Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I've been through so many amps it's getting to be ridiculous. I'm looking for an all-tube amp that is capable of high gain but can sound good at bedroom volumes. I don't think one exists yet. I had some nice tube amps in the past, but they were way too much for what I need and I could never crank them sufficiently to get the full benefit of the overdriven tubes. I had a 100 watt Laney TI-100 which was insanely loud to the point where I couldn't put the volume past 2. Then I had an Orange Rocker 30 with 2x12 cab. Same deal there, even at 30 watts, it's way too loud to crank up the master volume. I also found that the top gain wasn't really enough for what I like at times. I also had an ENGL Fireball that had plenty of gain, but again at 60 watts, it was super overkill. I got a BH5/112 last week but after trying it out it doesn't have nearly enough gain for me and not even enough clean headroom for me to use a distortion box and get any kind of decent volume. Right now I am reduced to a VOX AVT30-XL until I find the right tube amp. The amp I am most interested in is this Egnater Rebel-20: http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Egnater-Rebel-20-20W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483496 That amp isn't available yet but I had a detailed conversation with an Egnater rep. He told me that the top gain is about like a JCM800 with a slight boost. My first question to you guys is will a JCM800 type sound provide me with enough gain to easily do the pinch harmonics? I guess I'll need some kind of overdrive too and have my eye on the Fulltone(thanks Surfpup). I have no problem with using distortion boxes for high gain, but I'm not sure how much clean headroom this amp has. Although I need an amp capable of sounding good at bedroom volumes, I still want to have the ability to crank it up at times(within reason). The big feature on this Egnater is that it can be selected anywhere between 1 and 20 watts. The other amp I was considering is the KranK Rev Jr. Pro. This is 2 channel and should have plenty of gain but again, even at 20 watts its going to be tough to ever crank it up. The clean channel is a nice feature though. Is there some other brand I am overlooking? I'd like to keep the total under $1,000.00 for a head and 1x12 cab. I know this amp business has been discussed alot around here but I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRom Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 You don't need a JCM to do pinch harmonics, any ol' distortion will work, amp, pedal, whatever. 20 watts is still far too loud for a bedroom amp, set your sights lower, 1 - 5 watt range. Try the Orange Tiny Terror, Crate V8, Epiphone Vale Jr., anything in that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Well, that Egnater is variable from 1 to 20 watts. So 1 watt is setting my sites pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Well, that Egnater is variable from 1 to 20 watts. So 1 watt is setting my sites pretty low. I want a separate amp and cab. Hi-gain capable. I have considered the Tiny Terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I dont mean to sound like a broken record but... THD Hotplate. It turns a lion into a smaller lion but with the same roar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Oh man! Thanks for pointing that out deepblue. OK, so I could go for the KranK Rev Jr and run one of these thru it which should solve my problem of wanting hi-gain at low volumes it seems. How do these things hook up? Is it just with cables? Also, how do I know which one to get. I'm psyched right now - this could be the answer to my problems with amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 OK, I think I see now. You just go thru the back with cables and have to match the ohms to whatever your amp has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Wolff... Yes, its pretty simple to set up. You just need to match the ohms thats all. My Orange is a 16 ohm. So I use the blue Hotplate. They are colour coded. It goes between the head and the cabinet. It fools the head into thinking that the Hotplate is the speaker. So you can get total tube saturation without pissing off the neighbours! lol Remember to use speaker cables, not guitar cables. Guitar cables arent designed to carry that load and it could damage your amplifier. Another good thing....They are passive. They dont need electricity to work. Its a great investment. I dont use distortion pedals or anything anymore. I get all the cream I need without the ear damage. Let me know how you make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I dont mean to sound like a broken record but...THD Hotplate. It turns a lion into a smaller lion but with the same roar. Definitely worth a try, but they can turn some amps into very thin sounding lions! We tried one on my buddy's 50 watt Marshall and it sounded like bees in a can. However, another friend of ours loves his. Just seems to vary. Some swear by the Weber Mass attenuators