DAS44 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 What I generally do, is jam, over improvised rhythm tracks. I frame my own songs around those, they're more often than not just random riffs that I have done jamming and loved. I've started to let my mind run through it all and play it once over, listen to it played back, and try to learn from it. I'll try to incorporate a certain flavor, from a musician I love. Usually that's what happens, sometimes I'll be trying to play jagged lines of notes like Thelonious Monk, and the next moment I'll be going for something Hendrixy. Usually it stems from a certain lack of attention span. I find it easier to write my own stuff, than to learn other peoples'. That being said a good, unique cover is never a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 In the 90's I was all about originals and improv jamming. After a while that scene fizzled in favor of Raves and Techno Dance stuff, so I went with my first love, rock and blues. "Writing" originals for Improv and Jam is pretty easy and fun, there's a few bits of structure, some ques and breakdowns to go over then everybody's playing. With Rock writing originals is a lot harder and less fun, there's a lot more structure and arranging. Because of that there's also more animosity and inflexibility as members songs get rearranged beyond their control. So after working for a year with an original band you can have a ten song set list (assuming the songs are songs, not a chord run repeated for 5 minutes). In a cover band you can have Five 45 minute sets ready and practiced in a year. Songs that are really good, tried and tested in decades of different marketing atmospheres. Then you have the inevitable personnel change, let's say the drummer quits. You either need a new drummer who's willing to copy this other guys stuff, or you need to start over from scratch with this new drummer. Allowing him to put his stamp on all the material you've been working on for the last year, minus the stuff the last drummer wrote. Cover band just needs to give the new drummer a couple cds and have a few weeks of rehearsal. Assuming your original band has survived the personnel change, it's time to get out and show off your product (not even gonna say "Sell" because money shouldn't enter into the picture yet). 10 band lineups with one headliner, you gotta get out there and sell ticket just to get your ranking. Whoever sells the most gets to pick their spot. That's right, you gotta start hustling and shilling for the headliner. Cover band has to get on the phone to venues that have cover bands and start selling "themselves". Now for the pay off, originals get the satisfaction of people enjoying your art, singing your lyrics back at you, and the potential Jack Pot of hitting it big, getting a record deal and being the headliner. Cover Band gets more of an Entertainers satisfaction of a good show and a job well done, made apparent by the audiences reaction, and the possible jack pot of landing a House Gig or even a Back Up band for a big name, possibly making a living doing what you love. What I wouldn't have given for someone who "got" this in the '80s. All I could find were people who wanted to play covers (Yeah man, we're gonna break big... let's play "Detroit Rock City"... you know Smoke on the Water?) It's what eventually drove me to quit and go into IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hey Charlie, I do mostly covers in my band "Geezer". We used to play some originals back in the day, about 4 of them. Working on "restoring them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Pulling my second CD together so it's mostly writeing and produceing my own work. I play old songs that I know when I'm trying to let my head rest from putting it together. I'm hopeing for a better reseption to this CD then the last one. So I'm putting more thought into the song's this time I love your first C.D............It rocks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I'm only doing originals these days......and collabs......been busy............................. The only covers I'll do these days is to start a Kimbabig cover band !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " Cause he rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I've been published, been on the radio, played stadiums, blah blah blah, ...........who cares ????? I just want to live now and record new music....all new...........It's good stuff......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner 13 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I'm a writer, but I love doing covers too Agreed covers can be a real blast, especially if it's cross genre. like a hardcore version of say Kelly Clarkson's since you been gone. Radar Love is one of my fave covers to play, but we keep it to one cover in the set. These days it's Please gimme something, by Johnny Burnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I'm only doing originals these days......and collabs......been busy............................. The only covers I'll do these days is to start a Kimbabig cover band !