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Difference between 295 and 295c?


Kpassa

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I have a chance to buy an all original, even down to the sales tag, 1952 ES-295c. I've found articles on the 295 but I can't find out what the "c" stands for. Was that just

a bad description of the guitar? I don't really know much about guitars except that I've been buying them for my son since his first one (a Baby Taylor)at 10 years old. He's

about to graduate from college and enter Law school so I was looking to get him something unique for a graduation present. What's a fair price for this model? I was actually surprised

to read a post stating that this model wasn't highly sought after because of the paint so it's hard to peg what it's worth. TIA for any help.

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I have a chance to buy an all original, even down to the sales tag, 1952 ES-295c. I've found articles on the 295 but I can't find out what the "c" stands for. Was that just

a bad description of the guitar? I don't really know much about guitars except that I've been buying them for my son since his first one (a Baby Taylor)at 10 years old. He's

about to graduate from college and enter Law school so I was looking to get him something unique for a graduation present. What's a fair price for this model? I was actually surprised

to read a post stating that this model wasn't highly sought after because of the paint so it's hard to peg what it's worth. TIA for any help.

 

Never seen that designation for a 295, but on other archtop models, it usually stands for cutaway (as in ES 125 TDC - ES 125 Thinline, Double Pickup, Cutaway). Did the 295 ever exist without a cutaway (or two pups for that matter)?

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Thanks for the explanation Twofeets.

 

As for desirability and especially value, there are surely people on this forum who can give a better answer than I can. However, I think it is a pretty desirable guitar among the rockabilly and 1950s rock 'n' roll fraternity. As you may well already have sussed, Scotty Moore played one on early recordings with Elvis, and because of that connection it's an oversized 295 which hangs outside Sun Records. It is certainly an iconic instrument, then.

 

What constitutes desirable is of course highly relative, before you even start delving into the fully subjective realm of personal preference. For sure a 295 is not as sought-after as a 1958 or 1959 Les Paul, but then no other guitar is. Not sure that the colour is really the main issue, though. After late 1950s Les Paul standards in a sunburst finish, Les Pauls in a goldtop finish from earlier in that decade are some of the most commonly desired solid-body Gibsons. (You should see how quickly the goldtop versions of last year's 1950s tribute Les Paul studio models sold out. Much faster than all the other finishes, including a sunburst which wouldn't look out of place on a '58 LP. So golden Gibsons certainly have their own legions of fans.)

 

I understand that jazz guitarists don't especially favour the 295, even though it is essentially the same guitar as the ES 175 which so many of them love. In their case, colour may well be an issue, as the 175 tends to come in sunburst, black or natural, and those are the colours that most jazz players are seen with whatever their instrument. But there are probably other factors at stake with jazz players too. One is the pickups. Although early 175s had the same P90s as the 295, by the late 1950s, the 175 had PAF humbuckers, while the 295 was discontinued and only survived long enough for a handful to be made with humbuckers. Some jazz players love P90s, and you'll find debates on this forum as to the pros and cons of P90-equipped 175s and their humbucker-equipped siblings, but I think it is fair to say that more jazz players like humbuckers. Given that tendency, it makes sense that more of them would play 175s from the late 1950s or later than would play a 295. Another factor which I believe affects the desirability of the 295 with players (but not necessarily with collectors) is the unusual combination trapeze-tailpiece-come-wrap-around-bridge which was fitted as standard on the model. This item is renowned for making the intonation on 295s problematic. Scotty Moore swapped his out for a regular trapeze tailpiece and separate bridge, presumably because he wanted to stay in tune. I've read that the combination tailpiece-bridge is also the factor which limits the desirability of the very earliest goldtop Les Pauls (same year as the 295 you're looking at), so I suspect that the equivalent item has more of an effect on the value of a 295 than the colour.

 

So not that desirable for the jazz market, but undoubtedly a guitar that is instantly recognizable and surely can always find buyers. Some collectors will buy one for the iconic looks, but its sound will have serious player fans as well. Many rockabilly guitarists prefer single-coil pick-ups on their hollow-body guitars. Many like Gretsches with DeArmonds, but some swear by Gibsons with biting P90s. In this market an all-original Gretsch 6120 with G-Brand, Bigsby tremelo arm and cowboy inlays will win hands down over a 295, but the Gibson is high on the desirability list for sure. The real players might prefer an alternative 1950s Gibson with P90s, because they like to stay relatively in tune. But then those players also perform and are part of a scene where looks are very important, and where the constant abuse of Bigsby whammy bars means that conceptions of being in tune are indeed only relative, and less exacting than among jazz players.

 

A nice graduation present, I'd say. Somebody else will chip in on the price/value front, hopefully.

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Thanks Mojorule, and thanks for your well-written and insightful post. All valid points as to the collectibility of this particular model.

 

The ES350 for a while came stenciled "ES350P" for Premier - this was also later dropped.

 

Hey Kpassa - I just re-read your back story, which is interesting because I have had conversations with a co-worker friend recently that absolutely (uncannily) mirror your story to the letter - son graduating, going to law school, wanting to buy a present that centers around maybe a Gretsch or an ES-295. By any chance do you have a friend in the Orlando area who has the initials P.C.?

 

Value of these models is all over the map. I saw one that was refinished black by Gibson in the 1960's with chrome ES330 pickup covers go for $3995 a few months ago. It really depends on condition - especially the finish, which was very subject to wear and greening - and originality. I would say $4000 to $5000 for one repaired or refinished, up to $9000 in excellent condition.

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Hey Kpassa - I just re-read your back story, which is interesting because I have had conversations with a co-worker friend recently that absolutely (uncannily) mirror your story to the letter - son graduating, going to law school, wanting to buy a present that centers around maybe a Gretsch or an ES-295. By any chance do you have a friend in the Orlando area who has the initials P.C.?

 

Sorry, I go to Orlando a lot but don't know anybody from there other than a guy named Mickey :) There has been a lot of great information for me to digest, thanks for all of the help. I will keep you updated on the sale.

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Value of these models is all over the map. I saw one that was refinished black by Gibson in the 1960's with chrome ES330 pickup covers go for $3995 a few months ago. It really depends on condition - especially the finish, which was very subject to wear and greening - and originality. I would say $4000 to $5000 for one repaired or refinished, up to $9000 in excellent condition.

 

It went for more than I thought it would, $7200. The original price for the guitar in 1952 was $75, which would be about $650 in today's money. So if you were the original owner it would

be a good return on your investment.

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