also. I use their Mini Mass on my Fenders. Sounds good, but some of the fullness is lost. I find I can get a good low volume practice tone out of the Tiny Terror, but it sounds better louder, so I usually turn it up a bit. I think the Killer Ant might be the practice amp ticket - gotta play one soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 i had an 80's jcm800 that was beautiful. two channels - one clean, one as dirty as you'd like it. (sounds like an album title!) it died and i had no tech experience so i got a fender hot rod deville. these amps still have the best clean sound and reverb on the market but dirty it loses dimension. i sold it for a tiny terror/1X12 cab and thought i'd found mecca though, being 15w, it had no clean headroom in a live/practice setting. it had to be miked which isnt always possible. i traded up for the rocker30 head and life is very good now. you can get everything you want, tonally, out of this amp. i suppose with pedals you could augment the distortion if you needed an insane setting. i love the clean channel - i play my acoustic through it and use the other channel for electric, dirtied up just a bit with a digital reverb/delay pedal. heaven is not cheap, however. $1900 for the whole set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 cunkhead - I also had an Orange Rocker 30 with the 2x12 cab. I commented about it in the initial post. Maybe there is something I'm doing wrong, but I found that a cranked 30 watts is way, way to loud for household use most of the time and I didn't think it had quite enough top gain for my tastes. I like to be able to play stuff like Pantera, Down and yes...go ahead and make fun of me....SlipKnoT(ironically, one of their guitarists endorses Orange). I appreciate all this advice guys...keep it coming. Right now I'm leaning towards the Krank + THD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Hey Wolff, I know you said that $1,000 is your budget, but are you willing to go over that? The only thing I can think of is getting two amps. Obviously, that costs $$, but one doesn't cut it sometimes. I've got a 100W Marshall Stack when I want to piss off the neighbors, a Vox AC15 (15W) for everyday use and I'm probably buying a 5W Fender Super Champ just so I can crank it all the time. The AC15 is a sweet little amp, but it doesn't have high gain. As for suggesting an amp...well, my preferences are listed above. For you though, you live in Boston and I'm sure there are a few music stores that you could waste some time in. I say go into each store, see what amps they have to offer and just get a feel for each one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Definitely worth a try' date=' but they can turn some amps into very thin sounding lions! We tried one on my buddy's 50 watt Marshall and it sounded like bees in a can. However, another friend of ours loves his. Just seems to vary. Some swear by the Weber Mass attenuators also. I use their Mini Mass on my Fenders. Sounds good, but some of the fullness is lost. I find I can get a good low volume practice tone out of the Tiny Terror, but it sounds better louder, so I usually turn it up a bit. I think the Killer Ant might be the practice amp ticket - gotta play one soon. [/quote'] I hear you. I set my Hotplate no higher then -12db...even -8db sometimes. If you set it all the way to -16db the sound does get very over compressed. It starts to sound like theres a blanket over the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Keep up the discussion guys. Thanks. Yeah Tim, I'd be willing to go over a grand in order to get the right amp(s). I'm pretty familiar with most of the available brands and I still have the same problem - there is no low-watt hi-gain amp available really. That kind of leaves me with using a THD but now from what deepblue and Surfpup are saying I could run into trouble - this is making me nervous now just when I though everything was finally settled! heh. THe choices seem to be: KranK Rev. Jr. 20 watt +THD Hotplate Egnater Rebel 20 Orange Tiny Terror I was also looking at this head to maybe supplement the setup and use it clean with a dist. box. I dunno, looks kinda cheesy though. You get what you pay for probably. http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Crate-V-Series-V33H-33W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=487052 BTW, is there anyone here who owns a KranK amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I'm such a bad influence on people around here. Q: Which Les Paul should I buy? My A: A $3,000+ reissue! Q: Which amp should I buy? My A: Buy two! Sorry guys...:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Worth discussing here... to pedal or not to pedal. I know you mentioned in your PMs, Wolff, that you wanted to avoid using pedal for gain/overdrive/distortion. Most people I know use them though. Some of it has to do with volume obviously - the 50 or 100 watt Marshall without a master vol (plexi) sound that many of us crave is not gonna happen unless we are playing stadiums! To me my own best sounds have always been tube amps with a pedal (or two) driving them, not the tube amps alone. