GIBSON KNIGHTS Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi there, I have found two very nice J200 guitars.. one is Sunburst and the second one like Red from the same owner but the problem is that they are showing wood cracks.. how concerned should I be.. 'cause he had them for 12 years along with Taylor guitars that he doesn't want to part with.. I asked him to see those Taylor and if they had been in the same room as J200 and he confirmed that all of his guitars were in the same room.. he said it's just Gibson J200 that develop wood cracks/lines over the years.. and now I'm nute sure how concerned should I be or what should I do to make it better because they look new as if he didn't play them much.. but the cracks are still there.. any thoughts/help appreciated!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 There are cracks, and then there are cracks. Some cracks are finish cracks or alligatoring Some cracks a cracks in the wood where the annular rings pull apart. The former are a badge of patina of honest wear and not considered a flaw. These cracks' do not generally extend across the entire guitar, but rather exhibit a squarish pattern and do no extend into the wood. The latter needs to have the cracks glued, closed up and cleated on the back to reinforce. Before you buy, have a competent luthier give you an estimate on the cost to repair. Then, negotiate the selling price accordingly. wood cracking is normally attributed to drying out, being exposed to extremes of temperatures and age. Most likely, though, it's suffered some sort of neglect. The Taylor he has may have just been lucky. Or... is it made of laminated wood? If so, nothing short of a ball pein hammer will separate those wood fibers. There is another type of crack that manifests itself in a couple to a hand full or long cracks extending, at times from one end/side of the guitar to the other. They are random and conchoidal... i.e. it looks like a cracked window pane. These cracks do not extend into the wood either. This type of cracking is caused by sudden changes in temperature, as in coming into a warm home from becoming freezing cold either in the hold of an air plane or in the trunk of a car. This type of cracking does not generally affect tone, but due to the neglectful nature of the cause, it devalues the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIBSON KNIGHTS Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Tommy thank you for your prompt and valuable response!!! I'm not that experienced enough in terms of evaluating those wood cracks.. but would like to ask you if I take few pictures of both guitars would you be able to narrow down in which category do those cracks belong to..? so I can see if it's worth negotiating further.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devellis Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Personally, I don't consider finish cracks to be normal, a badge of honest wear, or not a flaw. I have a few instruments that are over 100 years old, well played, and that don't have that sort of cracking. Normal wear, in my experience, doesn't result in cracking, although there will often be finish wear, some dinging, pick scratches belt buckle rash on the back, etc. But I do agree that some cracks are more worrisome than others. Cracks along the grain line are often splits through the wood that arise from excessive dryness. Finish cracks have no reason to follow the grain (if they're true cracks). They tend to run in any direction and not to be straight, so random, irregular, curving, or lateral "cracks" probably are more likely to be in the finish than in the wood. Most Taylors are solid wood, so I don't suspect that that's why they're crack-free. It might be that the big Gibsons have wider tops (which they do) and this, if nothing else, creates more real estate for a crack to occur. Some apparent cracks can actually be finish shrinking and sinking into the grain along a linear path. Top cracks aren't the end of the world, but they're not a good thing, either. They're indicative of faulty materials, faulty workmanship, or faulty handling/storage with the last option being waaaay more likely than the preceding two. If the guitar has gotten dry enough for the top to split, braces may have come loose, as well. This can all be fixed but it can adversely affect tone (although that isn't inevitable) and it certainly decreases value, compared to an equivalent guitar without cracks. If it's a great deal, it might be worth buying and springing for the repairs. I wouldn't pay the going rate that an uncrqacked instrument would command but if the price were right and I had access to a tech who I was confident could do the repair well, I might go for it in the hope of winding up with a great guitar at a relatively low price. Not everyone cares about various issues to the same degree. What I'm laying out isn't the only reaction to the situation you describe or necessarily the right one. It's just the call I'd make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 There is a lot of good info in this thread. I would argue that finish checking on Gibsons of a certain age is normal, in the sense that it is common and in no way de-values the guitar, or affects its tone or playability. It is a characteristic of age and many people actually like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Good CLEAR pics would be helpful. Full length shots, body shots, head shots, and detail shots. Best to use your digital camera setting for macro. This is usually indicated by a flower icon, i.e. suitable for taking closeups of flowers. Back up about 3 or more feet away, then zoom in. This seems to be best for yielding good, clear close-ups. I've yet to see cell camera pics that are clear enough. There may be some high end cell cameras, that do, but they are far and few between. Post to PhotoBucket.com, then post a link or link picture here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Batches of nitro lacquer can differ in composition, with some being more susceptible to checking than others. I currently own ten Gibsons & have had many more, all stored in the same location in our current home over the past 22 years. Some have developed various levels of checking, while others have remained pristine. I've learned to live with it as part of the Gibson experience, and would not shy away from a good example of a particular model because of finish issues alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I love the finish checking on my older Gibsons. They seem to me to be completely natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIBSON KNIGHTS Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 thanks to everyone of you for your advise..!!! finally to get some pictures from the seller.. he wouldn't let me take the pictures so he did it him self.. not sure if it's enough for you guys to see and advise me but I'll post it. and he said he took pictures only of one guitar red sunburst that's in worst shape compare to the other.. http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0590.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0589.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0591.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0596.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0598.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0589.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0600.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0601.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0602.jpg http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/PhotoZara/J200/J200IMG_0598.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIBSON KNIGHTS Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 I think the picture of the back of J200 might be the belt scratch.. not sure though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIBSON KNIGHTS Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 What do you guys think, should I buy it considering the condition and for how much..? 'cause this dude is kind of playing me now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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