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charlie brown

Here you go...cell phone/ipad or equiv. lovers.

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Not just phones and cameras...they're just the latest "consumer" devices.

ANYthing with GPS, can allow those that know how, to find us.

 

The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

By Adam Cohen Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2010

 

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway — and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

 

That is the bizarre — and scary — rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants — with no need for a search warrant.

(See a TIME photoessay on Cannabis Culture.)

 

It is a dangerous decision — one that, as the dissenting judges warned, could turn America into the sort of totalitarian state imagined by George Orwell. It is particularly offensive because the judges added insult to injury with some shocking class bias: the little personal privacy that still exists, the court suggested, should belong mainly to the rich.

 

This case began in 2007, when Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents decided to monitor Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregon resident who they suspected was growing marijuana. They snuck onto his property in the middle of the night and found his Jeep in his driveway, a few feet from his trailer home. Then they attached a GPS tracking device to the vehicle's underside.

 

After Pineda-Moreno challenged the DEA's actions, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit ruled in January that it was all perfectly legal. More disturbingly, a larger group of judges on the circuit, who were subsequently asked to reconsider the ruling, decided this month to let it stand. (Pineda-Moreno has pleaded guilty conditionally to conspiracy to manufacture marijuana and manufacturing marijuana while appealing the denial of his motion to suppress evidence obtained with the help of GPS.)

 

In fact, the government violated Pineda-Moreno's privacy rights in two different ways. For starters, the invasion of his driveway was wrong. The courts have long held that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their homes and in the "curtilage," a fancy legal term for the area around the home. The government's intrusion on property just a few feet away was clearly in this zone of privacy.

 

The judges veered into offensiveness when they explained why Pineda-Moreno's driveway was not private. It was open to strangers, they said, such as delivery people and neighborhood children, who could wander across it uninvited.

(See the misadventures of the CIA.)

 

 

Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, who dissented from this month's decision refusing to reconsider the case, pointed out whose homes are not open to strangers: rich people's. The court's ruling, he said, means that people who protect their homes with electric gates, fences and security booths have a large protected zone of privacy around their homes. People who cannot afford such barriers have to put up with the government sneaking around at night.

 

Judge Kozinski is a leading conservative, appointed by President Ronald Reagan, but in his dissent he came across as a raging liberal. "There's been much talk about diversity on the bench, but there's one kind of diversity that doesn't exist," he wrote. "No truly poor people are appointed as federal judges, or as state judges for that matter." The judges in the majority, he charged, were guilty of "cultural elitism."

(Read about one man's efforts to escape the surveillance state.)

 

The court went on to make a second terrible decision about privacy: that once a GPS device has been planted, the government is free to use it to track people without getting a warrant. There is a major battle under way in the federal and state courts over this issue, and the stakes are high. After all, if government agents can track people with secretly planted GPS devices virtually anytime they want, without having to go to a court for a warrant, we are one step closer to a classic police state — with technology taking on the role of the KGB or the East German Stasi.

 

Fortunately, other courts are coming to a different conclusion from the Ninth Circuit's — including the influential U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. That court ruled, also this month, that tracking for an extended period of time with GPS is an invasion of privacy that requires a warrant. The issue is likely to end up in the Supreme Court.

 

In these highly partisan times, GPS monitoring is a subject that has both conservatives and liberals worried. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit's pro-privacy ruling was unanimous — decided by judges appointed by Presidents Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

 

Plenty of liberals have objected to this kind of spying, but it is the conservative Chief Judge Kozinski who has done so most passionately. "1984 may have come a bit later than predicted, but it's here at last," he lamented in his dissent. And invoking Orwell's totalitarian dystopia where privacy is essentially nonexistent, he warned: "Some day, soon, we may wake up and find we're living in Oceania."

 

Cohen, a lawyer, is a former TIME writer and a former member of the New York Times editorial board.

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Nothing new, they can turn your phone on remotely if they felt like it. What are the odds that you'll be in some action style movie where you'll have to ditch your cell phone, go off the grid and bring down a corrupt corporation or the likes?

