My MM isnt saying in tune.

[dem00n]

The MM is a great little guitar but the nut and the tuners both have to be changed out if your really gonna seriously going play them. they are just to light weight to really hold string tension especially if you bend or pull strings at all.

 

I have a worn black stock two pickup melody maker on my bench right now for new tuners, a bone nut a complete rewire and a rebuild and rewind on the pickups. It's beens sitting there for a few days while I debate a refinish with myself.

How are these tuners?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Deluxe_Keystones.html

I really dont wanna drill new holes.

[milod]

Usually this time of year I've found guitar tunings going up and down if I haven't played one and fine-tuned it in a week or so, and that's with them always indoors and cased.

 

Ditto when there's a major weather change, usually in January. The rest of the year usually no problems.

 

At least that's some number of years' experience where I live.

 

m

[EVOL!]

I highly doubt it is the tuners. Nine times out of ten it is the nut or the neck is joint is acting up (a lot of SGs suffer from this)

 

If you *are* going to upgrade the tuners, go all the way and get a set with adjustable tension like these

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Super_Rotomatics.html

 

My all time favorite tuners are these.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Sperzel_Trim-Lok_Guitar_Machines,_3L_3R.html

 

You can do a direct swap with no drilling, just need a new small hole for the pin.

[LarryUK]

I'd change the strings again. Perhaps a different brand. It could be duff strings.

[kaleb]

My Sg Special has the stock Klusons on it and it never goes out of tune! I put pencil shavings ( why pay for Big Bends when you can just stick a pencil in it! ) in both the nut slots and saddles. I use Ernie Ball 10-46s and I always try to wind UNDER the string ( Evh's preferred method before he discovered the Floyd ). That way the string won't slip. And I always have at least 2 wraps ( 2-3 is good for the Klusons ). Keep in mind, too many wraps will cause slippage. And my action is higher than Chong in Up in Smoke! I still don't know how I can play that thing! And the neck is VERY fat. I shaved the satin off ( its a Special Faded ), so its bare wood, and its not even oiled but it still keeps tune! I love my Sg. Her and I have a very special bond. Believe me I like all of my Dad's axes ( 07' Limited Edition LP Standard in natural finish with 3pc flame maple neck and non-original Rio Grande Texas BBQ in the bridge, 91' pre-factory PRS CE-24 with 94' CE-24 neck w. rosewood fingerboard rather than the original, heavily-wore out all maple neck, MIM Strat turned into a Black Strat clone which hes guitarsitting, Samick Blues Sarceno TV-20 with custom wound humbuckers and floyd rose, and his newest addition, an Arizona-made Tacoma electro-acoustic ), as well as the local axemen that I ocassionally jam with ( like an 85' MIJ Strat w. System 1 trem ), but I love mine. Its getting a new bridge pup ( a custom wound PAF style ) and 400k pots from my Dad's Les Paul. I can't wait till' that happens!!!!!!

 

 

[Andy R]

I highly doubt it is the tuners. Nine times out of ten it is the nut or the neck is joint is acting up (a lot of SGs suffer from this)

 

If you *are* going to upgrade the tuners, go all the way and get a set with adjustable tension like these

 

http://www.stewmac.c...Rotomatics.html

 

My all time favorite tuners are these.

 

http://www.stewmac.c...nes,_3L_3R.html

 

You can do a direct swap with no drilling, just need a new small hole for the pin.

 

Hmmmm...... IMHO I would say we would need a bit more info to come to any real conclusion. The Gibson deluxe tuners are pretty poor and only get worst over time. If the neck joint were "acting up" (I assume you mean coming loose) then there would be some pretty evident signs like the action getting higher and finish cracks at the seam. I have an SG biggest tuning issue ( tuning keys) ....

 

The nut could be a factor but generally that will cause a string to catch while trying to tune and if you tune up and yank on the string a bit even that would be more of an annoyance than anything. Obviously this would be more of an issue if he were using a trem bridge....

