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Gibson Pickups, on my Dot..which?


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Hi, just wanted to join in the discussions etc....I am too just thinking about doing the same mods but to my Sheraton - by replacing the stock Epi pick ups for Gibson 57's in both neck and bridge, but I am also a bit unsure as to whether it's worth spending the money and will I notice a big, big difference. (I am wanting to get my Sherry to sound as good as a Gibson 335 if possible). I'm not sure how good the stock Epi pick ups are in the Sheraton - so would welcome any advice or better still, as anyone already done this etc!!!!!!

 

Cheers

 

Paulocon

Please don't do it because I did. I don't expect mine to magically turn into a Gibson 335. But I have had this guitar a long time and it's time for me to try a change. I have no real beefs with the stock pickups. Especially when they are driven. I am hoping to get some cleaner tones. If it doesn't work, I also have a Agile LP copy, which is darned nice. And I can put one of these 57's in it too att he neck/

One reviewer on you tube said he liked the change on his Dot, but he felt he lost some "Growl" from the stock Bridge pickup. But gained more range. I can see that happening. Plus he plays with dome overdrive. I'm thinkin cleaner tones. From his video I can't tell much if any difference at all..lol.. But cheap video cameras don't do sound well so it's hard to say. I don't want to lose my growl. I hope I don't. But my bridge pickup on the Dot doesn't seem to have any range to speak of. I may put one pickup att he neck then try it. Save the other pickup I bought for later. I can add it to my LP copy if I like it on my Dot. WHen I talk to the tech who is going to do the work for me, I will ask him what he things also. I kinda "Binged" grabbing two of these suckers..lol

Good luck with your decision.

Here is the youtube video I spoke of, see if you can hear any difference. I can't.

 

Here is Gregor Hilden playing a Sheraton. He makes it sound wonderful

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Would it sound bad to have two '57s instead of just one '57 and one '57+? just curious. Was this the mics they had in the 60s? Or was there others?

I think someone on here already told me that its just a choice. I ordered tow classics, no plus. I'll see for myself when I get then installed. If I find its not a good fit, I will remove on classic and put it in my les paul (agile copy) and buy a plus to put in my dot. But someone here said I would probabl like the two 57's botht eh same no plus. I hope it good..lol

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Would it sound bad to have two '57s instead of just one '57 and one '57+? just curious. Was this the mics they had in the 60s? Or was there others?

 

 

No, that's what I've done; 57 & 57+....and others as well....as in an above post, Gibson puts two 57s in 335s..........It's a matter of choice..57+s are wound a bit hotter, but not by much.......most electrics have slightly hotter bridge pickups as a general rule.....As an above post says, I've learned that this school of thought can be different for semis...........................

 

I am no expert by any means....many other members are more knowledgable than I am....My 'thoughts' are from my experiences, are opinions, and should be viewed as such......I do own and play many many guitars in many styles, so I do know what I know............but that's all.........and I love 57 and 57+ pickups..........

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No, that's what I've done; 57 & 57+....and others as well....as in an above post, Gibson puts two 57s in 335s..........It's a matter of choice..57+s are wound a bit hotter, but not by much.......most electrics have slightly hotter bridge pickups as a general rule.....As an above post says, I've learned that this school of thought can be different for semis...........................

 

I am no expert by any means....many other members are more knowledgable than I am....My 'thoughts' are from my experiences, are opinions, and should be viewed as such......I do own and play many many guitars in many styles, so I do know what I know............but that's all.........and I love 57 and 57+ pickups..........

Now you have me confused again. You say you have a regolar and a plus? Wasn't it you tyhat said you can use two regulars? I ordered to of the regulars. I talked to my guitar guy today, he said he was going to put quick connectors on mine, even the ones that rare in the Dot now, that way IC an change them back if I want. I might buy a plus later if I'm not happy with just two 57's regular. I can always put on of the classic regulars in my LP if I'm not happy with the setup.

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Nice to hear another "Dot" who fan likes the big beast! What made me buy the Dot I picked out (of several I played) was the neck pickup. It was so sweet and strong and could produce that classic Clapton "woman tone" folks talk about. That and the neck of course. Love the neck and action on this guitar. The bridge pickup was only ok. I replaced the bridge pickup with a Classic 57 (not the 57 plus). I adjusted the pickup heights and they are really a good match for each other. The Gibson ES-335 has Classic 57's in both positions.

 

To each their own! The other mod was to replace the plastic nut with a real bone nut and get a professional setup. This guitar is awesome. Check out Amazon. You can often find Classic 57's for less than $100. (I have no financial interest in Amazon, Gibson, Epiphone,etc.) :-)

 

 

Yes you can use them in both the bridge and/or the neck. Many Gibsons come with '57 Classics in both positions, including the ES-335. The "Plus" is a little bit hotter than the regular one so a lot of people like to use a Plus in the bridge and the regular one in the neck. I think the 57 classic/57 classic plus combo is used more in solid bodies.

 

 

 

Yes they should fit right in. You'll need to do a little soldering. If you're not comfortable doing that yourself, you can take it to a professional and it shouldn't be that expensive.

 

 

Now you have me confused again. You say you have a regolar and a plus? Wasn't it you tyhat said you can use two regulars? I ordered to of the regulars. I talked to my guitar guy today, he said he was going to put quick connectors on mine, even the ones that rare in the Dot now, that way IC an change them back if I want. I might buy a plus later if I'm not happy with just two 57's regular. I can always put on of the classic regulars in my LP if I'm not happy with the setup.

 

 

Yes...as the above posts say, you can use two 57s, and one 57 and one 57+........When I upgrade, I do one of each, the 57+ in the bridge....I was unaware that Gibby 335s come stock with two 57s, which makes perfect sense to me......There is not always a need for a 57+ or a 'hotter' pickup in a semi-hollow guitar.....Remember, I own many many many guitars; I only upgrade them as I can afford and choose....I have a new Riviera with 3 P-90s which will get upgrades in the future..The new Epi Nighthawk I'm getting will have one pickup upgraded, and it will be a Seymore Duncan...I use ceramic pickups in ONE guitar, for metal tone..My Fenders have 'Tex-Mex' pickups, my Michael Kelly's need upgrading, some of my Epi LPs have 57 and 57+ upgrades, and some I keep stock...So, no worries......Two 57s in your Dot will make you very happy....I should have been careful about the Sheritan owner; I don't currently own one, but when I get another one I will upgrade to 57s.......And I will probably go with two 57s, and not one of each....So, no worries......When you get them installed, let us know what you think......I really want to grab a couple of the 57s at the current price, but I am strapped as well.......Three new guitars and more on the way have destroyed my budget beyond reason....................quick connectors sound like a good idea..................hope this helps...Damian...

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Nice to hear another "Dot" who fan likes the big beast! What made me buy the Dot I picked out (of several I played) was the neck pickup. It was so sweet and strong and could produce that classic Clapton "woman tone" folks talk about. That and the neck of course. Love the neck and action on this guitar. The bridge pickup was only ok. I replaced the bridge pickup with a Classic 57 (not the 57 plus). I adjusted the pickup heights and they are really a good match for each other. The Gibson ES-335 has Classic 57's in both positions.

 

To each their own! The other mod was to replace the plastic nut with a real bone nut and get a professional setup. This guitar is awesome. Check out Amazon. You can often find Classic 57's for less than $100. (I have no financial interest in Amazon, Gibson, Epiphone,etc.) :-)

 

 

Yes you can use them in both the bridge and/or the neck. Many Gibsons come with '57 Classics in both positions, including the ES-335. The "Plus" is a little bit hotter than the regular one so a lot of people like to use a Plus in the bridge and the regular one in the neck. I think the 57 classic/57 classic plus combo is used more in solid bodies.

 

 

 

Yes they should fit right in. You'll need to do a little soldering. If you're not comfortable doing that yourself, you can take it to a professional and it shouldn't be that expensive.

 

 

Now you have me confused again. You say you have a regolar and a plus? Wasn't it you tyhat said you can use two regulars? I ordered to of the regulars. I talked to my guitar guy today, he said he was going to put quick connectors on mine, even the ones that rare in the Dot now, that way IC an change them back if I want. I might buy a plus later if I'm not happy with just two 57's regular. I can always put on of the classic regulars in my LP if I'm not happy with the setup.

