Bridge Annoyance

[PickyPick]

I have my casino with me (finally) and i tried to Intonate, but that seems impossible to do seeing that the actual saddle hit the very end of the bridge so i actually CANT intonate any further, meanwhile i tried to fit my old Gibson SG's Bridge which did fit, but had a slight flaw, Each of the Casino's bridge is at a different high i guess to accommodate for the fretboard profile. Which made sense seeing that when i put the Gibson Bridge on the Middle strings would always buzz while the 4 outer strings are way to high to be played. Anyway long story short what style bridge is this? and is there any other way i can possible intonate the guitar with this bridge before I'm forced to buy this type of bridge?

[RaSTuS]

The saddles have an angular face, looking in profile, one side goes to the top (a) and the ofther falls short then follows a 30deg or so path toward the top (B), if it's b that's hit the end you can take the saddle out and turn it around, that should give an extra 3mm or so of travel.

[tweed2]

The saddles have an angular face, looking in profile, one side goes to the top (a) and the ofther falls short then follows a 30deg or so path toward the top (B), if it's b that's hit the end you can take the saddle out and turn it around, that should give an extra 3mm or so of travel.

 

1+ on the RaSTuS solution. I had to do the same on the E, A & G saddles on my Casino to get it to tune up correctly. Now I have a little extra room at each. Pretty common problem with an easy solution.

[PickyPick]

now i gotta ask how do you remove the individual saddle... i see a little metal wire holding them down and i'm afraid i'm going to break it if i tweak around with it, actually never mind, all the treble strings are perfectly intonate nothing wrong with them. but ALL the bass strings are flat, and the saddle is already up against the edge with the flat side facing the edge...which would mean at this point i do need a larger bridge to accommodate this problem.

[RaSTuS]

now i gotta ask how do you remove the individual saddle... i see a little metal wire holding them down and i'm afraid i'm going to break it if i tweak around with it

That wire should pass through a groove on the screws head, simply with a small flat blade screwdriver, lift it out of that groove, with your other hand pull the screws head away from the bridge body, you can let go of the wire, then screw it right out, turn the saddle around, get the screw started back into the saddle, screw them through about 5mm, lift that wire again and push the screw into the bridge body until it goes in fully, the bridge has a small recess in the far end the screw rotates in, so you may have to jiggle it a bit, release the wire back into the groove once the screw is in place,

[rdsmith3]

I just went through the same procedure that rastus described, with both my Dot and my LP, and it is quick and simple. Just be careful as that little wire is springy and it may jump away from you.

 

Also, do you intonate while the guitar is in playing position? I think that is the preferred way.

[RaSTuS]

I should have added that the wire only has to be moved far enough to clear the head of the screw you want to remove..

[amx05462]

that wire pops right out on the ends switch around what you want to the pop it back in place. its function is to keep the saddles from falling out when the strings are off.

[RaSTuS]

that wire pops right out on the ends switch around what you want to the pop it back in place. its function is to keep the saddles from falling out when the strings are off.

If the wire pops out then you can rotate all the saddles you wish to in one go, the wire is reasonable easy to reinstall,

[strat-o-steve]

Also check your neck relief and string height. Too much relief can effectively shorten your scale length, and too high of a string height can cause your fretted notes to go sharp. Both will cause intonation problems ;)Before trying to take apart your bridge and saddles, try straightening the neck or lowering the string height ( or both! ) and see if that helps give you the adjustment wiggle room you need! :D Good luck

[vomer]

PickyPick, I'd try new strings first. The ones that came with the guitar could be old, and beyond the possibility of intonating. It might not be the bridge.

 

 

 

 

[PickyPick]

Also check your neck relief and string height. Too much relief can effectively shorten your scale length, and too high of a string height can cause your fretted notes to go sharp. Both will cause intonation problems ;)Before trying to take apart your bridge and saddles, try straightening the neck or lowering the string height ( or both! ) and see if that helps give you the adjustment wiggle room you need! :D Good luck

 

Actually this worked out very well... i asked the previous owner what strings he had on and it was an 11 Gauge... i guess putting on 9 gauge did bow the neck a little bit, but with the bridge saddle backed up ALL the way against the bridge... its still Flat... and only the Bass side of the guitar is Flat... the 3 treble strings are still intonated perfectly...

