Gilliangirl Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 On July 19 2010 we had a hailstorm to end all hailstorms. Biggest insurance claim in Canadian history. My roof is included in this. So the Insurance company sends out a company called ServiceMaster to assess the damage. They estimate that the roof shingles/felt/etc needs to be replaced, and it will cost $6700.00. No problem. The insurance company mails me a cheque for same. The roofing company guy shows up today and strips all the tiles off the roof. Then he rings the doorbell and says it's actually going to cost another $500.00 because some of the wood needs to be replaced. I said he needs to go back to ServiceMaster and tell them they missed that in their assessment. He says they won't cover it. Then he says 'Are you married?" I said 'no', and he gets this gleem in his eye, like, he's thinking he can get money out of this (ka-ching, ka-ching). After arguing with the guy for 5 minutes I told him to write me up an invoice and I will go argue with ServiceMaster. He said he couldn't do that but kept blathering on about the importance of extra wood around the perimeter of the roof. He says it's water-damaged. That may very well be, but shouldn't ServiceMaster have included that in their assessment? Anyway, I reiterated to write up an invoice. He finally mumbled something under his breath and walked away. If you're still reading this, what do you make of it? Is he thinking I'm an easy mark (I'm not)? Is this typical roofing/insurance crapola? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 If they're related to the US ServiceMaster, they aren't worth a shingle.............I'd have hit the roof as well...........He was adding to the ' overhead.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 If they're related to the US ServiceMaster, they aren't worth a shingle.............I'd have hit the roof as well...........He was adding to the ' overhead.' That's what it seems like to me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Since I cannot see your roof, there's no way to be sure about it. But, there's a very real possibility that there could have been rotted wood underneath the shingles, where it couldn't have been seen until after the tear-off. As far as $500 worth, you need to have details about exactly what, where and how much. It's standard for a roofing contract to have a clause about hidden damage and additional charges for time and materials. Read yours. Assuming the roofer is telling you the truth, I would think that the insurance company would not be responsible for pre-existing wood rot. And as for the "extra wood", that may be a desireable upgrade from how the original roof was - again, not the insurance company's responsibility. Even though roofers are known to be notorious ripoff artists, don't jump to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 Since I cannot see your roof, there's no way to be sure about it. But, there's a very real possibility that there could have been rotted wood underneath the shingles, where it couldn't have been seen until after the tear-off. As far as $500 worth, you need to have details about exactly what, where and how much. It's standard for a roofing contract to have a clause about hidden damage and additional charges for time and materials. Assuming the roofer is telling you the truth, I would think that the insurance company would not be responsible for pre-existing wood rot. Thanks for the reply Fringe. How would we know if the damage was not from the hailstorm tho" Especially if it's along the perimeter? The hailstorm was from last July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Thanks for the reply Fringe. How would we know if the damage was not from the hailstorm tho" Especially if it's along the perimeter? The hailstorm was from last July. Have the roofer show you exactly what he's seeing, up close. If it's rotted (you can easily push a screwdriver into the wood), it took way longer than six months to develop. I just had a roof put on, and there was extra-charge wood replacement necessary, which is not uncommon. The roofer showed me, told me what it was going to cost, and I approved. BTW, how old is the roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Fringe has the handle on this. In your neck of the woods, probably ice damming melt water up under the shingles around the perimeter of your roof over many winters is the culprit. Hope it works out for you GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks for the reply Fringe. How would we know if the damage was not from the hailstorm tho" Especially if it's along the perimeter? The hailstorm was from last July. GG, I would agree with Fringe Lunatic. What type of damage did the hail cause? I would suspect, though could draw no conclusions without seeing, that unless there was visible damage to the shingles above the rotted wood, the rot probably didn't have anything to do with the hail. Rot takes quite a while to occur especially on exterior grade plywood. When did you have your roof done last? If you have had recurring ice dams in the affected area that may be the culprit. I do think you are wise to question the situation. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 that is very common, and it is actually like fringe says. it is also common to have to replace some of the wood. i gotta run but i'll be back in a bit to get into more contract detail..but if you haven't already done so, what oyu sgould have is a list on the estimate of materiels and labor, that is how you protect yourself. if they arent already covering the roof, take a look and ask the workers what they replaced and have them show you, and count it up and confirm it with them. please exuse the typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 As for the roofer coming on to you, he's a pig. Talk to the owner about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Fringe, Kahuna, 57Classic and Stein... thank you for the responses. Much appreciated! The weather here in Calgary has been horrific this winter, and every winter really. We get frequent chinooks, so freezing/thawing/freezing/thawing ad nauseum. The guy did say it was the outside so I'm still not