Tuning problems Standard Traditional Pro?

[Timrobwall]

Recently bought this guitar and almost immediately began to have tuning and intonation problems once I changed to .09 strings. The Guitar Center tech did an OK job dealing with intonation, but tuning issues are a disaster. Even the slightest bend on the G strings makes it flat by a1/2 step or more. Right now, the guitar is unplayable (although I love the tone and feel). Anyone have experience with this. Recommendations? I just hate to drop more money with a my tech, but maybe this is the only alternative. Thanks.

[Ronnie Robinson]

Ok A few questions...

 

Was the tuning fine with the other gauge of strings used (10's probably) ?

Have these new strings you ve put on been stretched to take any slack out of them?

When tuning the strings do u tune up (as opposed to tune down) - this can make a bit difference

 

Also try putting some pencil lead in the string groves of the nut

[Timrobwall]

Ok A few questions...

 

Was the tuning fine with the other gauge of strings used (10's probably) ?

Have these new strings you ve put on been stretched to take any slack out of them?

When tuning the strings do u tune up (as opposed to tune down) - this can make a bit difference

 

Also try putting some pencil lead in the string groves of the nut

 

I changed the strings (yes, 10s) almost immediately after got the guitar and there were problems with tuning and intonation. That was predictable. Had the guitar re-intonated at that point. For a few days after that it played OK, then the tuning on the G string went again (intonation is fine for the moment, although I've had to do some tweaking). The strings have been on long enough to be stretched out, but not too long to be the source of the problem. I do typically tune "up," so that could help. I'll also try the pencil lead. I am wondering if the nut might need to be adjusted/filed. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciated.

[budglo]

I am having a similar problem with my LP Studio Deluxe which is pleked.The B and G strings go really flat out of the blue.Thought the string wrap from the factory was to blame.Restrung it.And lubricated the nut .Stretched the strings like I always do.Will be ok for a week and then bam.I am gonna take it to a pro luthier next week.My 2 epis with a plastic nut stay in tune better than my gibson.I suspect the nut slots are to blame.

[Phil White]

Like budglo siad, try tuning, pulling on the strings, and tuning again. I have to do this with my Studio now that I have a bigsby on it.

[Timrobwall]

I am having a similar problem with my LP Studio Deluxe which is pleked.The B and G strings go really flat out of the blue.Thought the string wrap from the factory was to blame.Restrung it.And lubricated the nut .Stretched the strings like I always do.Will be ok for a week and then bam.I am gonna take it to a pro luthier next week.My 2 epis with a plastic nut stay in tune better than my gibson.I suspect the nut slots are to blame.

 

It is the exact same problem to a "T." I saw someone else on another post reference the same issue and the guy talked about getting the nut properly slotted and that it fixed the problem. Probably also going to take it to a luthier, although I expect to hear from Gibson on Monday. Do me a favor and let me know what happens with you? thanks.

[strat-o-steve]

The G strings on my 2 pauls were very inconsistent at first. I stayed with 10's as my string gauge, but I did lube the nut with graphite. Bear with it, play it and tune it......it will get better. Or just take it to a repair guy and have the nut tweaked so the strings do not bind. The Plek machine is a joke. It is only to make production faster and more consistent from piece to piece. Which would be great, if the thing was set up to cut nuts properly. But it can't because some things just take a skilled human touch ;)

[Angellus]

I was about to say about PLEK

 

we were discussing it on another post ahwie ago. The issue is not with the PLEK machine as it works really well the issue is if gibson are using it correctly or at all. also PLEK works best AFTER you have owned the guitar for awhile to let the woods set post construction as guitars all slightly change and what would have been the PLEK calculations during prodecution will not be the calculations 6-12 months later.

 

I use Big Bends nut sauce works a treat but if all else fails the nut will need adjusting

[btoth76]

Had the same with 50's Tribute (and with all my other guitars too). Nut filing solved it, with all three guitars. I also tried the pencil lead thing - it didn't solve the sticking nut problem...

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Tim, perhaps you might try a wound G string. Read on:

 

http://images.onstagemag.com/files/46/0202Setuptxt.html

[Angellus]

Tim, perhaps you might try a wound G string. Read on:

 

http://images.onstag...02Setuptxt.html

 

interesting theory, I have the exact issue with my Gibson SG's G string, I put it down to it being a 'dud' SG but based on this theory a wound G string should solve this issue.

 

I have read a similiar theory but it was more based upon a standard guage string set not being correctly balanced and how the G string and the bottom E string should actually be one guage size higher in the pack then what they are retail packaged. I took the advice with the bottom E String as I play both standard and Drop D and found it to be a big improvement.

 

thing is its a pain in the *** buying a pack of strings then buying singles to substitute the incorrect guages. BUT if we were all sponsered by string companies we could all get our own custom sets made and delivered free of charge.

 

I'm gonna try changing my G string......had the same one on for years

[Bookkeeper's Son]

....thing is its a pain in the *** buying a pack of strings then buying singles to substitute the incorrect guages.

There are a few light gauge sets with wound Gs out there. D'Addario EXL110W and EXL115W (10s and 11s respectively) are what I use.

[Angellus]

There are a few light gauge sets with wound Gs out there. D'Addario EXL110W and EXL115W (10s and 11s respectively) are what I use.

 

ok kool

 

i use d'addario 10's so i'll grab a set

 

thanks

[Angellus]

The answer is the nut not strings if its binding some graphite from a number 2 pencil; fixed. Going from plain to wound would cause more binding points not less with the wraps. So the answer in graphite no do it yourself nut repairs and for sure no adding locking tuners since they are a gimmick for those who have zero clue.

 

So lets recap

 

1 Put on new stings

2 Tune guitar

3 Stretch strings

4 retune

5 repeat as necessary anything else there is a issue with the guitar nut not the strings.

 

if only it were that simple for every guitar I had. new strings and a bit of pencil graphite. Luthiers would be out of a job.

 

I had the same problem as stated in this thread with my SG I followed the pencil lead advice etc an didnt get anywhere. I took it to the shop they got it to "the best they could". A guitar set up is based on mathmatics and science. Pencil graphite and a set of new strings is not always the answer.

 

also a guitar lubricant like Big Bends Nut Sauce works ten times better than pencil graphite IMO doesn't leave black marks and its easier to get into the nut slots of the higher strings.

[Bookkeeper's Son]

A guitar set up is based on mathmatics and science.

So, what math and science does a luthier/technician use when setting up a guitar?

[Angellus]

the information you gave me regarding the wound G string is actually a combination of both

 

science - the tensions involved in string tuning, string vibrations allowing a string enough space away from the fretboard to freely move without contact of the frets or other strings (fret buzz) In an electric guitar the strings create a magnetic wave by waving over the pickups which are magnets that transfer the electrical signal to you lead.

mathamatics - the scale, the length, the tension nut height, fret spacing & height the bridge all require to be within certain measurements and values that are dictated by other factors of the guitars build to be able to achieve the science listed above. This all requires accuracy otherwise you encounter problems such as the problems listed in this thread.

 

Try building a guitar without these and see how it turns out. Its like saying there is no maths in note placements on a fretboard or even a scale. Maths and science where never a favourite subject but unfortunately to be able to understand how a guitar works requires both.

 

[Bookkeeper's Son]

You said, "setup", not "build" or "engineer". I had a feeling about what you meant, but I was amused to think that the average guitar "tech" has a clue about such matters, and maybe he doesn't really need to.....

 

But, of course, tech weenies love all of those numbers, charts, minutae............(yawn)

 

Using a wound G string yields quite pleasant results (ever hear anyone complaining about the G string on their acoustic?), but I posted the link for those who like technical backup for a claim.

[JThunderz]

Yeah, I gotta wonder what the hell is up with the Gibson PLEK machine? I don't think I've ever, and I mean EVER- played a (relatively) new Gibson that didn't have nut problems- the most common occurrence would be the too-tight nut slots where you get the "ping"s or "tink"s and then your tuning totally over-blows the pitch you're aiming for. I've also ran across some pretty rough intonation issues- WTF?! I thought the PLEK machine was supposed to cut a nut within .0001 of a millimeter or something- why can't they get this right?

 

Actually, the only guitar I've bought new (or relatively new) that didn't ping is a Taylor- and a low-end model at that! (The Big Baby) What's up Gibson?

[TorturedZen]

Hello all. My first post so I guess I wear the newbie label for a while here. But if I may add my .02.....

 

As stated by others I had the same problems with my G string, intonation, wonky tuning etc, etc.

My solution was to invest in a bridge and nut upgrade offered by Graph Tech...

Graph Tech Supercharger Kit

 

But as I began to replace the original plastic nut with the TUSQ I concluded that there was a fair amount of sanding and trimming

required (the slots were fine) on the sides and bottom to get the nut to spec, so the job was better suited for my tech.

Other than that the upgrade was painless and it solved all the problems mentioned here. Not to mention adding more sustain and

a bit more chime to my tone.

 

If nothing else upgrade to a better professionally installed nut, stretch the crap outta your new strings, and use the locking wrap on your

tuner posts.

 

-TZ

[mojjett]

I suppose all the above are potential solutions. I guess it depends on how severe the string is binding. What's puzzling is that the OP went from 10s to 9s. I guess the groove was super narrow or not cut very clean. In my case, same thing, binding G, I tried the pencil, it worked fine. Now I just use Fast fret, i.e. mineral oil w/applicator, both for cleaning the strings & lubing nut & saddles all in one shot. Still use the unwound G. No problems scince. I also heard of people using waxed floss in the nut groove. Never tried it myself. cheers

[brokenman]

I changed the strings (yes, 10s) almost immediately after got the guitar and there were problems with tuning and intonation. That was predictable. Had the guitar re-intonated at that point. For a few days after that it played OK, then the tuning on the G string went again (intonation is fine for the moment, although I've had to do some tweaking). The strings have been on long enough to be stretched out, but not too long to be the source of the problem. I do typically tune "up," so that could help. I'll also try the pencil lead. I am wondering if the nut might need to be adjusted/filed. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciated.

