Set up help required

[Deadgrateful]

So my J-45 TV is a beauty and I've had her a little over 6 months. The action was perfect right out the case and it played like a dream.

 

HOWEVER playing it today I noticed a buzz on the D string when played open or up to about the 4th fret. I tried changing the D string to another brand and the same thing occurred (whether or not changing ALL of the strings would have made a difference I'm not sure).

 

So...I eliminated the obvious issues and deduced that the truss rod probably needed to be loosened some what.

 

It was pretty tight and I loosened it till the buzz disappeared in open position (a small turn at a time).

 

Well now I'm left with very high action at the 12th (between 8 and 9 64ths of an inch) and no room to move (if I tighten the tr now it will buzz again).

 

How do I go about lowering the action and getting it back to 7 64ths at the 12th without the buzz coming back?

 

ALSO one of the truss rod screws was only half a screw. So either the other half broke off in the headstock (which sucks) OR some dufus at Gibson used a buggered up screw...

[Lars68]

Maybe your nut slot is too low? You can check by pressing down at the third fret. There should now be a tiny, tiny gap between the string and the first fret. It can be very tricky to see if there is actually any air between the string and the fret. To make sure, tap the string just beyond the first fret with your fingernail when still pressing down at the third fret. If the string does not touch the fret, there should be a clicking, slightly ringing sound when you tap the string. If it's a dead sound, the string is touching the fret.

 

If this is your problem, you can build the slot up with a mixture of bone dust and superglue to raise the string somewhat.

 

Lars

[Deadgrateful]

Cool, I'll check it once the necks had a chance to settle down from the tr adjustment. So if I shaved a little of the saddle would the buzz just come back?

 

I really hope my nuts aren't too low :blink:

[devellis]

Lowering the action will require removing material from the bridge. Personally, on a nice guitar, I prefer to get a new bridge to work on and keep the original unchanged. This is also handy if you find that you like to make seasonal changes in the action.

 

If you buy a saddle from Bob Colosi, the best thing to do is to remove the existing saddle so that you can measure it precisely (i.e., with digital calipers). Bob will send you a slightly over-sized replacement so that you can sand it a bit to get a perfect fit. First off, you need to thin the saddle enough to fit in the slot. I prefer a snug fir that requires a gentle push rather than mere gravity to seat the saddle. The ends of the saddle will also need to be shortened to fit the slot and rounded off to match the contour of the routed saddle slot. The remaining adjustment is to remove material from the bottom of the saddle so that the resulting action is correct.

 

It's important, when removing material from the side or bottom of the saddle, to wind up with a dead-level and dead-perpendicular surface. The surfaces on the saddle bob sends you will be flat and perpendicular. To keep them that way, you'll need some kind of a fence to hold the saddle against while sanding that will keep it perfectly upright. I use the metal frame from one of these things:

 

 

 

Slide the ruler out, lay it on a flat surface (like the way it appears in the picture), and hold the saddle blank against it. The other thing you'll need is a dead-flat surface to which you can attach some sandpaper. I use a chunk of granite counter top that I have. So, I stick the sandpaper (usually around 150 grit), rough side up, to the granite. I then rest the frame of the carpenter's square on the sand paper so that the level long side is like a little wall (just imagine that the grey background in the picture is actually a sheet of sandpaper and the ruler is out of the frame). Then, holding the saddle firmly against the frame, I drag it back and forth along the sandpaper. So, two surfaces of the saddle are in full contact with a flat surface: one is in contact with the flat sandpaper surface and one is in contact with the flat carpenter's square frame surface.

 

Putting some two-sided tape on the exposed surface of the saddle blank will make it easier to slide along. In essence, the tape creates more friction between your hand and the saddle than there is between the frame and the saddle. Some people also use rubber finger guards that you can get at places like Staples that are used to prevent paper cuts and to help flip through piles of pages one at a time.

 

Finally, consider how much material to remove. For the thickness and length dimensions, you can keep checking to see if the saddle fits the slot. When I do this, I stick each end of the saddle into the slot but don't insert the whole saddle because I want a tight enough fit that the saddle won't just drop out on its own. That snug of a fit makes getting the saddle out a little tricky, so I avoid seating and removing it as much as is possible. For the height, you can align the top of the original saddle with the new one and, if the original is shorter, draw a line onto the blank where the bottom of the original falls. If you sanded to that point, the new saddle would be the same height as the original. Now, determine how much you want to lower the action. For every 1/64th of an inch that you want to lower the action at the 12th fret, you need to lower the saddle by twice as much: 2/64ths (or 1/32nd) of an inch for 1/64th lower action. So, if the saddle needs to come down 2/64ths, you'd want the new saddle to be 4/64ths lower than the original. You can draw a new straight line parallel to the one indicating where the bottom of the original saddle falls, but above it by twice the distance that you want to lower the action at the 12th fret.