 

 

Yes...as the above posts say, you can use two 57s, and one 57 and one 57+........When I upgrade, I do one of each, the 57+ in the bridge....I was unaware that Gibby 335s come stock with two 57s, which makes perfect sense to me......There is not always a need for a 57+ or a 'hotter' pickup in a semi-hollow guitar.....Remember, I own many many many guitars; I only upgrade them as I can afford and choose....I have a new Riviera with 3 P-90s which will get upgrades in the future..The new Epi Nighthawk I'm getting will have one pickup upgraded, and it will be a Seymore Duncan...I use ceramic pickups in ONE guitar, for metal tone..My Fenders have 'Tex-Mex' pickups, my Michael Kelly's need upgrading, some of my Epi LPs have 57 and 57+ upgrades, and some I keep stock...So, no worries......Two 57s in your Dot will make you very happy....I should have been careful about the Sheritan owner; I don't currently own one, but when I get another one I will upgrade to 57s.......And I will probably go with two 57s, and not one of each....So, no worries......When you get them installed, let us know what you think......I really want to grab a couple of the 57s at the current price, but I am strapped as well.......Three new guitars and more on the way have destroyed my budget beyond reason....................quick connectors sound like a good idea..................hope this helps...Damian...

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Yes...as the above posts say, you can use two 57s, and one 57 and one 57+........When I upgrade, I do one of each, the 57+ in the bridge....I was unaware that Gibby 335s come stock with two 57s, which makes perfect sense to me......There is not always a need for a 57+ or a 'hotter' pickup in a semi-hollow guitar.....Remember, I own many many many guitars; I only upgrade them as I can afford and choose....I have a new Riviera with 3 P-90s which will get upgrades in the future..The new Epi Nighthawk I'm getting will have one pickup upgraded, and it will be a Seymore Duncan...I use ceramic pickups in ONE guitar, for metal tone..My Fenders have 'Tex-Mex' pickups, my Michael Kelly's need upgrading, some of my Epi LPs have 57 and 57+ upgrades, and some I keep stock...So, no worries......Two 57s in your Dot will make you very happy....I should have been careful about the Sheritan owner; I don't currently own one, but when I get another one I will upgrade to 57s.......And I will probably go with two 57s, and not one of each....So, no worries......When you get them installed, let us know what you think......I really want to grab a couple of the 57s at the current price, but I am strapped as well.......Three new guitars and more on the way have destroyed my budget beyond reason....................quick connectors sound like a good idea..................hope this helps...Damian...

I bet $10 I end up gettin a plus at some point down the road. It was just the extra $40 that kept me from doing it this time. I can see the quick connects making it easier for me to switch between the dot and the Agile LP, untill I get what I want. If I feel I lose something switching my bridge pickup out, I can put it back. I can also see me spending way too much on this hobby..lol.. I did the same with my motorcycles..lol

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HI all, so to summarize and put this to bed - Its ok to put either two 57's or a 57 classic and a 57+ in. But I still think it's a lot of money to spend if to me still only an amateur if I won't notice a big difference in sound etc. So my final question is this:- How good then are the stock pick ups in the Epiphone Sheraton's and Dots...would it be worth spending nearly £200 GBP for this upgrade etc!!

 

Cheers

 

Paulocon

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HI all, so to summarize and put this to bed - Its ok to put either two 57's or a 57 classic and a 57+ in. But I still think it's a lot of money to spend if to me still only an amateur if I won't notice a big difference in sound etc. So my final question is this:- How good then are the stock pick ups in the Epiphone Sheraton's and Dots...would it be worth spending nearly £200 GBP for this upgrade etc!!

 

Cheers

 

Paulocon

 

I asked that very question to my Guitar tech yesterday. he said back inthe late 60's when Gibson made dots they used the same pickups they did for the 335's. But the latter years, like mine (99 Korean) they didn't. And that adding a classic 57, it would indeed be a good upgrade. That was enuff for me to try it. It's gonna be worth it to me even if it's not a big change. Considering when I'm done I will have about $600 into my Dot. Which I already like a lot, and a Gibson ES 335 would cost what? In the neighborhood of $2500 to $3500?? Heck yes it's worth a change.

