livemusic Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I love the guitar so far. My only concern is inserting the 5-pin cable into the endpin jack. I even saw a video of JB struggling to do it. It seems to me it would be easy to solve this... to make it easy to insert by feel, alone. All you'd need is a tactile guide, a ridge or something, to line it up right. Or, have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Your title is misleading and unfair. It conjures up an impression that Gibson engineering on the premium guitar is "sloppy". But what you are actually complaining about is the Trance Audio DIN-5 connector, which is also a well proven design for over 5 decades. You don't like it, but don't blame Gibson, it was Jackson Browne's mandate that Gibson install the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Your title is misleading and unfair. It conjures up an impression that Gibson engineering on the premium guitar is "sloppy". But what you are actually complaining about is the Trance Audio DIN-5 connector, which is also a well proven design for over 5 decades. You don't like it, but don't blame Gibson, it was Jackson Browne's mandate that Gibson install the system. Uh, it does not say Trance on the headstock, my man, it says Gibson. Is feedback on something valuable to a company? So there. Now, they know. If they read this forum. I have praised the guitar several times on this forum and other forums, I really don't appreciate your attitude. You don't have to talk down to me like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, let's see.....now you can't bring up fit and finish problems, customer service problems, Gibsons that sound bad that you tried in the store, and now it seems that even bringing up technical electronic problems is a new sacred cow. Man, you don't ENGINEER a guitar, you build one. It seems you can't even offer a simple statement that the connection to the pickup is badly engineered, without getting reamed by the Gibson apologists......The original poster is amazingly happy with his guitar as he has stated many times, the guitar that Gibson built. He's not completely happy with the pickup....so what? Why the knee jerk attack on this poster???? It's getting ridiculous in here.....this is a FORUM.....people can post their complaints and praise without getting personally attacked. Unbelievable....If you LIKE the pickup connection, then post your opinion....fine.....what is happening to this place??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I love the guitar so far. My only concern is inserting the 5-pin cable into the endpin jack. I even saw a video of JB struggling to do it. It seems to me it would be easy to solve this... to make it easy to insert by feel, alone. All you'd need is a tactile guide, a ridge or something, to line it up right. Or, have I missed something? That's unfortunate, especially on such a highly praised, and highly priced instrument. Maybe you could file a notch in the plug (or mark it) - not the port on the guitar, but on the cord so you can check that mark and push the plug in properly oriented. Kind of carelessly thought out - many such plugs use a dented or flattened edge to help with orientation of the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 .....what is happening to this place??? When looking deeper in the cards, there's obviously a dilemma to a forum like this. It's a fine line – and of course it is. We are visitors here. We are enthusiastic guests on a planet named G. Our hosts provide the playing ground (with built-in elasticity) – but they know what they have a'rolling. In this situation, I see one member raise a critical issue and another raise a defense. No shadow of big brother anywhere*, so hey wily, , , why this strezz. . . *Don't know much about Danner - apart from the burst on his SJ - but isn't he just a regular member. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 ... hey wily, , , why this strezz. . . . . . . . . Don't know much about Danner - apart from the burst on his SJ - but isn't he just a regular member. . . Opinions. In my opinion, when Gibson puts their name on it, it's their baby. This plug thing could've obviously been handled better. . . . <edit - I'm talking about he discussion here> +1 for Wiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 yeah its an interesting debate who's at fault when the pickup is not up to expectations. I can empathise with both sides but if say if my fishman pickup in my SWD didnt work would i be contacting Gibson or Fishman, most likely Fishman. But having said that on such an expensive guitar you would expect perfection, including pickup given its so non standard, so in this case i would be calling Gibson. But then again im a libran ... we can never make up our mind as we have to always weigh up both sides of the story .. :blink: Opinions. In my opinion, when Gibson puts their name on it, it's their baby. This plug thing could've obviously been handled better. +1 for Wiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 ... its an interesting debate who's at fault when the pickup is not up to expectations. ... I don't think the complaint was about the pickup per se - just the plug. Kind of a minor detail, but still annoying. And from his previous posts, I thought Livemusic really likes his JBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 When looking deeper in the cards, there's obviously a dilemma to a forum like this. It's a fine line – and of course it is. We are visitors here. We are enthusiastic guests on a planet named G. Our hosts provide the playing ground (with built-in elasticity) – but they know what they have a'rolling. In this situation, I see one member raise a critical issue and another raise a defense. No shadow of big brother anywhere*, so hey wily, , , why this strezz. . . *Don't know much about Danner - apart from the burst on his SJ - but isn't he just a regular member. . . For this post I received a little green +. That means I'm now - after having been up/down to minus 6 - neutral on my basic page. Who decides this. Who sprinkles these stars and spikes and where is the statistic/column where I can overlook what's been done right and wrong (and maybe learn). Nobody alarmed or told me when I received the - ones - I must have been bad and it just happened. And now I can't tell who gave me the -. Can someone please explain these lanterns of reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The members do. Just click in the bottom right hand corner of the post window (+) (-) That's what I did in post #7 - I gave Wiley a +1. Someone gave you a +1. BTW, nicely stated comment without getting nasty, so I gave you another +1. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, let's see.....now you can't bring up fit and finish problems, customer service problems, Gibsons that sound bad that you tried in the store, and now it seems that even bringing up technical electronic problems is a new sacred cow. Man, you don't ENGINEER a guitar, you build one. It seems you can't even offer a simple statement that the connection to the pickup is badly engineered, without getting reamed by the Gibson apologists......The original poster is amazingly happy with his guitar as he has stated many times, the guitar that Gibson built. He's not completely happy with the pickup....so what? Why the knee jerk attack on this poster???? It's getting ridiculous in here.....this is a FORUM.....people can post their complaints and praise without getting personally attacked. Unbelievable....If you LIKE the pickup connection, then post your opinion....fine.....what is happening to this place??? The OP posted a thread titled "Sloppy engineering, Jackson Browne Model A". When it was pointed out that the issue in question was a component supplied by someone other than Gibson, you come back with your knee-jerk attack - how dare he 'personally attack' the OP. Hello?! You are the one who keeps turning it into a personal attack. Your default operating mode is outrage at Gibson and outrage at any one who thinks your outrage might be just a bit over the top. This is a Gibson fan board. Get used to dealing with a few Gibson fans, even if you are not one yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The members do. So there's no way I can tell who is behind these pro/anti colours. . . A person can put me down without risking to face me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 . Yes. But the mods can see who did what - they're watching out for flame wars. There's limits - I think you can give 3 "+"'s a day and 1 "-" a day. I see Jerry has 2 "-"'s on his post #12. Some people are seeing that post in a negative way. <edit update> Hey, Jerry must've got a some of "+"'s, he's in positive territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 There's limits - I think you can give 3 "+"'s a day and 1 "-" a day. By my values it is somewhat cowardly, or at least bad style, to act negative behind curtain. But, , , enough of that - I suggest we just put it aside and strum an E-major7 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 By my values it is somewhat cowardly, or at least bad style, to act negative behind curtain. But, , , enough of that - I suggest we just put it aside and strum an E-major7 ! I'll give you a +1 for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm sure you will get used to it. Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Glad it's quited-down now. For a sec I thought I was over on the AGF............Are Gibsons perfect? No, but they're Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Man, you don't ENGINEER a guitar, you build one. I would say you do "engineer" a guitar. Look at Gibson in the 1960s. The folks putting them together did not know how to build a bad guitar. What they could not overcome were the design/engineering changes coming down from the top - adjustable bridges, thick pickguards, heavier bracing, square shoulders all around, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Uh, it does not say Trance on the headstock, my man, it says Gibson. Is feedback on something valuable to a company? So there. Now, they know. If they read this forum. Appears to me that you missed Danner's main point, which was simply that complaining to Gibson about it is a waste of breath, because Gibson can't do a thing about it. How is pointing that out "talking down to you"? JB insisted on the use of this pickup as a condition of Gibson issuing a signature model. Gibson didn't want to use this pickup. Gibson fought to not use this pickup. Gibson priced the upgrade so as to -- possibly in order to, for all I know -- strongly encourage you to buy one without this pickup, and have the pickup of your choice installed. I completely agree with your point about it saying "Gibson" on the headstock, but it's utterly irrelevant to what Danner was trying to tell you. This is Gibson's responsibility. No one forced them to issue a JB signature model. But, sadly!, the answer to your question above is: "No, your feedback is not really useful to Gibson." It's too late to be useful. No matter how distressed they are by your unhappiness, there's not a thing they can do about it at this point, beyond passing your suggestion along to Trance maybe. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, let's see.....now you can't bring up fit and finish problems, customer service problems, Gibsons that sound bad that you tried in the store, and now it seems that even bringing up technical electronic problems is a new sacred cow. No "Gibson apologist" has ever suggested that any of these topics is out-of-bounds. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 ... This is Gibson's responsibility. . . No one forced them to issue a JB signature model. ... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 BigKahune, Thanks for reading what I actually said! (Not that I'm anticipating problems on that score, but, based on previous experience with certain other participants in this thread, well ... .:)) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 . Sure. Seems like an issue that Trance could've easily remedied. Wonder if it's been brought up to them before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 This the talking down to that the OP referred to in his second post. I did not think what Danner is saying in the least, that this was somehow some misleading and unfair criticism of Gibson????? Un believable...Maybe Danner's interpretation of the Title is misleading and unfair??? Really, what I'm talking about is that it is impossible to write any complaint in this forum without getting attacked by the Gibson Apologists. Gibson is a big boy, they can take it. 107 years old, they have been through tougher times than a sole person who loves his Gibson guitar but is not impressed with the connection, and after having given great reviews of the guitar, STILL gets reamed, because he spent $6K and is not entirely impressed with the five pin hookup???? Yet the apologists come out of the woodwork.....In no way did he say the guitar was sloppy or anything derogatory about Gibson....all in the apologist's eyes.It is beyond me, that someone can spend thousands of dollars on a guitar and not be able to review it without being attacked. Look at the second post of the OP...he felt attacked and talked down to!!!! When I read Danner's knee jerk apologist remark I felt the same thing. And JerryK talking about outrage??? Don't make me laugh. Wasn't it you who ran away from this forum with your tail between you legs a couple of years ago, over one word uttered innocently by a moderator...swearing never to come back??? You have lost all credibility, when it comes to standing in judgement about outrage. And Rar....please, as you speak as though you were the Gibson representative in this forum, of course you can bring up these quality control issues, but get ready to lube up, because the apologists don't just add their opinion, they are masters of the "make wrong" as you see in Danner's first post. "Misleading and unfair????? " to who????? The fragile and sensitive Gibson corporation??? Please. Always with the "make wrong" always with the attack. Does Danner even HAVE a pickup like the OP is complaining about? Does he have the same guitar??? Do you RAR?? I think he has a valid complaint, but so what, he loves his guitar and will probably learn to live with it like all the others have learned to do with their complaints. Surely the apologists have made it clear that THIS FORUM is NOT the place to bring up issues (without getting attacked) and often Gibson customer support has made it clear that they are not a good place either. Let us clearly distinguish 'disagreement' and 'personal attack'. When someone disagrees with a poster's criticism and calls it 'unfair', that is not a 'personal attack'. It's a disagreement over facts or issues. The churlish post quoted above is a good example of 'personal attacks'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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