I bend that string a lot so I'm not surprised.

 

I'll probably give that over-wrap trick a whirl. Thanks for that

 

Larry C

[pippy]

Glad to hear that everything is working out for you.

 

One small point that you may not be aware of regarding Gibson frets;

 

The fret-wire Gibson uses is softer than most manufacturers use. In light of this Gibson recommend 'Pure Nickel' strings are used.

Regular steel strings are made of a harder compound than pure-nickels. This will result in the frets being worn down faster than if nickel strings are used - especially if you do a lot of string-bends.

 

It may not make a lot of difference to longevity - everyone has an opinion on the matter - but it's worth bearing it in mind next time you get a set.

 

P.

[larryc]

Thanks for the heads up on the strings. I have a set of DR Tite-Fit 10-46 to put on it.

Mark SN1 Snark Tuner showed up today also.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just my 2 cents on the bridge/tailpiece issue. According to guitar tech to the gods, Dan Erlewine, there is no advantage to having the stop-bar cranked down all the way. In fact, it can cause damage to the top of the guitar, or cause the studs to bow inwards toward each other. He does recommend that the strings not touch the back of the bridge on their way to the stop-bar, but admits that he couldn't see/feel/hear any difference when they did touch! His recommendation is based more on the common sense assumption that string vibration is hampered by touching the back edge of the bridge before reaching the tailpiece. Wrapping the strings over the tailpiece can make the guitar feel easier to play, especially bending, because it reduces the break angle over the bridge, thus reducing the string tension slightly. If it has any effect on sustain or resonance, I haven't noticed it. I have LP's and SG's that I setup both ways, but I usually use the tailpiiece as Gibson intended.