Entertain me...

[Sockeroo]

Let's use Guitar Center and Gibson in a very unrealistic hypothetical situation.

 

Let's say that a Guitar Center location stocks only 25 assorted Gibson guitars on the premises, which would be absurd and very low in volume. This includes sealed in the stock room, and displays on the sales floor. So, 25 assorted Gibsons. That's it.

 

Next, consider how man Guitar Center locations exist nationwide.

 

Multiply the number 25 Gibson units by the number of all Guitar Center locations.

 

Then multiply that total by the price they're obtained by Guitar Center for: $500.00.

 

The answer = Gibson wins & GC WINS.

 

Because GC will then sell those $500.00 guitars at double and sometimes triple the price, at a deal or sale for us.

 

And in the rare case when someone scores a price even lower than the lowest possible worked-out price in history, Guitar Center still isn't affected.

 

We didn't even factor in guitarcenter.com and Musicians Friend (owned by GC), and the actual number of units per store: well over 25 per manufacturer.

 

Ultimately, Gibson really WINS because they are repeating this process with probably 200 different authorized retailers around the world.

 

That's a lot of 500 x 25's!

 

This is an example of only one manufacturers dealings with a retailer. If we assume that all manufacturers use a similar model Guitar Center cannot die.

[GuitarJunkie]

Let's use Chevrolet dealers and GM in a very unrealistic hypothetical situation.

 

Let's say that a GM dealer stocks only 25 assorted Chevrolets on the premises, which would be absurd and very low in volume. This includes stored in the warehouse, and displays on the sales floor. So, 25 assorted Chevrolets. That's it.

 

Next, consider how man GM dealers exist nationwide.

 

Multiply the number 25 Chevrolet units by the number of all GM dealers.

 

Then multiply that total by the price they're obtained by the GM dealers for: $5000.00.

 

The answer = GM wins & the dealers.

 

Because the GM dealer will then sell those $5000.00 cars at double and sometimes triple the price, at a deal or sale for us.

 

Ultimately, GM really WINS because they are repeating this process with probably 200 different authorized retailers around the world.

 

That's a lot of 5000 x 25's!

_______________________

 

This theory would make perfect sense if it were possible for Gibson to build, assemble, finish, pack and ship a quality electric guitar AND make a small profit selling it to GC/MF for only $500.

 

You know, you're not supposed to drink the bong water.

[Sockeroo]

You know' date=' you're not supposed to drink the bong water. [img']http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/hippy.gif[/img]

 

FAIL.

 

I know first hand they're sold to GC for that price. My friend who works there sold me new SG Standards for $900.00. He was able to go well below the lowest possible haggle price set by the managers because the store only paid cost, $500.00 per unit, and was still turning a profit at 9. And a Les Paul Standard Custom for $1500.00, new - which retailed for $2500.00. Those only cost GC $1000.00 per unit in.

 

Check your facts.

 

If you spent more time comprehending my post and less time rewriting it, lame, you would grasp the concept of bulk purchases at $500.00 per unit, and what those sorts of figures amount to for Gibson.

[Ian Martin]

You're telling me Gibson only gets $500 an SG, while GC gets $1,000 profit on a good day (assuming the sale price is $1,500)?

 

It would seem to me that GC is the one getting rich here...not Gibson. I would honestly think they could charge retailers much more.

[GuitarJunkie]

I stand by my first post.

[Tim Plains]

Sockeroo, let's just assume your numbers are on the money.

So, what? What do you expect. Did you really think that both Gibson's and GC's profit was only a few bucks per guitar.

They need to keep those profits in order to stay in business.

Look at a '59 Les Paul reissue. There's $300 - $500 worth of material in that guitar, which sells for $5,000+.

 

My local music store has around 20 employees working at any given time. Those guys all need to get paid.

Meanwhile, the store needs to make a profit in order to stay afloat and keep new product coming in.

You also got to keep in mind that expensive guitars don't exactly fly off the shelf.

Again, my local music store has had 3 SG Standards sitting on the wall for over a month.

One '59 LP reissue has been there since Christmas.

 

GuitarJunkie's first post was very valid. Do you have any idea how much profit a dealership makes on a new Corvette?

It ain't peanuts, I can tell you that!

[Sockeroo]

Tim,

 

I expect them to make exactly what they're making. I'm not astounded by the figures. Just bringing something up to discuss.

 

500 per unit is in no way cheap, when only 1 out of all the nationwide GC locations is buying them at bulk in that price.

Now repeat that model for Sam Ash, and the other big guys, then come down the line to the smallest mom & pop shop on their list.

 

think about all the chains, all the individual locations they have. The huge warehouses for gc.com and musiciansfriend.com that stock probably quadruple what a store can.