I also ride a Suzuki VL1500 Intruder Motorcycle. I have ridden 45,000 wonderful miles on some of the best roads in the country, and she's still going strong. Wonderful bike. It cost about 45% of what I would of paid for a similar Harley Davidson. My pocketbook dictates what I buy. My Dot is much like my bike, the best kept secret in the business. I love them both and get lots of quality use out of them. Each to his own tho.

I must have gotten lucky with my Dot. It's a nice guitar. I just wanted to change it up a bit ;o)

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Yep, I totally agree and until I do the upgrade...I will never know if it was worth it or not, now that's the conundrum!!!

 

I am also considering changing the plastic nut on my Sheraton to a bone nut also, so this might make a slight improvement too. So as we say in the UK - just suck it and see!!!

 

Let us know how you get on - after you have upgraded your Dot etc!!!

 

Cheers for all your concerns and as usual great advice!! (so glad we have this site)!!

 

Paulocon

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Hey Fella,

I am in the process of replacing the stock humbuckers in my Epi " Lucille ". I HAVE chosen the '57 in the neck and '57+ in the bridge. Are there better values of pots that I can use to finish off my Epi nicely ??? I have seen all sorts of values for the pots and would like to know what other people suggest to acheive the perfect " GIBSON " sound. Thanks for any and all input.

 

Jim

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Hey Fella,

I am in the process of replacing the stock humbuckers in my Epi " Lucille ". I HAVE chosen the '57 in the neck and '57+ in the bridge. Are there better values of pots that I can use to finish off my Epi nicely ??? I have seen all sorts of values for the pots and would like to know what other people suggest to acheive the perfect " GIBSON " sound. Thanks for any and all input.

 

Jim

Great question, I hope someone has the answer..lol. I'm gonna ask my tech when I take it to him. I have read where folks change out the epi pots. But it looks like a considerable amount of work maybe? I dunno. I have so much to learn. I hope the guys here jump back in. I'm taking mine in Saturday. I want to be armed with info. I am also wondering about changing out the tuners. WHy? I dunno..lol.. But they arent the best. I wonder what would be an affordable upgrade for the tuners? If any? I have lots more questions. Are you doing the work yourself?

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BigJim.......There are many folks here who REALLY know the pots and other upgrades.....I hope they pitch in now.....All I know is that 500 'something' is the magic number for Gibby pots....I need to stop at that, as I am in the dark for this stuff !!!!!!!!!!! Those who know ????? Help !!!

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I love playing lead stuff. And lately the blues. THe Dot is my favorite bluesy sounding guitar I own. But could it be better? Smoother maybe?

 

Neck: 57 Classic

Bridge: 57 Classic +

 

Should sound pretty sweet in a dot

 

Some players want a slightly 'louder' pickup in the bridge for leads......

 

Ya I'm just thinking for blues, it's not really about high gain. Think BB King ... didn't he use 57 Classics in neck and bridge?

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I asked that very question to my Guitar tech yesterday. he said back inthe late 60's when Gibson made dots they used the same pickups they did for the 335's. But the latter years, like mine (99 Korean) they didn't. And that adding a classic 57, it would indeed be a good upgrade. That was enuff for me to try it. It's gonna be worth it to me even if it's not a big change. Considering when I'm done I will have about $600 into my Dot. Which I already like a lot, and a Gibson ES 335 would cost what? In the neighborhood of $2500 to $3500?? Heck yes it's worth a change.

I also ride a Suzuki VL1500 Intruder Motorcycle. I have ridden 45,000 wonderful miles on some of the best roads in the country, and she's still going strong. Wonderful bike. It cost about 45% of what I would of paid for a similar Harley Davidson. My pocketbook dictates what I buy. My Dot is much like my bike, the best kept secret in the business. I love them both and get lots of quality use out of them. Each to his own tho.

I must have gotten lucky with my Dot. It's a nice guitar. I just wanted to change it up a bit ;o)

 

i am surely no expert, every time i changed pickups, i got a new neck and body as well. i upgrade the whole thing, i think there is more difference in the 335 than just the pickups... i think the tone is in the wood... i would also be concerned that changing out parts would hurt resale ?

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i am surely no expert, every time i changed pickups, i got a new neck and body as well. i upgrade the whole thing, i think there is more difference in the 335 than just the pickups... i think the tone is in the wood... i would also be concerned that changing out parts would hurt resale ?

I am sure there are more factors than just the pickups. I would be better off changing all the electronics too. That would make a difference. Amps? Of course, good amps make huge differences. I don't expect a pickup change to make my Guitar a Gibson 335 worth $3500. Not at all. As for hurting resale on my Dot. Who would buy a used Dot?..lol..You can buy a brand new one for $300.. Seriously I will never sell it anyway. it's mine. No one can have it...lol I buy things to own, I never think of resale. Casue I don't sell stuff. Some like the trade, they like the wheel and deal. I don't. I buy something cause I want it. If I don't like it, I might sell it, but I love my Dot. I think they get a bum rap. Mine is a beautiful guitar that plays not perfect but has pretty good action. The pickups aren't horrible, they actually have some great tones. I'm just lookin for a change and I hope it's an "upgrade". If I don't think it is after the install, heck I can sell the pickups. But the guitar is stayin no matter what. :o)

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i am surely no expert, every time i changed pickups, i got a new neck and body as well. i upgrade the whole thing, i think there is more difference in the 335 than just the pickups... i think the tone is in the wood... i would also be concerned that changing out parts would hurt resale ?

 

 

Which is why one should always save the swapped / upgraded parts............

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I'm probably wrong but I think BB King uses 2 Gibson 490's in his Lucille.

 

I think you're mistaking the "Gibson BB King Lucille Model" with the real deal. The Lucille model comes with 490R/490T for some reason, the original had 57's I believe. Either way, these are not "hot" pickups. [rolleyes] I don't think I've posted a single though here that hasn't been challenged!

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Oh boy....get ready for a long thread...You play guitar, have been for fourty years, and play by ear........You ARE a musician !!!!!!! Pickups are are an amazing thing to study, and even after studying them, choosing which ones for which guitar still comes down to personal preferance in addition to the specs and types of each pick-up.

This will be a long thread, and very interesting as well...Myself, I prefer Gibson 57s and 57+ pickups...But thats me...I also love P-90s, of which there are so many to choose from..I own more guitars than I can count, so, there are many pickups of all kinds and makers in them...Hopefully those who really know their stuff will pitch in with their personal choices, likes, dislikes, reasons why, discussions about magnet types, wire types, coil tapping and splitting, GFS pickups, Seymores, etc. etc...

For a dot, I'd pop in 57s, but, you'll see, some will agree and some won't.......Hopefully, you will learn a lot; I'm sure I'll learn a bit more as well...

 

Well I got my guitar back from the guitar guy TUesday. I had him install two 57' classics. (NO plus)

I am very glad I didn't get the plus pickup. Not needed on the bridge.

At first I was surprised at the Bright, almost too bright sound of the bridge pickup. It was too danged loud. THen I discovered the tone knob actually work now. I never used it much on the old Epi pickups. But now if I tone it down some the sound is great.

The neck pickup is fricken awesome. SO nice and smooth, not muddy at all.

I really can't compare these new pups to the old ones without having the old ones to listen to now. But I can feel the difference in my fingers. Much smoother and defined.

Are they a definite upgrade? I think they are. WOuld everyone think so? No, everyone has different opinions. Was it worth $200 plus installation, oh yeah. I love'em. They will take some gettin used to, but it's already happening. They are growin on me fast.

My tech had heck with the job tho. His issue was the difference in the size of te wires. The old wires were (and are) so thin compared to the new Gibson wires. he was installing quick connectors on these so I could change them out later. Every time he tried to clamp the connector down it just snipped the end of the wire off. He finally soldered a heavier wire tot ehthin wires and adding the quick connectors to the thicker wire. A pain the ***.

