MarkA Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 My son has a new LP Studio for less that a year and the neck has moved slightly to a back bow and the Bass strings are buzzing. When attempting to adjust the truss rod I noticed as I turn the nut counterclockwise, itspressure releases past the ¼ turn and at ½ turn the nut is loose such that Ican turn it / move it back and forth with my fingertip (not needing the 5/16wrench). I expected the truss rod to be under tension and giving somepressure against the nut. Is it to be expected that the nut be free to turnafter ½ turn? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 My son has a new LP Studio for less that a year and the neck has moved slightly to a back bow and the Bass strings are buzzing. When attempting to adjust the truss rod I noticed as I turn the nut counterclockwise, itspressure releases past the ¼ turn and at ½ turn the nut is loose such that Ican turn it / move it back and forth with my fingertip (not needing the 5/16wrench). I expected the truss rod to be under tension and giving somepressure against the nut. Is it to be expected that the nut be free to turnafter ½ turn? M Take it to guitar repairman and let them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Not a good situation. I'm with Tazzboy - bring it to a good shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codename Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've seen guitars truss rods lose tension after half a turn so I would say this is normal. I would just tune to pitch,snug up the truss rod and see if it gets some relief after a couple of days before bringing it to a repair man. Just curious,what gauge strings are on the guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkA Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 The string Gauge are Ernie Ball Regulay Slinkys 10 (hi E) - 46 (low E). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codename Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Try leaving no tension on the truss rod and see if you lose the backbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 It isn't so abnormal as it sounds. An adjustment of 1/8 turn is actually a lot, and it is not an indication of a defect if the guitar only requires 1/4 turn or so of tension from nothing to have the proper adjustment. Mahogony can act like a pretty soft wood at times, and be sensitive to climate. Leaving no tension on the truss rod with strings tuned for a few days or so could make a difference. If you are having trouble setting up the action, nothing wrong with taking it in and having it done, or having it checked for that matter. But, I would'nt think it was nessessary solely based on having the truss rod loose after 1/4 turn from where it was at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Take to a tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Are you saying that a loose truss rod with a back-bowed neck is normal ? or that i could be attributed to climate ? What I would say is that a loose truss rod with a back bowed neck is definitely not normal... whether you live in at the north pole or the Sahara Desert... lol..heck no. How do I know if the neck has a backbow still, or how much it was? All I was saying is that getting no tension after a half turn out is not an indication of a problem, that's all. Let me put another way: If any truss rod on a Gibson is turned 1/2, that should translate to MAJOR changes in neck relief. More often than not, with most guitars of all types, I expect the nut to be loose after about 1/3 to 3/4 turns in my experience (just to give an idea). If I was to assume (I'm not) if you told me you loosened a rod 1/2 turn, I would assume no more back bow. And mainly, If I was to adjust ANY rod on any guitar, I sure as heck would NOT AT ALL EVER start with a 1/2 turn to tighten it, even if there was no tension to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Stein... understood .... thanks for the clarification The more I re-read this thread, the more I wonder whats going on with this guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think the experience of the truss rod nut turner is the most important part of it. If you've never turned a truss rod nut you probably wouldn't expect it to loosen just like that. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think the experience of the truss rod nut turner is the most important part of it. If you've never turned a truss rod nut you probably wouldn't expect it to loosen just like that. rct BINGO! And like all wise poeple, when in doubt, ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Stein... understood .... thanks for the clarification The more I re-read this thread, the more I wonder whats going on with this guitar I don't think so. Just from what I can glean from reading here, it just problably required a slight adjustment after a while. I bet if I was to check a couple of mine it might need just such an adjustment, and I would not be surprised if I could'nt get the nut to spin free after about 3/4 turn on at least one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G McBride Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I agree that you need to give it a couple of days with the nut loose. Back bow is harder to get out than too much relief. You have to rely upon the string tension to bring the neck back again and this could take a day or is could happen immediately, either way would not surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 If it was me I'd take the nut off and try flexing the neck upward a little to see if the truss rod threads are hung up on some filler or something. But if you're not good at messing around with stuff, don't mess with it. If you have a backbow with the trussrod loosened all the way, there's a problem. If you leave the trussrod nut off and it creeps back upward then you probably have some glue or something in there. The wood in the neck itself will not creep over time, so any creep will be from something soft, like glue or epoxy, not from wood or steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkA Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Thanks to everyone who added their comments to my problem with my sons LP truss-rod issue. I took your advise and took it to a Gibson Authorized repair shop here in Maryland to have a professional look at it and was quite surprised at the explanation and solution. Here is what he the Luthier said has happened (I am taking this from memory so my appologies if I have stated any of this in error!). Here goes... The truss-rod in my 2010 (November built) Les Paul is notlike your old Les Paul’s. Where the old versions use to be a floating rod thatcould be tightened and loosened (and possibly ruined if adjusted wrong) with thenut. Gibson changed the design and have the rod now fixed at both the head andbridge side, It is possible that the pins/staples used to hold my truss rodhave ceased and the rod is nothing but a stiffener (not adjustable) andtherefore by loosening the nut at the head of the neck the truss rod will notallow tension on the neck to bring back the neck to give some relief . Essentiallymy truss rod nut will have no effect to adjust my neck. The Luthier said thisis not uncommon on new LP’s. He measured the straightness of the neck and saidit was within spec and that would be best to do a neck setup (ie. Polish and filethe fingerboard and frets) but only after the guitar has gone through twoseasons of weather (winter and summer- spring and fall don’t count). He saidthat the worst condition will be with humidity as that can expand thefingerboard and cause the neck to bow back even more. Unlike acoustic guitars,this LP doesn’t want any added moisture. The solution recommended by the Gibson tech is to use adifferent string set (“Skinny top/Heavy bottom”) to add additional tension onthe neck. He also found the bridge was set a little low on the bass side (thiswas the original problem – the bass strings were buzzing) and he raised theaction a little. I will bring it back to him to adjust after we see sometypical hot/humid Washington DC summer weather for him to go over again. So toanyone else who relaxes their nut on their truss-rods and sees no effect…Thisis normal. As long as the neck is not too out , adjusting the bridge is theonly action to take. Otherwise Gibson (or your store you bought it from) wouldneed to be notified to get the darn thing replaced. Thanks again to all those that contributed to the forumfor my Truss Rod No Relief issue! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 . Thanks for the follow up. I was watching your thread, but didn't comment. The explanation the tech gave is news to me. I'm gonna have to check in to this new design and learn what's going on because it doesn't make sense to me. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 If I understand correctly, the truss rod is no longer adjustable? And, SOME Les Pauls have an issue where they are stuck and others not? The LP, by my understanding, is supposed to have an adjustable truss rod. If the rod cannot adjust because it is stuck, that is an issue. The action MAY be acceptable now, but it may change at some point. Action jobs, fret dressing, fret leveling is all good, but doing that to compensate for an inability to adjust the rod is not really a solution. In fact, if it was your money you were spending on the work, you would be wasting it in a sense that you couldn't refine the action by adjusting the neck. I could be understanding this all wrong, so I do not want to judge or bash the tech. But just to be clear, if the rod does not allow for adjustment because it is siezed internally, it is defective and needs to be fixed or replaced as per warrenty if you bought it new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 SOMEbody got this wrong, either the "Luthier" or your understanding of it. I'm not saying anything at all bad about you the writer, or the "Luthier" at the shop, I'm saying not one word of this makes sense to anyone that has been around guitars any length of time. Seriously, if your truss is shot, return the guitar, there is no other answer. Not uncommon with newer LPs? For the money these guys are getting for a Les Paul that truss better dang well do what a truss does. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete c Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 suppose to be a two way adjustable truss rod right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Geez - what the tech said sounds like a bunch of BS to me. New studios have a traditional trussrod and are adjustable just like any other Gibson. You need to try another guitar tech. It is not uncommon for guitar techs to be pretty ignorant. It sounds like something that's going to end up being fixed by Gibson under warranty. If it was me, I'd call Gibson Customer Service and ask them about warranty service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I paid 1300 bucks for a 2012 Wine Red les paul Studio and received it on May 1st. The guitar was not playable at all as the neck was back bowed so bad that the strings were touching the frets on the lower end of the fretboard. I found a aurhorized luther and 4 days later turned it in. After waiting for 4 weeks and 2 days, I went to pick up the guitar. The spots where the nitrocellulose dripped were fixed, (( here the spots are: http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/2012May1stfrets.jpg )))) and the sharp fret ends were better,but were never really fixed to the degree that they should have been, but the guitar was able to be played !!! (( Sort of how it should have on May 1st. It still have fret buzz that could be heard through the Vox AC15C2 