getting why this isn't part of the roof repair through insurance. I emailed the insurance company and the girl is on holidays until March 14. Well, my roof is now on my lawn so I can't wait til then. I'll call ServiceMaster tomorrow (they're the middleman). It just seems like the classic scam to me..... get the roof off and 'oopsy, you need to pay us more' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witmer Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Fringe, Kahuna, 57Classic and Stein... thank you for the responses. Much appreciated! The weather here in Calgary has been horrific this winter, and every winter really. We get frequent chinooks, so freezing/thawing/freezing/thawing ad nauseum. The guy did say it was the outside so I'm still not getting why this isn't part of the roof repair through insurance. I emailed the insurance company and the girl is on holidays until March 14. Well, my roof is now on my lawn so I can't wait til then. I'll call ServiceMaster tomorrow (they're the middleman). It just seems like the classic scam to me..... get the roof off and 'oopsy, you need to pay us more' I understand your emotional response, especially since he wasn't respectful of you as a person. But Fringe is right on with this one. The perimeter of the roof is exactly where you would expect to find water damage after years of freezing and thawing, and it's an important part of the job. Soft wood won't hold the shingles on in a bad wind, the new nails just make smush instead of holes when they go in. The consequence over time can be a roof peeling off in a storm, from the bottom up. I live in a pretty low-cost area compared to a lot of guys (I could buy four of my houses for what Caliman just paid for his) and I wouldn't bat an eye at an extra $5 for that much extra decking work. I hope it works out for you. =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but this is the guy to call in Canada. If it needs to be made right, Mike'll make it right. I think you got some good advice on the roof GG. If it's rot, there's no way of telling when it began. I'm going to be buying a new house soon. The roof is the first thing I'm having inspected next Monday afternoon. Yes the shingles on my roof look bad. I'm just hoping the plywood underneath is still good. If it's not and has to be replaced, I'm expecting the home owner to help pay for it. Good luck with your roof. And I'd certainly call the owner of the roofing company to complain about the perv they sent out. Like what was he expecting a little tit for tat trade on the side? Come on. That's no way to do business. I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything. So don't take that tit for tat comment the wrong way. Good luck and I hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 i'm in the us, so things may be a little different here. first off, there is no way he can charge you without a proper estimate and contract. now, is this roofing company hired by you, or servicemaster? if you hired them, you should already have a contract with them that would state any of this possibility of extra work, and they should already have the means to provide you an estimate at the time of asking you for money. if your contract to fix the roof is with servicemaster, and they are hired by them, they have no right to approach you with a demand to amend the contract unless acting on behalf of servicemaster, which really is weightless, except for a heads up that you would be billed by them. it is possible that as stated above that you will be responsible for any dryrot/damage that needs to be fixed in order to complete the repair, but if that is the case, they can not just charge you whatever they want. they have to provide an estimate of the cost, which will include materiels and a description of the work to be performed. (i can go over that in a bit, how to get the price down). if they have stopped work based on an assumption that you have refused to pay for this extra work, that needs to be adressed asap. hopefully the roof is covered and there will be no damage resulting from the wait, but you have no gaureentee that it will not incur more costs. if your contract is with servicemaster, they're absence in this matter until a week is not acceptable, and you should be giving them at the very least an email stating this. any delay from that point on their behalf that causes further damage will then be on them. if your contract is with the roofing company, the same applies. if they refuse to respond with a contract and explanation in writing, or do not continue work, you want them responsible for the delays and any damage from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 ahhh the joys of owning a home.... I think I have spent as much time on my roof or in my crawl space as i have in my living room... I think everyone has covered it pretty well. I'm quite surprised that the initial company ( or the insurance provider or the contractor) that provided the estimate didn't mention that if there were damages to the roof substrate that it would not be covered ( for their own good as well as yours) as it would be pretty impossible to predict what is going on underneath the shingles. Unfortunately that would be pre-existing damage which would most likely not be covered by the Insurance company as it is your obligation as the homeowner to ensure these things are fixed and maintained... That means inspecting for ice dams ( this is when water freezes and pushes its self underneath the shingles, then melts causing rot), keeping roof clean etc... Things you unfortunately have to learn as you go along.... It would be like having a tree limb crash through a big window on your house. The Insurance company sends someone out to asses the damage and provide a cost of repair. Then the repair company comes out and rips the window frame out only to find that all the wood around the window casing has been severely destroyed by termites.... Now the repair guy has nothing he can nail the new window casement to. The estimator couldn't see or know of the termite damage without first ripping out the window casement and the insurance company expects that you are paying for an exterminator and inspections