 

PickyPick, I'd try new strings first. The ones that came with the guitar could be old, and beyond the possibility of intonating. It might not be the bridge.

 

Actually the first thing i did to the guitar when i bought it was take out the old strings and put new Gibson 9's on it, and tried to switch the bridge from the Stock Epiphone to the former Gibson SG bridge i had... although it didnt work very well...

[bigneil]

If once the neck and string height are set, if it still wont intonate then try heavier strings. 10s or 11s are standard gauge on those guitars. .. if that doesn't work, or if you prefer to stick with the 9s then you may have to buy an after market bridge with more travel for the saddles.

[PickyPick]

I actually figured out a problem, but it seems that every time i figure out a problem another one arises which is becoming annoying. Anyway the way i solved the first problem was the bridge was actually tilted back (towards the input jack) about 1 to 2 degrees... i straightened it out and the entire Bass side of the strings were now within reach of being intonate, and of course in the process the Treble strings also lost their intonation (if that makes sense) but they were also easy to intonate again. Anyway the 2nd problem is, is the bridge SUPPOSED to be that loose, that it could shift 1 or 2 degrees either direction? Its an old 2003 Made in Korea (Peerless) Casino... perhaps the factory or that time era something was up with the bridges?

[tweed2]

When I got my Casino, I took it to my tech to go over it and set it up. He told me that he'd seen some of these (and other Korean gitars) with kinda sloppy machining on the bridge height adjusting wheels that could possibly create some of what you're experiencing. He had a cool little trick that really stabilized the bridge. If yours feels a little loose, and you don't want to go through the whole changing posts, etc, you can try it. He took the wheels off and set them on something solid (like a vise). Take a ball peen hammer and place the rounded side over the hole and strike that hammer with another. Doesn't have to be real hard. Do both sides of both wheels and it tightens up the threading inside and will snug down on the posts and not wobble or move any more. It was a little hard to watch him do it (my new baby!), but it made a world of difference and didn't cost a thing. Might help out with what you're dealing with.

[RaSTuS]

He took the wheels off and set them on something solid (like a vise). Take a ball peen hammer and place the rounded side over the hole and strike that hammer with another. Doesn't have to be real hard. Do both sides of both wheels and it tightens up the threading inside and will snug down on the posts and not wobble or move any more.

An old fitter/machinists trick,

[PickyPick]

Well the thing is, its not the actual wheel thats loose but the entire post all together... the Whole posts move 1 degree either direction... so i may have to find new posts that fit inside the slot but right now its ok the string tension is keeping it in its place just when i get new strings its going to move around and im going to either 1) readjust it after the strings are tensioned or b just replace the post and bridge all together... now seeing this is a completely hollow body guitar im assuming its not going to take any bridge like the Nashville tune o matic or TBR 1 style bridges... in fact what im curious about is whats holding this bridge up from completely imploding my guitar? are there 2 wooden struts underneath thats holding up the bridge?

[bigneil]

Well done sir, for getting right to the root of the problem.

 

You can, as you say, buy a replacement bushes posts and bridge, but there is another possible fix that you may want to try. If the movement is occurring because there is too much play in the screw thread on the bottom of the post where it screws into the bushing, then some plumbers PTFE tape wound round the screw threads will tighten it up. Or if the movement is occurring because the bushing has wiggle room to move inside the wooden hole, then you can take it out and put in a thin wooden shim of some sort to wedge it tight, a wood shaving or a matchstick or something like that would do.

[PickyPick]

Well done sir, for getting right to the root of the problem.

 

You can, as you say, buy a replacement bushes posts and bridge, but there is another possible fix that you may want to try. If the movement is occurring because there is too much play in the screw thread on the bottom of the post where it screws into the bushing, then some plumbers PTFE tape wound round the screw threads will tighten it up. Or if the movement is occurring because the bushing has wiggle room to move inside the wooden hole, then you can take it out and put in a thin wooden shim of some sort to wedge it tight, a wood shaving or a matchstick or something like that would do.

 

actually that suggestion about plumbers tape was brilliant... i took the strings off and tried it although it required a little trial and error i didn't want to put too much to a point where it was going to get jammed but not too little where it still wiggles... nonetheless! it was a great fix now the bridge is actually stable under tension or not under tension :D thank you for that