Amp, but I raised the bridge a little and it seemed to make it ok.)) As I was picking up the guitar from the luther, I noticed a large dent near the tone knob, and I showed it to him. He agreed that he had done it and would fix it for me. I had never played the guitar and I wanted to show it to my Son coming home on leave from the Marine Corps and I took it home for two weeks before returning it to the Luther. Well the phone calls went back and forth, its over 100 degrees in his workshop so he cant work on it today, and then his buffing wheel broke and he had to drive up the road to New Hartford to Ovation and use their buffing wheels, and then it wasnt dry enough still yet..........so another three months or so go by and he finally says he cant get the light to not bend funny and the guitar needs to be shipped back to nashville. Well that was done on 8/27 and when I got the guitar back from them, this wonderful view met me and caused me such wonderful inside feelings: http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/sept10thGibsondent.jpg So I called Gibson the next day and they had me ship it back to them a second time and again they did a wonderful job of fixing the body and dents. 9-17 is when they received it for the second time. I purchased a nice Celtic Cross to replace the truss rod cover as I wanted to make it feel more my own, when I noticed that the nut was shaved very funny and looked almost broken !! http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/TRnut_zpsc6681324.jpg When I went to touch the nut, it turned easily with just my fingers and was not tight at all. The neck is as straight as can be but because the nut cant be loosened you cannot get any relief at all. Had the luther mentioned this to me at the very first, I could have returned the guitar within 30 days for a full refund, but he was too busy bother getting gibson to pay him extra for doing this and that. Well I know that the intonation was never done properly in the setup, and that my bridge is high to get rid of buzz and that none of the string heights are set to what they should be, so I decided that my truss rod is no good and that my guitar is a LEMON and needs to be replaced. I called Gibson and they had ME pay for shipping this time to send it for the THIRD time back to them. So you fix the dents twice but never check the guitar for setup ????? I guess the repair shop does not do setups. Anyway, before I did ship it to them with a 4 page letter attached, I put 12's on the guitar for 4 weeks and instead of 430 hz, I went up to 450 and the two threads I left loose under the nut were still showing after 4 weeks. They have had my guitar now sense Jan 31st so its been 20 days, and I have written to them on facebook and emailed them and I still have no idea if they are going to heat treat the neck and actually fix it or what they have planned. I have been saving up my money and selling some other things and I would like to just get rid of the 2012 Studio that has been a heartbreak for my very first USA made Gibson, and I would like to upgrade to a Standard or Traditional where Im hoping to get a better made guitar. I know every company must make a lemon once in awhile, but I dont feel like drinking lemon-aid right now. I hope they do right by me, as their company authorized luther sure didnt. ******************************************************************************* I just received this email today............. --- On Wed, 2/20/13, Todd Money <Todd.Money@gibson.com> wrote: From: Todd Money <Todd.Money@gibson.com> Subject: RE: 2012 wine red les paul studio 2 To: "Mike" <*******@yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 10:45 AM Mike, Your guitar will be scrapped and replaced. Customer Service will be contacting you shortly to arrange it. Regards, Todd Money Manager Gibson Repair & Restoration 138 12th Ave North Nashville, Tn. 37203 (615) 871-4500 ext 2282 800-4-GIBSON ext 2284 So after 10 months, my very first USA Gibson was a Lemon and will be replaced. The 130 bucks I paid to the luther to do the frets and plastics will be gone and not reimbursed, but at least I was correct in knowing I had a lemon. I had already talked with the manager of the Guitar Center where I purchased the 2012 Studio and He had already told me he would only give me 600 bucks if I brought in a brand new one, never used ( as is the case here ) and I should not have to lose 700 bucks that I want to put towards the purchase of a Standard or Traditional with BINDING, instead of another Studio. I could not afford a Standard back then but now I can. I hope the original poster of this truss rod message makes out ok as well. Dont give up on Gibson, they are a great USA company !!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 The OP's tech sounds like he's telling a convoluted fish story. On a Gibson, a fully loosened truss rod nut + backbow (with the neck under tension) = serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Get a knew tech. That's a load of BS. In fact, if he's a Gibson authorised repairer then I would name and shame him. Here in South East Blighty there's a bit of a double edged sword, there is a brilliant tech (actually a proper Luthier) who is bloody brilliant, and a damn fine chap to boot. The downside is there is only one in the entire South East region as far as I can tell... http://www.jwhite-guitarworkshops.co.uk/ He's Martin auth'd as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Something does not add up here. The truss rod should allow you to get rid of back-bow or too much relief. If it doesn't work then there is something wrong with the guitar and if under warranty Gibson will repair it. Waiting a couple of years to go through humidity and temperature changes is not a suitable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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