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " Cause he rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I've been published, been on the radio, played stadiums, blah blah blah, ...........who cares ????? I just want to live now and record new music....all new...........It's good stuff......... What band?? Would love to hear your stuff :) I picked up Chrisdude's CD "Holy Rage" for Xmas. I'm finding the GF to be a gold mine for good music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Mostly covers and re-interpretations of songs my mostly baby-boomer audience knows by heart. At one time, when I was much younger, I wanted to play "Art Music" - jazz and originals. But I found out very quickly that the jazz cats held down a day job so that they could play "art music" one day a week (usually Sunday or Monday) for less money per person than the commercial bands were playing. To me, having a day job to support my art music habit was unacceptable and a complete sell-out to corporate America. Good for others, but I wanted to do music and nothing but music. So I switched to Rock, mostly covers, which I also enjoy. Also a sell-out in a way, but a very good one for me. As I grew up, I played for younger folks for a while, and then reverted back to my Baby-Boomer generation. I found the money is better, the hours better, the crowds more appreciative a the ability to have a song list that actually grows. When doing top40, you constantly learn new songs and in a couple of months nobody wants to hear them again. With the older crowds, we are playing memories, so we don't lose the songs we learned last year, we just add new ones. I'm approaching Senior Citizen status sooner than I would like, and I have made my living doing music and nothing but music for most of my life. I had a couple of day gigs while testing the other side of life but they didn't agree with me. Although I'd have made more money as an Electronics Engineer, I'm very happy that I chose to be a professional musician. A wise man once said, "If you make a living doing something you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life." And other than those day gigs I had, I've never worked a day in my life. They don't call it playing music for nothing! Notes ♫ Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 GREAT terminology... "re-interpretations"! THAT's what I do to my covers... I re-interpret them to be more suited to my playing style :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 GREAT terminology... "re-interpretations"! THAT's what I do to my covers... I re-interpret them to be more suited to my playing style :) I think we all do that, whether we intend to, or not? LOL CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think we all do that, whether we intend to, or not? LOL CB Well... it HAS been pointed out before that, even when I am trying to play it exactly as recorded, I make subtle changes.... So I've just learned to embrace that and go with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I play, with a local "Geezer" band, and we do mostly "cover" songs, with varying degrees, of success. (Smile) But, I write lyrics, and mess around (at home) with chord progressions, and "tunes," for them. However, my band mates, don't seem (at all) interested in doing "original" material (even their own), for some odd reason. Too much trouble, I suppose, with precious little chance of anything "happening" with those kinds of songs. Weird, I guess...but, if you were here, it might/would be more understandable...maybe? LOL Anyway...what do you, or your band, do? Have you been published, or recorded? Edit: And, do you play out, or mostly for your own enjoyment, at home? CB I've been published. But as an author, not as a songwriter. I've done recordings, but nothing that would be recognizable or that made any impact (that I'm aware of) I've been in 2 videos.... does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 What I wouldn't have given for someone who "got" this in the '80s. All I could find were people who wanted to play covers (Yeah man, we're gonna break big... let's play "Detroit Rock City"... you know Smoke on the Water?) It's what eventually drove me to quit and go into IT. This problem drove me to play with Old Guys. The first band I was in I was 5 years younger than everybody else, and they still acted like a bunch of kids. The next band I was 10 to 15 years younger than everybody else, that was the most comfortable band I'd been in until the one I'm in now. I think that's partly because my peers are finally as old as the guys I started playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Gah! I should have thought of that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpanda Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I do all 3, but I tend to perform mostly covers, I only perform originals if I feel really good about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Gah! I should have thought of that!!! It helped a lot with discipline, too. For the most part I really liked what the older guys were playing, but I had to learn some stinkers, too (from my perspective). Like "Spooky" and "Stormy" by Classics IV, we did a few of those Jazzy Easy Listening 60's hits. Thank god for Cream and Credence, and they gave me a couple SRV tunes to placate my youthful angst. Learned a lot about cooperation and playing to your strengths from those guys I do all 3, but I tend to perform mostly covers, I only perform originals if I feel really good about them I'm glad you said this, 'cause I wasn't sure how to bring it up without sounding Cheeky. So many new bands fly out of the garage with a handful of cheesy riffs and half hearted lyrics and call themselves an Original Band. Thinking they know exactly what makes a good song, but they never took the time to learn a few of the masters songs. How is a new songwriter supposed to gauge his progress if they never learned any of the songs that existed before them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'd played in a lot of cover bands before trying to find some folks to do the original thing. We got GREAT responses from the folks who heard them... ( "man I know you said you were in a band, but I didn't know you meant a BAND...!") but just couldn't find the right people. I'd have been ok with covers if they'd wanted to do them our way... but it was soooooo karaoke. Btw, never did hear from Damian about his band and the radio stuff.... anyone else out there got a CD out that I could find and add to my collection?