"Q" about BASS playing technique - The dreaded String Rattle

[animalfarm]

While learning material on my Bass, I've noticed that when I release a fretted

note (specifically Low E and A, and on the low end of the neck) I get string rattle while

transitioning from one note to the next.

 

Rather than chase ghosts via google searches, I thought I'd ask some REAL Bass players.

 

Current set-up:

Strings - Round wound, I can SEE the wraps, and can definitely feel each winding as I run a

fingernail down the string.

Neck - almost dead flat, just the SLIGHTEST bit of relief.

Action - at 12th fret, Lo E 4/64ths, Hi G 3/64ths (considered Low by some?).

 

I noted that I was initially placing my fingers in the MIDDLE of the frets, rather than directly

behind it. Corrected that, still get "Rattle" when releasing THAT note to transition to the next one.

 

Hmmmmm. Suggestions as to causes? I like the Set-up so far, is it Action perhaps a bit too low,

or is my technique just %$#@$!!& ????

 

Thank you in Advance. Maybe.

[RobinTheHood]

It could be that your action is too low, or it could be that you arent applying enough pressure to the string. Bass takes a little bit more of a "grip", I guess you could say. . You may be fretting the string at a bad angle, too.

 

3/64" & 4/64 is really low, and could be causing it as well, but its more likely to rattle at that height from plucking or picking the string than fretting. It could be a combination of both, though. Not really sure. I'll check back here later after I wake up more.

 

 

 

 

[johnston]

When you say only the slightest bit of relief, how much is "Slightest".

 

My rough guess is if it's almost dead straight a Loosen the truss rod 1/8th of a turn and see how it goes. That'll do two jobs. A bit more relief obviously but also jack the action up a touch.

 

 

But also what brand/guage of strings are on there. Some are low tension will will obviously rattle more . Or if your a heavy handed player you might need to jack the action up a bit . I have all mine set to about 2mm. Any lower or a dead straight neck and they buzz like a bee and I hate fret buzz. And thats me trying to play easy :lol:

[animalfarm]

Thanks for responding! Not a lot of "foot traffic" in this part of the forum...

 

Again, to re-iterate, the "Rattle" is on the RELEASE of the fretted note while

moving to the next note. There is no Buzz/Rattle while any note is actually fretted and played.

The string is still vibrating when I begin to release finger pressure

to move on, and that's when the dreaded rattle happens.

 

EDIT: Using the "SPOCK" train of thought, the following is noted -

1. When string depressed and vibrating, finger pressure keeps string fretted,

and string vibrates normally, not contacting any other object/fret as finger pressure

keeps string "lifted".

2. As finger pressure released, vibrating string is allowed to return to it's

LOWER original position. This now allows it to "touch" the next fret as the "ARC" of

the vibrating string is like...really wide and stuff.

Hmmmmm......

 

 

I have read about not applying enough pressure causing buzzing, but as each note rings

as clear as a bell while played, this is not the case. It's driving me nuts listening to

vids on youtube, and THEIR BASSES don't go "Rattle" when THEY switch from note to note!!!

 

Lessee... By the SLIGHTEST relief, I mean that I can sight down the neck from the bout end

and, using the string as a reference straightedge, can see the neck gently sloping forward

at the nut end, but not much.

 

Brief History of Adjustments:

1. Bought Bass, had been sitting in HOT storage bldg for MONTHS. Neck had horrible

back-bow, even with high action all notes played below 5th fret fretted out.

 

2. Placed 18" metal machinist's ruler on fretboard. Could rock ruler up and down like

a see-saw, with the 5th fret as a pivot point.

 

3. Gradually adjusted Truss Rod. Rocking point moved down to 2nd fret. (Neck coming forward).

 

4. Adjusted truss rod more. No more rocking of ruler, can feel end of ruler touch 1st fret

when slid back and forth. now has SLIGHTEST noticeable "up-bow".

 

 

Happy with neck adjustments, set action and intonation.

I'm game with raising the action a bit to see if this is the culprit.

 

Regarding Brand of String....Who Knows? They were New on bass when I bought it, unknown brand.

Still look new and shiny. Gauges - .105, .085, .065, .045.

HOWEVER, I have no plans to ever switch string gauge, will keep using same.

 

BTW, thanks for responding!

[Gaolee]

I always called it fret click, and never worried much about it. Certain amplifiers will make fret click worse, others make it disappear. You can dial it out a bit with an eq, or you can use tape wound strings. The tape helps muffle the fret click. I personally use flats most of the time, and they don't click nearly as badly as round wounds. I haven't decided whether I like flats on the P-Bass yet, since they make slapping and popping a bit less effective, but getting rid of fret click is a plus.

[animalfarm]

 

3/64" & 4/64 is really low, and could be causing it as well,

but its more likely to rattle at that height from plucking or picking the string than fretting.

It could be a combination of both, though. Not really sure.

 

After meditating on the subject, (and reading about the setups for 4 or 5 PRO

players in the latest Dan Erlewine book) I raised by action exactly one-half turn

on each bridge set screw.

This brought each string up 1/64" at the 12th fret. Surprisingly, the rattle appears

to be gone! I'm now at LOW E - 5/64ths, and HI G - 4/64ths. Action still feels decently

low. One set-up Guy in the book said he just makes each string 1/8" as measured at the

LAST fret, but that seems kinda high to me.

