rar Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I think he has a valid complaint, ... Me too. Sounds like a terrible design. That's why I'd like to see him complain to Trance, so maybe it will get fixed. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Little tuft tilts big load – "I'd contact both." ~ King Salomon But as I understand it, there's no actual error here - It's a Q. about design and technical taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Me too. Sounds like a terrible design. That's why I'd like to see him complain to Trance, so maybe it will get fixed. -- Bob R Again RAR...you don't get it. By bringing it up HERE...the next guy might not order the Jackson Brown with this pickup. Saving a bad customer experience. The OP couldn't have been more gentle in his complaint....Look at his title of the post in the topic description he even wrote "I hate to complain on this git" He LOVES this guitar, and I appreciate his review. How did anyone get from "I hate to complain on this git" , to "Your title is misleading and unfair"??????? Gibson doesn't like the pickup, this owner doesn't like the pickup.....Don't you think that is valuable info for anyone contemplating buying this guitar???? I appreciate knowing things to look for when contemplating a purchase...I guess what I'm asking for in this forum is for folks to be tolerant of other's opinions and to be civil when commenting on other's posts, ESPECIALLY if they have a problem with their guitar. To post a problem with your guitar is NOT an attack on the Gibson name. If Danner had the guitar with that pickup and stated that he LOVED the pickup.....great one for/one against. More info for the next buyer. But to attack and defend just because you don't want anything said bad about your favorite brand.... I just don't get it. I have 3 Gibsons....I play them more than any other guitars, if it is possible to say, I LOVE my Gibsons, but I appreciate these posts that point out the problems AND the good points of the individual new guitars reviewed on this forum. You better believe it, when I look for a new Gibson, my eye and ear will be sharper because of what I learned in here. AND I appreciate, Rar, a lot of the wealth of knowlege you share in here, which also sharpens my eye and makes me a more knowlegable guitar owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 LOVE my Gibsons, but I appreciate these posts that point out the problems AND the good points of the individual new guitars reviewed on this forum. I'm with you here. No critique would mean no credibility. But are you sure Danner is that pro every single Bozeman-move ? Well, if he or anyone else is, in a sense that phenomenon would fit the bigger picture too : The 100 % loyal Forumite ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 By bringing it up HERE...the next guy might not order the Jackson Brown with this pickup. ... I think livemusic bringing it up here was a fine idea. I also think Danner pointing out the bad engineering was by Trance, not Gibson, was a fine idea. And also that Danner explaining why Gibson can't do anything about it was a fine idea. Even livemusic's response about the guitar saying "Gibson" on the headstock was okay -- that was a good point (although not really relevant, IMHO, to what Danner said). Three posts in, we had a very useful, informative thread going. Unfortunately, it took a turn south immediately afterward. :) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Wow, this tread. If I put a Trance Audio on my D100, whose "sloppy" engineering would that be? OP = Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Wow, this tread. OP = Fail. Why are you saying the Original Poster = FAIL ? Really??? First you say "Wow, this tread." Then you call the OP a FAILURE? Maybe OWF does have a valid point...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 . How about that NCAA Tournament. Some great games. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Why are you saying the Original Poster = FAIL ? Really??? First you say "Wow, this tread." Then you call the OP a FAILURE? Maybe OWF does have a valid point...... OK let's walk through this. Gibson doing a high end signature model, complete with detailed guitar specs like fancy wood and unique dimensions, etc. etc. Mr. Browne: I am specifing the Trance Audio pickup, I use it everywhere and it rocks. Gibson: Yes sir Mr. Browne we have them coming in from Trance for the project build. Gisbon: Installs Trance unit, including drilling the tail end and inserting the Trance connector. Gibson Engineer: Whoa boys, this Trance connector is kind of tricky, you have to look at it to orient the five pins, that might be too difficult for some of our customers. Could be considered "sloppy" engineering. Gibson Engineering Manager: Oh thank God you noticed that sloppy engineering. Get a Super Easy to insert connector set right away. Cut off the sloppy Trance unit, and solder on the new Super Easy unit. Problem solved. Meanwhile, back at Jackson Browne Studio: Hey Jacky, the Gibosn sig model is in, look at this beauty! Jackson, gimme that, let's rock! (Plugging it into his studio set-up) WTF!!!! This Super Easy connector doesn't even fit all my Trace Pre and pedal set-ups. Get the sloppy engineering f#¢Ks at Gibson on the phone, I am spitting blood!!! Meanwhile, back at Trance Audio Customer Service: (warranty service div) Guys, we are getting preamps and cables back from Gibson users, they need replacements, but none of the stock units will work, the dip$#!ts at Gibson Engineering changed the tail end connector to this Super Easy unit and none of your stock parts fit anymore. Trance Audio management: Screw Gibson and their customers, that total sale was a drop in the bucket, tell all those customers to call Gibson for warranty support!!!!! OP, therefore = FAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Anyone for pizza ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Anyone for pizza ... ? With the guys in this thread? Are you kidding? No one would be able to agree on which toppings to order... My 2 cents: The OP politely brings up an issue about his guitar, which he feels the need to discuss. Why shouldn't he? This is exactly the right place to talk about Gibson guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can always order one of those 'quattro formati' pizzas ....where everyone gets a quarter of the pizza with their own topics .. With the guys in this thread? Are you kidding? No one would be able to agree on which toppings to order... My 2 cents: The OP politely brings up an issue about his guitar, which he feels the need to discuss. Why shouldn't he? This is exactly the right place to talk about Gibson guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can always order one of those 'quattro formati' pizzas ....where everyone gets a quarter of the pizza with their own topics .. The pizza has to come from "Bad Boys Pizzaria" in Brooklyn. If it doesn't, I'm not eating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 OK let's walk through this. Gibson doing a high end signature model, complete with detailed guitar specs like fancy wood and unique dimensions, etc. etc. Mr. Browne: I am specifing the Trance Audio pickup, I use it everywhere and it rocks. Gibson: Yes sir Mr. Browne we have them coming in from Trance for the project build. Gisbon: Installs Trance unit, including drilling the tail end and inserting the Trance connector. Gibson Engineer: Whoa boys, this Trance connector is kind of tricky, you have to look at it to orient the five pins, that might be too difficult for some of our customers. Could be considered "sloppy" engineering. Gibson Engineering Manager: Oh thank God you noticed that sloppy engineering. Get a Super Easy to insert connector set right away. Cut off the sloppy Trance unit, and solder on the new Super Easy unit. Problem solved. Meanwhile, back at Jackson Browne Studio: Hey Jacky, the Gibosn sig model is in, look at this beauty! Jackson, gimme that, let's rock! (Plugging it into his studio set-up) WTF!!!! This Super Easy connector doesn't even fit all my Trace Pre and pedal set-ups. Get the sloppy engineering f#¢Ks at Gibson on the phone, I am spitting blood!!! Meanwhile, back at Trance Audio Customer Service: (warranty service div) Guys, we are getting preamps and cables back from Gibson users, they need replacements, but none of the stock units will work, the dip$#!ts at Gibson Engineering changed the tail end connector to this Super Easy unit and none of your stock parts fit anymore. Trance Audio management: Screw Gibson and their customers, that total sale was a drop in the bucket, tell all those customers to call Gibson for warranty support!!!!! OP, therefore = FAIL. EDIT: Mods, if you would like to delete this thread, it's alright with me. But, let me know how to easily line up the jack if you know! It is obvious to me that you and I are going to disagree about this. This is the most expensive guitar I've ever bought BY FAR. I have seen two people use this guitar. Me and Jackson Browne. Both of us struggled to get the cable inserted into the jack. I would bet that some Gibson people, upon trying to use it, experienced the same thing. Maybe I will figure out how to stick it in there easier (without having to turn the guitar awkwardly and look at it). I am timid to just twist and turn and hope I get it right on such an expensive guitar. I need to figure out a better way. Perhaps you or someone else can enlighten me. I would appreciate that. That is what forums are for. Gibson elected to run with it in a six thousand dollar guitar. It's not a deal killer (I don't think... only more gigging will allow me to arrive at the final verdict), but I wish it were easier and I do think it is sloppy engineering. We can blame it on Trance, yes, but Gibson incorporated it into THEIR (very expensive) guitar. Note that I am a Gibson fan. I have five, I just bought an old Gospel that is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 With the guys in this thread? Are you kidding? No one would be able to agree on which toppings to order... Brings to mind Abbie Hoffman's response to conspiracy charges in a Chicago courtroom - Plan a revolution? We could not agree on lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 "Perhaps you or someone else can enlighten me. I would appreciate that. That is what forums are for." How about a fan of duct tape - f.x. triangular shape/stamp size - around the wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 EDIT: Mods, if you would like to delete this thread, it's alright with me. But, let me know how to easily line up the jack if you know! It is obvious to me that you and I are going to disagree about this. This is the most expensive guitar I've ever bought BY FAR. I have seen two people use this guitar. Me and Jackson Browne. Both of us struggled to get the cable inserted into the jack. I would bet that some Gibson people, upon trying to use it, experienced the same thing. Maybe I will figure out how to stick it in there easier (without having to turn the guitar awkwardly and look at it). I am timid to just twist and turn and hope I get it right on such an expensive guitar. I need to figure out a better way. Perhaps you or someone else can enlighten me. I would appreciate that. That is what forums are for. Gibson elected to run with it in a six thousand