 

 

Timrobwall,

Someone mentioned being sure the new strings were properly stretched and you said

"The strings have been on long enough to be stretched out, but not too long to be the source of the problem."

 

Playing the new strings is not the way to get them properly stretched out. Several here have advised to be sure your strings are stretched.

There is a process to stretching in new strings, something like this:

- Guitar flat on your lap.

- With your left hand, fret the first string at the first fret (fret it hard, might need to use thumb with a

cloth around it, as it starts to get uncomfortable after a few stretches).

- Then with your other hand grab the first string about midways down the fretboard and pull up on the string,

slowly, to give it a good stretch. Pull it up 2 or 3 inches, just do it slow so as not to break. Do this to

every string.

- Now retune every string (they should be good and out of tune). After retuning, go through the stretch process

again, all six strings.

- Now retune again. Now stretch again.

- After going through this process 3 or 4 times, you should begin to see the new strings going less and less out

of tune after the stretching part.

- Keep going until they are not going out of tune, or at least not much after being stretched.

 

Now this may not end up solving your problem here. But this process should be done every time you change strings on a guitar. To solve a problem like guitar won't stay in tune, I always start with the easiest and most obvious things that you can do. And here, that would be stretching, and nut grease (or lead pencil shavings applied to nut slots).

 

I will also add this. Once in a great while, I have come upon some strings that were just 'lemons' I guess. They were ok at first, but the more they were played, the worse the problem got. I solved the problem by changing the strings.

 

Hope something in here will help.

[PeBe]

How do you tune? Indeed unwound G is more sensitive, but it really is a matter of tuning.

 

First, use lubrication in the nut so you can bend and tune the string without hitches. Some use graphite, I prefer Big Bend nut sauce as it is cleaner and lasts longer.

 

Second, use equally tempered tuning. By nature’s law, it is impossible to tune a guitar such that all fret positions are in tune. Tuning a fretted string instrument is always one big compromise. Have good ears is not always a blessing. Of course intonation should be right before starting.

 

There are a couple of schemes; I use the ‘master A-string’ method to tune my guitar. Works perfectly. Don’t believe it? Try it.

 

Checkout http://paraglider.hubpages.com/hub/Equal-Temperament-Guitar-Tuning

 

• 
   
  
• Use a concert A tuning fork to tune the 5th string to A. You may use the 5th or 12th fret harmonics if you like, as octaves (and double octaves) are perfect. When the 5th string is tuned, don't alter it again!
  
• Play the 7th fret E on the 5th string (the stopped note, not the harmonic!!)
  
• Tune the open 6th string to this note (one octave down). If you prefer, you can use the 12th fret harmonic for unison tuning.
  
• Again play the 7th fret E on the 5th string
  
• Tune the open 1st string to this note (one octave up). If you prefer, you can use the 19th fret assisted harmonic on Master String 5 for unison tuning.
  
• Play the 5th fret D on the 5th string
  
• Tune the open 4th string to this note (by unison)
  
• Play the 2nd fret B on the 5th string
  
• Tune the open 2nd string to this note (one octave up). If you prefer, you can use the 14th fret assisted harmonic on Master String 5 for unison tuning.
  
• Play the 10th fret G on the 5th string
  
• Tune the open 3rd string to this note (by unison)
  

[adelaide aus]

I must be the luckiest guy in guitar world. I've never had this issue with any of my 6 Gibsons including Traditional Standard and Standard SG. In fact mates who have borrowed them for live gigs comment on how well they stay in tune.

[Kineman Karma]

I must be the luckiest guy in guitar world. I've never had this issue with any of my 6 Gibsons including Traditional Standard and Standard SG. In fact mates who have borrowed them for live gigs comment on how well they stay in tune.

 

Dude I am exactly the same. I think if your axe is well set up with good strings, you will have much less tuning hassles.

[Angellus]

In a perfect world i would agree with you both, but did you all buy your guitars from the shop or the internet?

 

I brought my first Gibson SG from the internet and it had the same issue. I swear online retailers sell the problem guitars or we are all smart enough to know that the guitar dont 'feel' right in the shop therefore dont buy it.

 

as for all the string stretching and other suggestions all I can say is if a Gibson fresh off the shelf with the prices we pay for them aint working right then take the thing back or have someone competent authorised by gibson fix it if your really in love with the feel and finish. Get it sorted now or you will regret it further down the line.

 

little quick fixes only mask the issue they do not correct it.