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'd played in a lot of cover bands before trying to find some folks to do the original thing. We got GREAT responses from the folks who heard them... ( "man I know you said you were in a band, but I didn't know you meant a BAND...!") but just couldn't find the right people. I'd have been ok with covers if they'd wanted to do them our way... but it was soooooo karaoke. No question about it, a good cover band must make the audience feel like they heard it live, not like they heard the record or a karaoke version. To do that you have to serve the song as well as yourself. Put your own spin on it, but not so spun it sounds pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm glad you said this, 'cause I wasn't sure how to bring it up without sounding Cheeky. So many new bands fly out of the garage with a handful of cheesy riffs and half hearted lyrics and call themselves an Original Band. Thinking they know exactly what makes a good song, but they never took the time to learn a few of the masters songs. How is a new songwriter supposed to gauge his progress if they never learned any of the songs that existed before them? There is the fact that songs need time to mature and burn in, but playing them out live is the ultimate smoke test. That will tell you if the riff, arrangement, or song itself will float. I do think you are putting too much on learning old songs. I have stolen more arrangements than I can count without ever learning the song. Song writing is not rocket science. You just have to listen. However, I do agree there are a lot of craptastic bands out there mindless strumming chords or doing tired twelve bar blues arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There is the fact that songs need time to mature and burn in, but playing them out live is the ultimate smoke test. That will tell you if the riff, arrangement, or song itself will float. I do think you are putting too much on learning old songs. I have stolen more arrangements than I can count without ever learning the song. Song writing is not rocket science. You just have to listen. However, I do agree there are a lot of craptastic bands out there mindless strumming chords or doing tired twelve bar blues arrangements. I don't mean to over emphasize the benefits of "Learning Old Songs", but to avoid learning songs in an attempt to stay "Pure" just doesn't make sense(yeah, totally my opinion). It's a matter of give and take, appreciating where it all comes from and giving homage to who made you want to do what you do. The way I look at it, if I never learned someone elses song, then I wouldn't deserve to have someone else learn one of my songs. That's not saying everyone should learn 5 hours of covers, but they should respect where it's coming from. It's also a matter of having common ground to play from. Granted that twelve bar blues has been played to death, but there's no better way to break the ice with other musicians than jamming a twelve bar blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There is also the two edged sword of "has it been done before/this worked well for "x" in "y" song". Good reasons for being well versed in existing material, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Eh...for me, since i'm just playing and writing for myself, though I do share with people online, i'm not so worried about "knowing where it came from"... I've always been a "you play what you play and I'll play what I play" kinda guy... I don't think you need to know how to play "X" song or "Y" group of songs to be able to write your own material. I know plenty of folks who play lots of covers but can't write a song to save their life, so it doesn't always work like that. I have listened to many hundreds of thousands of songs and that's how I have learned what works and what doesn't. If it sounds cool to me, it will sound cool to someone else (if only 1 other person lol)... Depends on the person I say...there shouldn't be judging around this idea. If you like playing covers, go for it...if you like writing your own tunes, sweet business. If you like doing both, then good on ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I think it is important to have a balance of original and cover stuff. Doesn't have to be a straight up cover, but something that people will recognize. I love to play my own stuff, but a lot of it, I don't necessarily know if people will enjoy. They will be a lot more forgiving if you throw in a song they can at least kind of relate to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There is also the two edged sword of "has it been done before/this worked well for "x" in "y" song". Good reasons for being well versed in existing material, imho. That's right, you don't want to accidentally write "Needle and the Damage Done" or the "Kit Kat Song". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 You can still avoid that by listening to said songs....don't need to know how to play em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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