 

Then take that International. Gibson is pulling down millions at 500 per guitar bulk.

[GuitarJunkie]

Again, using your logic and my analogy, car manufacturers make billions every year selling cars at anywhere from $15,000 to $50,000 per unit. Unfortunately, it costs billions to build the assembly plants, hire train and pay the workers, buy the raw materials, build, and ship the final product. Never mind the cost involved in designing, testing and tooling for new models as well as market research, advertising, etc...

 

GM sold over 300,000 vehicles in the month of august alone.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/sales_prod/

 

If they sold each of those vehicles for $5,000 each, that's a total of 1.5 BILLION dollars. Surely, that must be more than enough money for one company, right? And "5000 per unit is in no way cheap". The problem is...

 

THE PRODUCT THEY'RE SELLING IS A $15,000 to $50,000 ITEM!!!!

 

You're correct that Gibson sells a ton of guitars every year, but it costs a ton of money to produce those. And there's way more involved than just raw materials as Tim alluded to. Besides all of Gibson's overhead, GC/MF also needs to build stores, pay rent (heat and electricity), hire staff, advertise, host a website (which involves a call center, warehouse, shipping) and make a profit.

 

And I don't care what line of $h!t your "friend" told you. They don't get SG Standards for $500 and "Les Paul Standard Customs" (whatever those are) for $1000. I'm sure there are Gibsons that only cost them a few hundred bucks, like the faded SG or the Les Paul Studio VM. I've worked in the music retail business in the past and most larger stores get what is referred to as a "B discount". That amounts to 40% off the MSRP which is $2419 on an SG Standard. A chain like GC/MF certainly gets an A discount which is 50% off MSRP or $1200 for an SG. That's why they're currently selling them for $1599. They're making $400 each on a ton of units, with plenty of room to move. They will also occasionally get better deals on close-outs and other assorted specials, plus the MSRP just went up a few hundred bucks this year. They were paying closer to $1000 for a regular SG Standard a few months ago.

 

You show me a receipt for $900 and I'll eat my words.

[Murph]

Yep.

 

What Junkie said. But he forgot to mention INSURANCE on all those buildings, warehouses, ect.

 

Murph.

[LT ED]

Crazy as it sounds I like the fact that gibson guitars are expensive, its that with all the history and heretige that makes them all the more special. Nothing we buy costs anything near what it costs to make ,eg a house. If gibson guitars were alot cheaper then every tom **** and harry would have one and I for one think the reason were all so passionate about our guitars is because we all work very hard to buy them. There isn,t much out there to beat the whole gibson package . For me there is a real sence of attchevment when you buy one of these babys. Who cares what the raw materials cost, thats just the start of it. Im in Cornwall in the UK and theres seems to be a real problem getting hold of gibson guitars at the moment, non of the local dealers [and there arn,t many] can stock the amount of guitars needed to be gibson dealer. Lets hope that changes soon.

[MattS]

Tim' date='

 

I expect them to make exactly what they're making. I'm not astounded by the figures. Just bringing something up to discuss.

 

500 per unit is in no way cheap, when only 1 out of all the nationwide GC locations is buying them at bulk in that price.

Now repeat that model for Sam Ash, and the other big guys, then come down the line to the smallest mom & pop shop on their list.

 

think about all the chains, all the individual locations they have. The huge warehouses for gc.com and musiciansfriend.com that stock probably quadruple what a store can.

 

Then take that International. Gibson is pulling down millions at 500 per guitar bulk.

 

[/quote']

 

You just told us that a new SG is 500 for GC to buy and an LP is 1,000 for GC to buy.

 

 

So I fail to see how selling every guitar at 500 bucks would EARN money. Selling them at bulk would lose them millions, not earn them millions, because profits would be down to almost nothing.

[MattS]

Again' date=' using your logic and my analogy, car manufacturers make billions every year selling cars at anywhere from $15,000 to $50,000 per unit. Unfortunately, it costs billions to build the assembly plants, hire train and pay the workers, buy the raw materials, build, and ship the final product. Never mind the cost involved in designing, testing and tooling for new models as well as market research, advertising, etc...

 

GM sold over 300,000 vehicles [b']in the month of august alone[/b].

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/sales_prod/

 

If they sold each of those vehicles for $5,000 each, that's a total of 1.5 BILLION dollars. Surely, that must be more than enough money for one company, right? And "5000 per unit is in no way cheap". The problem is...

 

THE PRODUCT THEY'RE SELLING IS A $15,000 to $50,000 ITEM!!!!

 

You're correct that Gibson sells a ton of guitars every year, but it costs a ton of money to produce those. And there's way more involved than just raw materials as Tim alluded to. Besides all of Gibson's overhead, GC/MF also needs to build stores, pay rent (heat and electricity), hire staff, advertise, host a website (which involves a call center, warehouse, shipping) and make a profit.

 

And I don't care what line of $h!t your "friend" told you. They don't get SG Standards for $500 and "Les Paul Standard Customs" (whatever those are) for $1000. I'm sure there are Gibsons that only cost them a few hundred bucks, like the faded SG or the Les Paul Studio VM. I've worked in the music retail business in the past and most larger stores get what is referred to as a "B discount". That amounts to 40% off the MSRP which is $2419 on an SG Standard. A chain like GC/MF certainly gets an A discount which is 50% off MSRP or $1200 for an SG. That's why they're currently selling them for $1599. They're making $400 each on a ton of units, with plenty of room to move. They will also occasionally get better deals on close-outs and other assorted specials, plus the MSRP just went up a few hundred bucks this year. They were paying closer to $1000 for a regular SG Standard a few months ago.

 

You show me a receipt for $900 and I'll eat my words.

 

+1 billion

[GuitarJunkie]

+1 billion

You mean +1.5 billion.

 

 

 

BTW' date=' shut [i']him[/i] up pretty quick.

Either that or he's busy digging out his receipt for a $900 SG Standard.

[AS90]

 

FAIL.

 

 

I bet you use the word 'random' quite a lot as well dont you!?

 

 

 

 

 

You gimp

[ChanMan]

Hi. I'm ChanMan from the LP section. This has been very entertaining. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

/chuckle I think the word you're looking for, Junkie, is "Plekk'd"

[Sockeroo]

BTW' date=' shut [i']him[/i] up pretty quick. Either that or he's busy digging out his receipt for a $900 SG Standard.

 

Actually,

 

The internet isn't serious business for me, I'm busy in the real world. But you guys can't seem stay away from this thread.

 

And yes, I'm going through my records so to scan my receipt for you, slick. I'm also compiling

new documents from said friend, just for you.

 

 

 

I bet you use the word 'random' quite a lot as well dont you!?

 

Sorry, don't. But it would seem you couldn't wait to fire that one out.

[GuitarJunkie]

The internet isn't serious business for me' date=' I'm busy in the real world.[/quote']

The "old classic" from anyone who has lost their own argument.

 

Although, technically you win...

the thread is called "Entertain me..."

 

Sounds like someone who's actually not so "busy in the real world".

[Sockeroo]

Oh,

 

It looks like you got my number.

 

What shall I do?

 

The Gibson forum is full of lose.

[GuitarJunkie]

And yes' date=' I'm going through my records so to scan my receipt for you, slick. I'm also compiling

new documents from said friend, just for you.[/quote']

Still looking for that paperwork?

[GuitarJunkie]

I figured I'd do Socks a favor and keep this on page 1 while he tracks down that receipt... ;)

[littlekenny]

chill out homeslice

[Tim Plains]

I figured I'd do Socks a favor and keep this on page 1 while he tracks down that receipt...

You're loving this, aren't you?

[GuitarJunkie]

You're loving this' date=' aren't you? [/quote']

Don't look at me. You're the one that just "bumped" this thread. Well, I guess I just did by replying.

 

Anyhow, he's the one that took several opportunities to belittle me and was so darn convinced he was right, that he was compiling documents "just for (me)". I was called "lame", "slick" and "loser" (I'm assuming he meant loser in his last post and his typing is as good as his business sense). I'm just making sure he doesn't miss his chance to put me in my place.

 

FAIL.

Check your facts.

If you spent more time comprehending my post and less time rewriting it' date=' lame, you would grasp the concept of bulk purchases at $500.00 per unit, and what those sorts of figures amount to for Gibson.

[/quote']

 

And yes' date=' I'm going through my records so to scan my receipt for you, slick. I'm also compiling

new documents from said friend, just for you.[/quote']

 

Oh' date=' It looks like you got my number.

What shall I do?

The Gibson forum is full of lose.[/quote']

[Sockeroo]

Actually,

 

 

I wasn't calling you a loser. I was merely stating that this forum is full of lose, instead of win.

 

 

And yes,

 

Your analogy of my initial post was lame. I was simply calling you out on your attempt to be slick.

 

Nevertheless,

 

Your consistent posting in this thread over the past few weeks clearly indicates how serious the internet is to you.

 

Oh,

 

I do love how you misconstrue the phrases I throw around. Obviously, you don't understand the definition of facetious.

 

Google Serious Business, and you'll see how I was making fun of you.

 

Enjoy your stay here.