 

If the guitar is tuned up and is going flat over time ( without playing it) something is slipping or stretching somewhere.... Strings or tuning keys/ both.... If it is more drastic like popping, poor action, etc... I would look in the areas you proposed as well.

 

 

I guess if the neck pops off we will have our definitive conclusion

 

 

 

Andy

[EVOL!]

Andy,

 

I will defer to you on this topic. Your knowledge of guitar construction makes mine look jr. high at best. I am just conveying (perhaps blindly) what I have read on the internet when researching tuning problems I had with an old plum SG Special. That sucker would not stay in tune for anything, even after swapping out the tuners for a set of Grover Super Rotomatics (man, did they look cool) and having a graphite nut cut by a trusted luthier. A lot of people were talking about SGs and the because of the length of the neck and where the neck joint is, it is subject to flakiness if you play with any sort of force. They didn't mean the neck would pop out. They just meant the neck was subject to vibrations which I assumed were a lot like a pole vaulter's pole. One point they kept hammering was that you could put the most deluxe tuners on that guitar and you would still have tuning problems.

 

Am I making sense or is this post pure rubbish?

[Andy R]

Andy,

 

I will defer to you on this topic. Your knowledge of guitar construction makes mine look jr. high at best. I am just conveying (perhaps blindly) what I have read on the internet when researching tuning problems I had with an old plum SG Special. That sucker would not stay in tune for anything, even after swapping out the tuners for a set of Grover Super Rotomatics (man, did they look cool) and having a graphite nut cut by a trusted luthier. A lot of people were talking about SGs and the because of the length of the neck and where the neck joint is, it is subject to flakiness if you play with any sort of force. They didn't mean the neck would pop out. They just meant the neck was subject to vibrations which I assumed were a lot like a pole vaulter's pole. One point they kept hammering was that you could put the most deluxe tuners on that guitar and you would still have tuning problems.

 

Am I making sense or is this post pure rubbish?

 

Evol, I appreciate the compliment and wasn't trying to come off like a "know it all" if I did. I get what you are saying. My point was until you know the conditions under which the guitar is going out of tune then it could be anything or combinations of things causing the issue with tuning stability.

 

I would say where the neck joint is located (19th fret) might make the neck a little less "Stable" concerning flexing and being more sensitive to tuning changes and by that I mean the action will change greatly if you are tuned sharp or flat ( by the way my old explorers are joined at the 19th fret too) I don't see this as a reason for tuning issues unless you play very heavy handed and are pushing or pulling on the neck pretty hard and that is a different issue all together. Even then ( in theory the guitar should go back to tune when you are not applying any force to the neck. Over all an SG does take a lighter touch to play. They are kinda like playing a guitar with a "floating Floyd Rose"

 

As far as the nut I can see where that could be somewhat of an issue if the string is slightly hanging in the slot but.... even when you are bending there is very little movement of the string through the nut slot and the string should have more than enough tension to "snap back" if this were the issue then you should be able to lightly lift the flat string out of the slot and in theory it should be back in tune. ( if the string has been properly stretched and is holding)

 

The most common mistake I see guitarist make ( even some that have been playing for a long time) is when a string is sharp they tune down to pitch which leaves slack on the string and tuner post. Then when they play or bend they pull the slack out and put tension back on the post and the string will go (and stay) flat.

 

Another Mistake people make when they put new strings on is stretching them from a single point on the string. They will pull up and stretch just from a point in the pick up area. This causes the string to stretch more in one or two points as opposed to stretching evenly over the length of the whole string.

 

When I put on new strings I usually tune up about a whole step above pitch and let them sit a while. Then I use my thumb and three fingers where my three fingers are pushing up on the string and my thumb is pushing down and run up and down the length of the whole string. This stretches the string evenly and in the direction(s) you bend the string normally.

 

I also don't "Over wrap" the string on the post and also make sure that the strings don't over lap on the post. I also leave about an 8th" of the string sticking the post hole.