 

Ahhh, whatever works!!!!!

[RobinTheHood]

After meditating on the subject, (and reading about the setups for 4 or 5 PRO

players in the latest Dan Erlewine book) I raised by action exactly one-half turn

on each bridge set screw.

This brought each string up 1/64" at the 12th fret. Surprisingly, the rattle appears

to be gone! I'm now at LOW E - 5/64ths, and HI G - 4/64ths. Action still feels decently

low. One set-up Guy in the book said he just makes each string 1/8" as measured at the

LAST fret, but that seems kinda high to me.

 

Ahhh, whatever works!!!!!

 

LIke I said in another post, I'm at 1/8th at the 12th. A little high for my tastes, but it elimiates most of the rattling. Any rattle I get that doesnt come through the amp, I'm cool with.

 

FRET CLICKING!! GAH! I hate fret clicking! Drives me INSANE! I try to EQ it out and/or adjust my fretting technique if I can. I've been seriously considering switching to flats. I dont slap, so I'm cool with that aspect. I'm just worried that they wont be agressive enough and that they feel rubbery. And then I'd have to decide which bass I want them on. Decisions, decisions...

[johnston]

LIke I said in another post, I'm at 1/8th at the 12th. A little high for my tastes, but it elimiates most of the rattling. Any rattle I get that doesnt come through the amp, I'm cool with.

 

FRET CLICKING!! GAH! I hate fret clicking! Drives me INSANE! I try to EQ it out and/or adjust my fretting technique if I can. I've been seriously considering switching to flats. I dont slap, so I'm cool with that aspect. I'm just worried that they wont be agressive enough and that they feel rubbery. And then I'd have to decide which bass I want them on. Decisions, decisions...

 

 

I put LaBellas on My P bass. would never look back.

[Hungrycat]

I'm just worried that they wont be agressive enough

 

Steve Harris of Iron Maiden uses flats, so...yeah.

 

Personally I've never had much of an issue with excessive string noise, but I like really bright, aggressive sound that's good for slap, tap, and typewriter styles.

You can pretty much EQ the thing any way you want if you want to get rid of what ever frequencies you don't like. I asked my dad about it because he just knows off the top of his head what frequency string noise happens at. (Must be a wizard or something...)He said that you should start to roll off from about 4k to 6K and to cut everything above 6K because it's just "noise, unusable notes, and extremely high harmonics that very few people are interested in utilizing." If you do that, he said you can still get a nice bright sound with out all pick and string noise.

[RobinTheHood]

Steve Harris of Iron Maiden uses flats, so...yeah.

 

Personally I've never had much of an issue with excessive string noise, but I like really bright, aggressive sound that's good for slap, tap, and typewriter styles.

You can pretty much EQ the thing any way you want if you want to get rid of what ever frequencies you don't like. I asked my dad about it because he just knows off the top of his head what frequency string noise happens at. (Must be a wizard or something...)He said that you should start to roll off from about 4k to 6K and to cut everything above 6K because it's just "noise, unusable notes, and extremely high harmonics that very few people are interested in utilizing." If you do that, he said you can still get a nice bright sound with out all pick and string noise.

 

Thanks, Cat. I didnt know Steve Harris uses flats. I guess they should be aggresive enough when I want them to be. I'll keep the EQ suggestion in mind too, but I dont have frequencies listed on my gear, so I'll have to wing it. I've spent a lot of time in the past year or so finding a good tone that works well for all of our songs...and I think i've got it pretty close. Unfortunately, it varies a lot between basses, so there is always some adjustments to make. My Ocean TB-5 bass seems the easiest to dial in. The Epiphone EBM-5 is the hardest. And my Epiphone Expert-6 is somewhere in between, but considering it has two J pickups, its more about me getting used to the sound it produces than dialing in what I want to hear.

[Hungrycat]

I'll keep the EQ suggestion in mind too, but I dont have frequencies listed on my gear, so I'll have to wing it.

 

Those frequencies are usually only found on full-range studio EQs.

 

I think you can pick up a Behrenger(SP?) 30-band rack-mount EQ for around $150. Electro-Harmonix has like, an 18 or 20 band stompbox EQ for about $150 too.

[MrNylon]

Raise your action up just slightly. Your E and A will give you a bit of fret rattle, just from being a larger gauge string anyway.

[Morkolo]

I didnt know Steve Harris uses flats. I guess they should be aggresive enough when I want them to be.

 

Just keep in mind that Steve Harris changes strings after every set and sometimes after only a few songs.

 

I used to have the same issue with fret clicking and find it actually suits some styles of music (John Entwistle, Geddy Lee). But for extremely clean playing there's only one answer and that's to clean up your technique. Set the EQ where you notice the click the most and then practice not making that sound. Once you have it down with a clickity Fieldy type tone it will be a snap when you roll on some mids and bass.

[Parabar]

Your playing technique can also make a big difference. As much as possible, try to fret the new note BEFORE you release the previous one. The timing of your plucking hand in relation to your fretting hand --- as well as how hard you pluck the stings --- is also crucial. When releasing a fretted note to play an open string, you're kinda stuck, but the timing of your release relative to your plucking hand can either reduce or increase the "dreaded rattle."

 

Dreaded Rattle: