hbpatter83 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I exchanged a few emails with Jon at the Tube Store and told him what I liked and what I didn't like about the sound of my 96 US made Fender Blues Deluxe. He came up with set that he thought would give a good sound for what I like to play... Blues, Jazz with My LP or my 335. So, a couple of Winged C 6L6GC's and some Tungsol 12AX7's are coming plus one JAN-Philips 5751 to replace one of the 12AX7's in the V1 position that he said would provide an even better vintage tone. Hey... sounds good to me! I'll give it a try. I have had that amp for 10 years and have never replaced the Sovtek's that are in it. I bought it used so for all I know they could be the originals. Do tubes degrade over time? Or is it simply a good or bad thing.. either they work or they don't? They should be here early next week so I'll update you on the results. Thanks again HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The JAN-Philips (NOS or lightly used, I assume) should be a good choice for V1 but watch out for the amount of gain you use as the Tung-Sols are pretty bright and hot - great for high gain and I love them in V1 in my Mesa for type of music I play, but might be a bit much if you're into more mellow tones. But, it depends on the amp and how the gain stages work. Tubes do go over time, mostly power tubes; preamp tubes can last a long time. All of that is dependent on how often you use the amp and how hard you drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 The JAN-Philips (NOS or lightly used' date=' I assume) should be a good choice for V1 but watch out for the amount of gain you use as the Tung-Sols are pretty bright and hot - great for high gain and I love them in V1 in my Mesa for type of music I play, but might be a bit much if you're into more mellow tones. But, it depends on the amp and how the gain stages work. Tubes do go over time, mostly power tubes; preamp tubes can last a long time. All of that is dependent on how often you use the amp and how hard you drive it.[/quote'] Thanks RichCI.. The JAN-Phillips must have been NOS.. It didn't say anything about used. I'm not really spun up on tubes so I didn't know those were discontinued. Also, this is the first time I've ever ventured into playing with the tubes to get a different sound. I don't play the amp much and when I last played it it seemed a bit bright and seemed to lack sustain. That could be me but my new LP has plenty of sustain even when not plugged in compared to my other guitars so I was surprized that it didn't show much when playing the blues deluxe. Of course I can't crank it in the house so I may not be getting into the good sounding region. I hope the Tung-Sols don't make it even brighter. Hopefully the JAN-P will get me a warmer sound. We'll see. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the amp. If so, and these tubes don't help I may get rid of it and get something else. My comparitor is my cheap little VOX 15R practice amp that sounds really good.. for a cheap little amp. My LP sustains nicely through it and sustains better than my other guitars all with maple necks so that's what I expected. The 15R has a very nice tone and chords and individual notes are well defined and balanced. I was hoping the Blues Deluxe would be better but unfortunately it seem's to be all over the place and the chords are a little muddy through it. So it's the 15R that I usually play through. I'm a little confused why I can't get the blues deluxe to sound better. I'm hoping the tubes will help. I'll let you all know the results. There may be a Fender Blues Deluxe for sale if no difference. Thanks HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Thanks RichCI.. The JAN-Phillips must have been NOS.. It didn't say anything about used. I'm not really spun up on tubes so I didn't know those were discontinued. Also' date=' this is the first time I've ever ventured into playing with the tubes to get a different sound.[/quote'] Just so you don't get your hopes up TOO high, changing tubes can make a difference, but your amp is still going to sound like the same amp. I equate tube swapping to changing brands of strings - it's more about tweaking than causing anything dramatic. I don't play the amp much and when I last played it it seemed a bit bright and seemed to lack sustain. That could be me but my new LP has plenty of sustain even when not plugged in compared to my other guitars so I was surprized that it didn't show much when playing the blues deluxe. Of course I can't crank it in the house so I may not be getting into the good sounding region. I hope the Tung-Sols don't make it even brighter. Hopefully the JAN-P will get me a warmer sound. We'll see. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the amp. If so' date=' and these tubes don't help I may get rid of it and get something else.[/quote'] The JAN should help scale back the brightness a bit. Sustain is really a product of mostly the guitar when playing at lower levels. You'll get more by cranking up any amp, particularly a tube amp, to the point where you're getting some compression and some feedback (the good kind). IMO, the Tung-Sols are going to be similar to the stock tubes in the amp. My BJ probably came with the same tubes as what was in your Blues Deluxe and I found no difference between those and the Tung-Sols that I put in the BJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 Thanks again RichCI It's really no loss if it doesn't change much. I was originally just going to buy new tubes for spares since the original Sovteks could go at any time. But since I'm getting new ones I might as well try something different and maybe change the amp a bit. Even a slight change might be better. Before I actually get rid of it I may take it out to the garage and open that baby up and see how it sings.. That's probably what it was really meant to do. For in the house.. it's probably better to stick with small amps anyway. I guess I'll just have to find a band to play in to give the deluxe a work out. HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I have had that amp for 10 years and have never replaced the Sovtek's that are in it. I bought it used so for all I know they could be the originals. Do tubes degrade over time? Or is it simply a good or bad thing.. either they work or they don't? They should be here early next week so I'll update you on the results. Thanks again HP Glad the TubeStore worked out for ya, HP! I love those guys. And those Phillips JAN 5751 are NOS. I bought some from them as well and have used them a lot to reduce V1 gain in various amps. They have about 70% of a 12AX7's gain - a bit hotter than the 12AT7 at 60% of 12 AX7 gain. I love 'em. Tubes certainly degrade over time, but that time seems to vary greatly depending upon things like amp type, plate voltage, how hard the amp is pushed, and just plain randomness. Some tubes have lasted for 30 or 40 years, while other might make it a year. I find a tube tester comes in handy. I agree with Rich, it's best to try a number of different tubes to find the ones that sound best in your amp. After a while you'll have a box full of 'em which makes it easier to tweak a new amp. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Glad the TubeStore worked out for ya' date=' HP! I love those guys. And those Phillips JAN 5751 are NOS. I bought some from them as well and have used them a lot to reduce V1 gain in various amps. They have about 70% of a 12AX7's gain - a bit hotter than the 12AT7 at 60% of 12 AX7 gain. I love 'em. Tubes certainly degrade over time, but that time seems to vary greatly depending upon things like amp type, plate voltage, how hard the amp is pushed, and just plain randomness. Some tubes have lasted for 30 or 40 years, while other might make it a year. I find a tube tester comes in handy. I agree with Rich, it's best to try a number of different tubes to find the ones that sound best in your amp. After a while you'll have a box full of 'em which makes it easier to tweak a new amp. Have fun! [/quote'] Thanks for passing on your experience (and Rich too). I wouldn't have known where to start and based on their recommendations, and your thumbs up for the choice, I have a good start. Have you gotten some good waves from all of those storms going up the Atlantic? Wish I was there. HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Have you gotten some good waves from all of those storms going up the Atlantic? Wish I was there. HP Yeah, we've gotten lucky quite a few times this year. Good storms that stayed offshore and kicked up surf. Not a bad sumer overall. And since the water's still in the upper 70's we will probably be able to surf for another month without needing rubber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 I got the tubes and did some comparisons. I first played it again with the original sovtek's and it seemed to sound better than the last time. That's a little weird.. but it still had the overly bright side to it. I then cranked up the volume... there's no substitute for volume as most of you know. Sounded pretty nice. I then replaced all of the Sovtek's with the new ones (mentioned above) installing all 3 new 12A7X7's. I left the guitar and the amp at the same volume and tone settings from the previous test (lower volume setting). I didn't hear much difference if any. I started to crank up the volume and I believe that I got more crunch earlier than I did with all Sovtek's. I'd say that's about all I noticed. If I had played that amp and others on a regular basis I may have heard more. As Rich mentioned it wouldn't be anything dramatic. I then replaced the V1 position 12AX7 with the 5157 and went through the same test. That made a difference.. I'm not going to say it turned it into a new amp or anything but it did take a noticeable edge off of the overly bright characteristic. Joe at the Tube Store said it would give a more vintage tone and I would have to agree and that's a good way to explain the difference. It brought it much closer to the sound I like from my little VOX amp. It's hard to decribe but vintage seem's to be about the best. Warmer I guess. It also gives a touch of crunch at lower volumes (not really low) that is very nice. So, overall I'm very happy with the tube change and would have to say the 5157 is the biggest bang for the buck. I'm glad I got the others too since I really needed to re-tube and now I have some spares if I'm in a bind. Thanks again for your help Surfpup and Rich. HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Thanks for the update; glad the tubes worked out. Maybe I'll give one of those JAN Phillips a try in the V1 of my Blues Junior - lord knows that amp is insanely bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Thanks for the update; glad the tubes worked out. Maybe I'll give one of those JAN Phillips a try in the V1 of my Blues Junior - lord knows that amp is insanely bright. I'd give it a go with the Jr. If you buy just the JAN Phillips 5751 for the V1 position it would be a reasonable expense at $20.00. I think it's worth a try to tame that brightness. HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachd33 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Some tubes have lasted for 30 or 40 years' date=' while other might make it a year. I find a tube tester comes in handy. [/quote'] Where is the best place to get a tube tester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Nahum Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Did you change the output tubes? If so, are you aware that you need to get the amp rebiased? RN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Did you change the output tubes? If so' date=' are you aware that you need to get the amp rebiased? RN [/quote'] I checked into that before replacing the tubes and found that the bias on the Fender BD is not adjustable. Basically just plug and play. Thanks HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Where is the best place to get a tube tester? eBay is loaded with them. That's where I got mine. I don't know if any companies actually make them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachd33 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 eBay is loaded with them. That's where I got mine. I don't know if any companies actually make them anymore. thanx a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.