 

I bend a lot and like to do the David Gilmour/SRV "over bend" and my guitars stay in tune pretty damn well.

 

If the strings are properly stretched. The neck and bridge are properly adjusted. The nut slots cut the right depth etc... then the main culprit for guitars not staying in tune for a "playing session" is string stretching or slipping on the post or the tuner its self is slipping.

 

Strings can also be wound incorrectly where the wrap will actually be slipping around the string core on wound strings and or the ball wrap will slip on wound or unwound strings. I have also seen unwound strings that have noticeable "thin" spots or inconsistencies along the length of the string....

 

 

Andy

[rct]

Since the guitar player issue that had The Knot, somewhere mid-70's, I haven't wrapped a single string around a post on a single one of probably more than a hundred guitars. There is not a need to ever wrap a string, it is a waste of time and causes more problems than most newer to newish to been around a couple years players can handle.

 

String goes through the post, half a turn around, up and under the string coming through the post, done. It tightens on itself, that's all it ever needed.

 

I don't know why people wrap strings. I have not ever had a problem that could be attributed to not wrapping strings, and people constantly have problems directly attributed TO wrapping strings.

 

Don't get it.

 

Should prolly have a thread about stringing guitars.

 

rct

[Andy R]

Since the guitar player issue that had The Knot, somewhere mid-70's, I haven't wrapped a single string around a post on a single one of probably more than a hundred guitars. There is not a need to ever wrap a string, it is a waste of time and causes more problems than most newer to newish to been around a couple years players can handle.

 

String goes through the post, half a turn around, up and under the string coming through the post, done. It tightens on itself, that's all it ever needed.

 

I don't know why people wrap strings. I have not ever had a problem that could be attributed to not wrapping strings, and people constantly have problems directly attributed TO wrapping strings.

 

Don't get it.

 

Should prolly have a thread about stringing guitars.

 

rct

 

Agreed the "knot" technique works well. My only problem with it is it can be a pain to get loose and you sometimes have to snip it to get the string removed from the post. Not a big deal but I have been in situations without any snips and have gotten pretty agitated with it. I usually wrap about 4 times around the post.

 

This is just my little theory and probably doesn't actually make a shites bit of difference but I feel like having a bit more of the string wrapped around the post transfers a bit more of the string vibration through the headstock.... Probably silly but I do it any way....

 

 

Andy

[EVOL!]

 

Evol, I appreciate the compliment and wasn't trying to come off like a "know it all" if I did.

 

 

It's all good. For as many years as I have been playing, it has only been in the past few that I have delved into guitar maintenance beyond setups. Hell, I swapped in a pre-cut nut on my new SG Classic two weeks ago and almost fell over with excitement that could do it without cracking the headstock's veneer, checking the finish, scratching the fretboard, or warping the nut's channel. And then I remember what you did to that Les Paul. Yeah, I have a ways to go.

[Thundergod]

( those tuners do blow)

 

 

You got that right, they might work fine when they are new but with (a little) time they end up being just junk. Happened to mine, changed them and the problem ended, but the new tuners don't have that cheap old look to them that I love on MMs

[Guest farnsbarns]

You got that right, they might work fine when they are new but with (a little) time they end up being just junk. Happened to mine, changed them and the problem ended, but the new tuners don't have that cheap old look to them that I love on MMs

 

I've had klusons on an 02 standard for nearly a decade, played it hard too, no issues at all. Recently sold it and I know it's new owner has no issues either. I've had a set on an epi SG which I put on there 13 years ago and no problems yet and my nephew has been abusing that for the last 5 years.

[Andy R]

I've had klusons on an 02 standard for nearly a decade, played it hard too, no issues at all. Recently sold it and I know it's new owner has no issues either. I've had a set on an epi SG which I put on there 13 years ago and no problems yet and my nephew has been abusing that for the last 5 years.

 

The actual Klusons seem to be better than the "Kluson Style" that Gibson has been using....