 

Then, it's just a matter of carefully and patiently sanding. As you get very close to the line, it's probably a good idea to put the saddle in the slot, string up, and check the action. (If you put a capo on the guitar, loosen the strings, pull the pins and strings out of the bridge but keep them attached to the tuners, this re-stringing is a lot easier.) If it's still high, take it out and sand off some more material. Keep doing that until it's where you want it.

 

In practice, I usually remove the bulk of the material "freehand" before using the carpenter square frame as a gate. It goes faster and it's easier to grip the saddle for sanding if it isn't against the "gate." Just be sure that you don't get the bottom surface too out-of-square with the front and back of the saddle. As you get closer to the line, using the saddle for the last bit will square everything off, as long as you haven't gotten the bottom too lop-sided before using the gate.

 

This is a tedious process but if you're careful, it isn't difficult. I've done it a few times and I was more confident and it went more quickly each successive time. I like knowing that it's a modification I can make myself when I choose to. On the other hand, having a good tech do it will cost a bit more and take longer, but won't require any effort on your part and it should get done properly. It's your call.

[Deadgrateful]

Wow, that's some really really great info. Thanks!

 

So, will the buzz come back if I lower the action from the saddle? Or has loosening the truss rod sorted this?

[BigKahune]

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Good advice.

 

Before you get to any of that, make sure you neck is straight, with the proper relief. Also, get a straight edge and lay it across several frets at once - they should be level, all touching the straight edge. If you see any lower or any too high that rock the straight edge, get might want to get your frets leveled. Check all the frets this way.

 

Of course you could have your local shop/luthier give it a setup check - neck straight, relief, fret level, belly dome, bridge set, nut and saddle.

[Deadgrateful]

BigKahune, that was pretty much the first thing I did. I used to make and finish exotic wood closed corner picture frames for a living (sort of) so I have a load of tools and a nice space to work in. I'm really keen to learn these things myself. Everything is good now except the action (which I'm assuming I can lower from the saddle without adding buzz back).

 

I think the nut may be oh so slightly to deep on the d string but we'll have to see!

 

Thanks again everyone for the great advice

[guitarstrummer]

All good suggestions, but if the buzz just recently started, I think I would also check to make sure that your guitar isn't on the dry side, resulting in the top dropping slightly. In the winter it's not uncommon for the humidity levels to drop and if you don't keep the proper humidity levels up, it could dry it out enough for the strings to start buzzing.

 

As for one of the truss rod cover screws being broken, I'm guessing it was the lower screw. Gibson sometimes snips off the tips of the lower screws so they won't hit the top of your truss rod. Nothing to worry about. It will still be long enough to hold the TRC in place. Just make sure that after removing the TRC, you replace the screws in the same location as they were in before.

[BigKahune]

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If you got a nut slot that's too deep. Mix some baking soda and super glue (CA glue) to make a paste, put the paste in the slot, let it cure and harden, and then file the nut slot to the correct depth.

[Deadgrateful]

All good suggestions, but if the buzz just recently started, I think I would also check to make sure that your guitar isn't on the dry side, resulting in the top dropping slightly. In the winter it's not uncommon for the humidity levels to drop and if you don't keep the proper humidity levels up, it could dry it out enough for the strings to start buzzing.

 

As for one of the truss rod cover screws being broken, I'm guessing it was the lower screw. Gibson sometimes snips off the tips of the lower screws so they won't hit the top of your truss rod. Nothing to worry about. It will still be long enough to hold the TRC in place. Just make sure that after removing the TRC, you replace the screws in the same location as they were in before.

 

Yes it is the bottom screw, so you've put my mind at rest! Awesome. It's summer here in the UK and humidity is pretty high so I recon the top is pretty stable. It could be I just didn't notice it before, or perhaps not... Strange it's only the D though. I'm going to lower the action slightly at the saddle now the tr is adjusted. If it buzzes after this I'll try filling the nut slot and re-filing.

 

[Jeremy Morton]

If the action was just right and then you started getting some buzzing it is a good possibility that there may be some humidity issues. If the humidity levels dropped its a possibility tht the top may have dropped a bit and thats where the buzz is coming from. there are also many ways to address the action of your guitar. Truss rod, nut and saddle can all be adjusted in different combinations to get a positive result. I would suggest bringing it to a professional that can help you get the guitar setup how you would like it. Keep the old saddle and perhaps you will want to use it durring a different part of the year when there is more humidity or less depending on the action you would like to acheive.

Good luck

Jeremy