We talked about changin all the wiring,. Like I was told here, if you change the pickups, you should go ahead and change the whole setup/ I thik I am losing some tone by not doing so. But he didn't want to do that job, and I wanted to try it with just changing the pups. Dow the road if I find someone who can do it and wants to do it. I might get it done. But I am happy with what it is now. Much different than the old pups, and they sounded pretty good to my ears anyway.

Thanks to you folks that chimed in, I am very happy witht eh 57's. Very nice sounds, and it will only get better as I get used to them. WHoohoo! Well worth eh money. The Guntar places like a dream.

Thanks to all!

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I can understand your guitar tech not wanting to get into swapping pots on the Dot. Semi hollow bodies are a PAIN to work on. Everything has to come out through the f-holes. And go back in the same way. Requires planning and a lot of extra work for the guitar tech. But I am glad you are happy with the Classic '57's. They are a great set of pickups.

 

Rich

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I can understand your guitar tech not wanting to get into swapping pots on the Dot.

I can't. I wouldn't even call such a guy a "technician". Skilled techs have the experience and tools to re-do semihollow guitars expertly and efficiently. Of course, it would take longer and cost more than a solidbody, but that makes sense. Lots of DIYers are able to do it (me included), so I'd expect a paid tech to be able to do it, too, and do it better.

 

To the OP: I hope you're enjoying your upgraded Dot. And find a new tech.

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Well I got my guitar back from the guitar guy TUesday. I had him install two 57' classics. (NO plus)

I am very glad I didn't get the plus pickup. Not needed on the bridge.

At first I was surprised at the Bright, almost too bright sound of the bridge pickup. It was too danged loud. THen I discovered the tone knob actually work now. I never used it much on the old Epi pickups. But now if I tone it down some the sound is great.

The neck pickup is fricken awesome. SO nice and smooth, not muddy at all.

I really can't compare these new pups to the old ones without having the old ones to listen to now. But I can feel the difference in my fingers. Much smoother and defined.

Are they a definite upgrade? I think they are. WOuld everyone think so? No, everyone has different opinions. Was it worth $200 plus installation, oh yeah. I love'em. They will take some gettin used to, but it's already happening. They are growin on me fast.

My tech had heck with the job tho. His issue was the difference in the size of te wires. The old wires were (and are) so thin compared to the new Gibson wires. he was installing quick connectors on these so I could change them out later. Every time he tried to clamp the connector down it just snipped the end of the wire off. He finally soldered a heavier wire tot ehthin wires and adding the quick connectors to the thicker wire. A pain the ***.

We talked about changin all the wiring,. Like I was told here, if you change the pickups, you should go ahead and change the whole setup/ I thik I am losing some tone by not doing so. But he didn't want to do that job, and I wanted to try it with just changing the pups. Dow the road if I find someone who can do it and wants to do it. I might get it done. But I am happy with what it is now. Much different than the old pups, and they sounded pretty good to my ears anyway.

Thanks to you folks that chimed in, I am very happy witht eh 57's. Very nice sounds, and it will only get better as I get used to them. WHoohoo! Well worth eh money. The Guntar places like a dream.

Thanks to all!

 

 

There is a big smile on me right now Crow....I am so glad that you like / love the up-grade...The apparent 'brightness' is due to you not being used to the clarity of the 57s...I am also glad that other members suggested two 57s as to one 57 and one 57+......Your tone knob now works because the 57s have such a wide 'vocal' range.....

 

There are many members who are very knowledgable in certain areas, and I look to them for guitar advice....As Fringe Lunatic and others state, on-line advice can be touch and go...

I am very glad that this is an instance where it went well..............

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I can't. I wouldn't even call such a guy a "technician". Skilled techs have the experience and tools to re-do semihollow guitars expertly and efficiently. Of course, it would take longer and cost more than a solidbody, but that makes sense. Lots of DIYers are able to do it (me included), so I'd expect a paid tech to be able to do it, too, and do it better.

 

To the OP: I hope you're enjoying your upgraded Dot. And find a new tech.

 

Very well stated.......I'm still learning a lot about modding F.L.

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