dollar guitar. It's not a deal killer (I don't think... only more gigging will allow me to arrive at the final verdict), but I wish it were easier and I do think it is sloppy engineering. We can blame it on Trance, yes, but Gibson incorporated it into THEIR (very expensive) guitar. Note that I am a Gibson fan. I have five, I just bought an old Gospel that is awesome. I have no problem with the points of view anyone has taken with regard to this thread. There has been some good info presented. Still nobody has answered the OP question as to how to more easily plug the darn thing in. **What I do find sad is that this OP has to calm everybody's nerves by assuring the fans that he loves Gibson guitars before and after asking a question. Aren't forums supposed to be about the exchange of ideas and experiences? Some people act as tho the guitar in question came off their own workbench. Give the guy a break and maybe some information. I wish I knew the answer to his question but I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 ... Still nobody has answered the OP question as to how to more easily plug the darn thing in. ... Go back and read post #5 (page 1). I tried, but the fireworks side tracked the discussion. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Go back and read post #5 (page 1). I tried, but the fireworks side tracked the discussion. B) I saw that and commend you for trying to offer help but there must be an intended method. I wonder if the OP has contacted Trance? I apologize if this has been suggested to him already but as you stated things got a bit off topic for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol fred Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Jeez, I'm gone for a month and we're descending into anarchy. To quote Rodney "Can't we just all get along?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians356 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Having been both a professional musician for twenty years, then a systems engineer for another twenty (using every kind of electronic and optical cable and connector you can think of) it strikes me as a bit childish that people would slam a special guitar, and Gibson, because they find the standard 5-pin DIN that the Trance system uses to be a bit clumsy to orient. With all due respect: get a life. Take the extra two seconds to plug in the cable, take a deep breath, and play the damned thing ... if you can. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 ... it strikes me as a bit childish . . . . . . . . get a life. Take the extra two seconds to plug in the cable, take a deep breath, and play the damned thing ... if you can. ... Some would think a person with allegedly 40 years of experience as an alleged musician and an alleged systems engineer would be able to state a case without resorting to insults. It's abundantly clear why your reputation is in negative territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Bill, I think one reason you have not received a solid answer is because we aren't really sure what connector Trance is using. I checked their web materials an could not figure it out for sure. I'm betting it's a DIN-5, very similar to the MIDI connectors, but with a screw-on outer ring. Is that right? Assuming it is, you orient it by aligning it concentric, and rotating until the pins drop into the socket, and there is also a ridge and grove, but they aligned at the same moment the pins do. My suggestion is to connect the cable and let it hang in the natural playing position. After a while, the cable will take a natural bend that will becomes a pretty good guide as to which way it orients. With regard to my comments on your Thread title, I just can't help defending the engineers at Gibson. First, I love Gibson, and second, I was a line engineer for about 12 years. Everything is a trade-off in engineering and the engineer rarely gets to make things the best way they would prefer, but, you do the best with what you have available. And calling an engineer "sloppy" is tough criticism when you are the engineer at issue. I realize you didn't mean as harshly as I took it ;-) Cheers, and make mine a straight Italian sausage pizza please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I love the guitar so far. My only concern is inserting the 5-pin cable into the endpin jack. I even saw a video of JB struggling to do it. It seems to me it would be easy to solve this... to make it easy to insert by feel, alone. All you'd need is a tactile guide, a ridge or something, to line it up right. Or, have I missed something? As a person who 'uses' multi pin plugs of all types I feel your pain... That said a very small contrasting 'paint line' across the joined end pin and cable will act as an alignment reference its easy and it works to solve 'your' concern about sloppy engineering. If tactile is more desirable then visual try a very small "dot" of 'hot glue' on each side of the connection. Do it on the underside of the connection as most place their index finger on that side when connecting any jack to guitar I agree that this issue may have been over looked by both Gibson and Trance but like all things sometimes they need a little tweaking..jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Man, this place has really gone downhill. As ironic as it might seem, better discussions regarding Gibson acoustics take place over at the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. As far as the OP is concerned, I think sjl200's suggestion involving the hot glue makes the most sense. Good luck with your Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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