 

Be thankful they can sometimes incase you're kidnapped or held for ransom, or gone missing and they can triangulate your phone's position, the difference could be life or death.

 

I don't know, was that what the article was even focusing on? It was a little long and I only glanced quickly.

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So...its only for pictures you take with your phone?

Why is this legal?

First Amendment.

And legal agreements you sign in return for service.

You'd be amazed what all you waive...

 

 

Eh if its the goverment, im ok with. But random people?

You're okay if the goverment does this?

 

:blink:

 

Really?

 

One of the basic tenets of our Constitution is that our government can NOT do things citizens cannot.

Law enforcement matters are something else entirely - and NOT the case 99% of the time.

 

I happen to reside in Arizona, under the jurisdiction of the Ninth Circus - the most overturned court in the nation.

This sh!t never ends.

 

 

 

It's a damned shame that the Age of Innocence is truly gone.

Even to most basic electronic device betrays your privacy.

Turn it off, and there are cameras everywhere you go.

Make a purchase ANYWHERE - with cash no less - and there's a record of it.

 

Get sued for anything - your whole life goes to court.

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First Amendment.

 

 

 

You're okay if the government does this?

 

:blink:

 

Really?

 

One of the basic tenets of our Constitution is that our government can NOT do things citizens cannot.

Law enforcement matters are something else entirely - and NOT the case 99% of the time.

Privacy is slowly going away...its sad but true. No one can really do anything about this, what do i have to hide from the government? My coin collection?

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That's why I still use this for my pictures...

 

1970985909_7487d31e37_o.jpg

 

LOL...good for you, Rocketman! ;>)

 

Makes one uneasy, about all the photos, of our precious guitars,

we've downloaded, on this forum. [scared]

 

CB

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Eh, I have comprehensive security here at the Compound - electronic and "otherwise."

 

Not to mention the marauding Hell Hounds - and they're bored... [sneaky]

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http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=7621105

 

This should leave us all "Warm and Fuzzy," inside?

 

CB

 

You're surprised? [scared]

 

When you put it on a 'puter, there ARE NOT SECRETS. Get used to it.

 

 

 

 

Fourth Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

Surveying a person outside their home does NOT convey a breach of the 4th Amendment. Surveillance is neither a search, nor seizure.

 

I keep my activities above board and legal. If the Feds want they surveil me, then so be it. They will soon grow bored and move on to more interesting subjects.

 

They caught a producer of illiceit and illegal drugs. Hooray for the good guys! =D>

 

Your drive way and side walk allows the public reasonable access to your home for the door knocking and visiting. A cyclone fence is normally within reach of those with even modest means. In most jurisdictions, this provides sufficient security to require a warrant to breach, especially if locked. In most rural areas, private property is mostly protected, but depending upon the branch of jean-de-arms, this right of entry can be hazy. In Illinois, The Conservation Police have more latitude to enter fenced fields, groves and pastures than the State police or County Sheriff's police.

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Surprised(?)...No, NOTHING surprises me, anymore. Just thought it was interesting, and wanted to see other's reaction/feelings, on the subject.

 

The original news clip wasn't about computers, per se...which we've all known about, regarding information gathering, and privacy issues...but about cell-phone and camera installed GPS. Which are only the latest instruments. Every key stroke you make, is saved someplace, and can be "tracked" back, if needed/warrented. GPS, in Cell phones, maybe? But, in cameras? Or, in your Laser printer? Why?

 

I have NOTHING to Hide, either...so, from a Government, or Law Enforcement standpoint, they'd get bored, with me, too. And, yeah...

Luddite, that I am, I think it is a bit concerning, that we don't know WHO has access, and why? But, surprising...No, not really, given the world we live in, now.

 

*Can't wait, for the GPS, tracking tech micro-chips, required inserts, into our bodies, or at birth. Maybe, it will even include a "shock"

system, to zap us, when we're bad?! Or, how about a "life-span" chip,

to euthanize us, at a certain age, or...as our health deteriorates (whichever comes first), to cut down on long term medical care costs,

and keep the planet safe, from over-crowding? Or, possibly, it could

be used, also, to get rid of undesirables, like certain ethnic, religious, or political types. *(Yes, I'm being sarcastic, here)...but

for how long?