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Ok Surfpup, let's discuss. Ideally it would be nice to not use pedals but I have no problem with them. What I'd like to do is use the amps natural distortion along with some kind of pedal if necessary to get a hi-gain, tight distortion. I'd prefer to not rely on the amps clean sound and then use a pedal to get all the distortion. That Egnater looks awful tempting but what if when I have the gain all the way up and it doesn't provide me with the amount of gain/tightness I sometimes use? What pedal would you suggest? Just an overdrive? Note, I am strictly a rhythm player. I'm also concerned that it won't have enough clean headroom to use a distortion box for my metal fix. The big problem here is that this amp is not out yet and I can't try it. My questions still are relevant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 cunkhead - I also had an Orange Rocker 30 with the 2x12 cab. I commented about it in the initial post. Maybe there is something I'm doing wrong' date=' but I found that a cranked 30 watts is way, way to loud for household use most of the time and I didn't think it had quite enough top gain for my tastes. I like to be able to play stuff like Pantera, Down and yes...go ahead and make fun of me....SlipKnoT(ironically, one of their guitarists endorses Orange). I appreciate all this advice guys...keep it coming. Right now I'm leaning towards the Krank + THD. [/quote'] sorry, my ADD prevented me from reading your entire post! lol! i loved the specs on the Egnater - nice tube mix and variety of tones. i wish i'd had a chance to play one before i took my dive. if you want to drive it at a household volume, the tiny terror is really nice. i also use a line6 pod direct into the computer w/headphones. many accurate amp models/effects to chose from and no one can hear a thing except for your seemingly unplugged electric. headphones are also a way to kid yourself, in a good way, using the basic dynamics of sound themselves. the decibel level is higher due to the smaller ear canal size/volume so you get feeling you're cranked. i always use headphones at home and when i go out to play, nothing ever seems loud enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 In case I have to go with a distortion box, here are the two I had in mind: http://www.mieffects.com/cbinbrief.htm http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/effects-pedals/sfx04_twin_tube/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Now I really want one of these KranK amps. In case that hotplate doesn't work well with it I guess the neighbors are just going to have to suffer. Here is the Guitar World review if any of you guys have time to take a look. That's the first model. The one I'm looking at has a 3 band EQ for the kleen channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 If too much noise is an issue where you live then avoid the Tiny Terror. Great little amp but really needs cranked to hear the benefits and I always thought it was too loud for the house. I sold it to a guy who gig's with it. Flight959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRom Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Well' date=' that Egnater is variable from 1 to 20 watts. So 1 watt is setting my sites pretty low. I want a separate amp and cab. Hi-gain capable. I have considered the Tiny Terror. [/quote'] You know I didn't even notice that the first time I took a look. Seems like the perfect solution, low watts for around the house and a little more ompf for when you get out. I like it. In fact, that amp is so cool that now I'm gassing for one ... thanks a lot ... My Amp is switchable from 15 to 30 watts which suites my situations just fine. The hotplates, speaker load simulator type things, good idea but sooo expensive. Could buy a 2nd amp for that much dough ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Flight, yup, that's the issue, the KranK at 20 watts is too loud for home use so I'll have to hope a hotplate works well or else have a lot of pissed-off neighbors. After seeing that KranK amp demo I gotta have me all that insane gain. BTW, you have an LP Goddess, eh? I had one in ebony that I set up similar to my ebony LP Standard except I had EMG HZs in there. I eventually traded in in towards my Standard a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I use a Chandler Tube Driver (built off the old Butler schematic) to get that killer tone at lower volumes. Not sure how it compares to the OCD pedal (gotta get to a music store and find oout tho!!), but it was worled really well for me. Auction 1 Auction 2 (buy it now for almost what it cost brand new) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 How about buying a used Variac?.....It would scare the hell outta me, but some of you fellas may be braver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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