to prevent that issue to begin with.... Unfortunately it doesn't sound like anyone mentioned this to you up front... As far as your roof it is amazing how interconnected everything is on a house and it really starts with a good roof. If your roof/shingles are not functioning properly the water doesn't flow as it should. This can lead to rot around the edge of the roof and water not draining properly into gutters, If the gutters are not working then the water isn't being carried far enough away from your foundation and then you end up with foundation issues which obviously leads to a slew of other problems.... It is mind boggling... and agreed the guy sounded smarmy!! Hope things work out for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I roofed when I was laid off back in the late 80s. I hardly knew what I was doing, but I was being sent out to roof houses all by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I roofed when I was laid off back in the late 80s. I hardly knew what I was doing, but I was being sent out to roof houses all by myself. OK, but didja get laid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My roof was damaged July 4, 2010 from hail as well. Some roofing companies are great, and others were completely scandolous. I do remember however in the roofing contract that damage to the roof "decking" I beleive they called it, was not included in their bid. Whether my insurance company would have covered it I don't know. In your case, the fact that the guy wouldn't document anything is complete B.S. It may very well be rotted, but any reputable company would be willing to put it on paper (and see if insurance will cover it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 GG, next time with these kinds of guys, tell them you have SIX BIG brothers.............. [thumbup] .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 First of all, since it's the Insurance Company that selected the estimator, Service Master, and are paying the bill, the Insurance company should negotiate with the roofer. Sometimes, roof deck,(wood under the shingles) damage can be hidden and cannot be seen until the shingles are peeled back. A competent roof inspector should be able to find and identify soft spots in the deck which need to be replaced. 6 months of rain and snow didn't do the roof deck any good if the shingles were significantly compromised. What was the delay in getting the repairs done? If it could be proved that, due to the hail storm the deck was damaged, or through no fault of your own, the repairs were delayed, the insurance should pick up the deck repairs. However: The fact that the roofer: A. Completely stripped the shingles off the roof before notifying you of additional hidden damage and the added cost. B. Asked you if you were married. This is an odd question for him to ask at this time. . i. The gleam in his eye, not withstanding, Karen, you're HOT. makes me think this guy is a scheister. Call your insurance man asap, as the next rain will make for much more extensive damage. Make sure your insurance guy knows your shingles are OFF and the guy skipped. I'd get a friend who is familiar with home repairs up there to take a look and get his assessment. If the deck is only discolored, but solid, Just felt it and shingle it. If the plywood/wafer board is soft, The soft sections will have to be replaced. You'll have to negotiate who pays the cost with the insurance company. But the clock is ticking since your house is not adequately protected from the elements as it sits. You'd better call in sick tomorrow and get the deck covered ASAP. We're talking wet insulation, soaked ceilings collapsing and buckled wood floors if you get a significant rain or snow. Yup, the de-roofer left you in a very vulnerable spot. Let me re-iterate, Karen, You have a serious bad problem that needs to be resolved tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sounds like your are getting scam to me. I don't know what the laws are for scammer in Canada, but I would find out before this guy gets away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Like others have said wood repair is common in a roofing job the way he brought it forward is not. If he wont write a invoice for what he's doing I would worry. Call your insurance company and Service Master and complain. If it's not too late go take photographs of what he's done and what it looks like. Bottom line is he might be right and your insurance might not cover it but thats there decision not his. Here in AZ I would call the register of contractors for an independent inspection if I thought they were lying even more if I thought they did a shoddy repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl M Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I would think that letting the company know that this is going to end up on the local news might be a motivating factor for them. You know, human interest story about how the big, bad roofer tried to take advantage of the sweet, little 'non-married' homeowner. Maybe it's a bluff...maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I would think that letting the company know that this is going to end up on the local news might be a motivating factor for them. You know, human interest story about how the big, bad roofer tried to take advantage of the sweet, little 'non-married' homeowner. Maybe it's a bluff...maybe not. Good call......That actually works; I've used it, and am currently using it again........ ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 THANK YOU SO MUCH for the replies. The work on the roof has stopped. They did not show up this morning and the shingles are sitting on my lawn, my roof is bare. The insurance company contact is on holidays and I'm going to call ServiceMaster and ask them what's up. The roof is about 15 years old I think. How it worked is my insurance company hired ServiceMaster to do an assessment. SM came out and did the assessment, claiming it would cost $6700.00. SM hired NIA Roofing to do the job. It was NIA Roofing who came to me and said there's an additional cost. <sigh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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