 

I have to say, I am amazed, at what we've (already) gotten "Used To."

 

What's next?! Probably don't EVEN want to know!

 

CB

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USA continues a steady slide to hell in a handbasket, and the public won't do anything about it. Bread & circuses, etc. The continuing erosion is such that there will be no 'straw to break the camel's back.'

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I deal with smartphones all day for work. I figure the government knows where I live and they know where I work and that's where I spend most of my time so if they're trying to find me it's a good bet they'll know where to look. It's really not something we can control.

 

 

Pretty soon it'll be like Star Trek, you hit your badge and ask where "so and so" is and Watson 2.0 will tell you where it is and what the capital of The Latvijas is.

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Surprised(?)...No, NOTHING surprises me, anymore. Just thought it was interesting, and wanted to see other's reaction/feelings, on the subject.

 

 

The "Surprised?" wasn't directly specifically at you but those who have yet to figure it out.

 

The original news clip wasn't about computers, per se...which we've all known about, regarding information gathering, and privacy issues...but about cell-phone and camera installed GPS. Which are only the latest instruments. Every key stroke you make, is saved someplace, and can be "tracked" back, if needed/warranted. GPS, in Cell phones, maybe? But, in cameras? Or, in your Laser printer? Why?

 

Cell phones, digital cameras, video game consoles, and some printers are defacto computers. They are just function specific. Unless you get an ipad. Cell phones have to have a positioning function, otherwise the network cant find it. But, digital cameras and printers with GPS? Who knows why? Time was, pre-paid cells were not trackable. It is my understanding that text messages and conversations, converted to text are stored somewhere..., except, time was on pre-paid phones. I'm not sure now. I have one because it is cheap.

 

Photo files on your computer have much data attached to them which identifies, time, date and serial number of the camera which took the picture, and now, I guess global coordinates of said camera when you pressed the button. For a professional, this is his proof he took the picture for copyright purposes.

 

Your car has an event recorder in it's brain box that generally records data relative to engine speed, ground speed, braking action, possibly steering input, etc. for the previous 30 - 60 seconds prior to an accident/air bag deployment. The manufacturers tell us it is for our own good to identify deficiencies in their automobiles. In practice it is used to protect the manufacturer. Police use the event files as evidence. Whether they have a right to this evidence without a warrant, is still being debated... unless we sign that right away as a condition of keep our license.

 

Your car can be tracked to where ever you drive it if you have OnStar or other service. Possibly even if you don't subscribe to the service.

 

This can be a good thing as if you conduct yourself in an honorable manner and you get cuffed, you probably have a pocket full of data proving you were elsewhere. Prepaid RF activated Toll Way devices, I-Pass and the like, have been used to both convict and exonerate their users.

 

I have NOTHING to Hide, either...so, from a Government, or Law Enforcement standpoint, they'd get bored, with me, too. And, yeah...

Luddite, that I am, I think it is a bit concerning, that we don't know WHO has access, and why? But, surprising...No, not really, given the world we live in, now.

 

*Can't wait, for the GPS, tracking tech micro-chips, required inserts, into our bodies, or at birth. Maybe, it will even include a "shock"

system, to zap us, when we're bad?! Or, how about a "life-span" chip,

to euthanize us, at a certain age, or...as our health deteriorates (whichever comes first), to cut down on long term medical care costs,

and keep the planet safe, from over-crowding? Or, possibly, it could

be used, also, to get rid of undesirables, like certain ethnic, religious, or political types. *(Yes, I'm being sarcastic, here)...but

for how long?

 

Oh... it's here. It is being discussed on an international level under the auspices of 'helping' us keep track of our own health history.

 

I have to say, I am amazed, at what we've (already) gotten "Used To."

What's next?! Probably don't EVEN want to know!

CB

 

Oppression that is applied quickly by force is fought against with zeal with tough resistance. Oppression that is applied slowly, insidiously, with a good story as to why it is 'good' for us is largely ignored or, as you say, 'gotten used to.'

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