Lammas Day Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 First off – I know there’s no right answer to this, it’s going to be a matter of opinion, but as I’m new and because I’ve not 100% sure where I stand myself, I thought it was an interesting point to raise and I’d be genuinely interested in what people think. By the way, I’m not talking about repairs or replacing faulty items, just changing working items. I’ve spoken to a lot of guitarist who’ll proudly state – Yeah, the first thing I do when I buy a guitar is replace the pots/bridge/machine heads/trem/strip the electrics – I just think – WHY!? My first thought is SURLEY in the world of guitars, if you’re not happy with the tone, the shape, the electrics there’s going to be another make, style, model out there for you that is right - right? If my old lady was here, she’d say – It’s a man thing. I’m inclined to agree. I’m as guilty as anyone, you buy something, you cherish it, then after 6 months you think – I wonder what’d happen if I took that out and put it on backwards? For me the answer is normally, fire. I’ve done it with computers, cars – so I suppose I can’t blame anyone for doing it with a guitar. It’s an admirable quality and what seperates us from the monkeys (not the 60’s band, the mammal), the desire to improve and make better, quicker, stronger, more efficient. But there is another issue here for me, that of ART. I don’t think I’d be in the minority when I said I thought of guitars as an Art form- they aren’t just wooden musical sticks right? Sometimes I’ll just get down my Ebony SG Standard and stroke the neck... maybe I shouldn’t of mentioned that. But seriously, it’s like f[]cking polished marble – I know I’m not on my own there. There is something as deeply beautiful as that I love about all my guitars, one thing or another. So as art should we guitar lovers have respect for the item and the artist that put it together? Put another way. Say you prefer blondes over brunettes. You spend $100million on the Mona Lisa, cherish it for 6 weeks, then decide you’re going to paint her hair yellow because YOU think it’ll look better, don’t care what Da Vinci thought – that’s wrong isn’t it? Maybe not, some might say $100 million is a lot of money, but its your money so you can do what you want. But for me, when I buy a guitar, it’s not just a wooden musical stick, it’s got history, people have spent months or years choosing materials, components, each component has been made, modified, changed, it’s all been designed put together and sold as a finished item, a finished piece. Call me an idiot, but I’d rather live with a guitar with flaws, then change it’s character. If it’s characteristics were so against my tastes, I’d rather just sell it and buy a guitar I did appreciate. BUT hey ho, like I said, there’s no right or wrong answer, but I know they’ll be plenty of people out there that love guitars as much as me but feel COMPLETLEY POLES APART DIFFERENT to my attitude to modifying, and I’d genuinely like to hear from you guys and learn a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Whatever you do, don't even question the "blue label" mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Whenever I get a new guitar, the only thing that I usually change is the stock knobs to speed knobs. -That's just because they enhance the functionality for the guitar to me. I did change a set of pickups once, and I am currently about to replace a set of pots on one of my LP Specials (because they're dying). I don't really think changing pups, or putting a new bridge could fall under the vandalism category. But changing something like the physical appearance, that could be considered (IMHO) going to far. A while back, there was a picture thread over on the SG section of the forums (I'll try to find the thread). -The owner had cut the horns off of the SG, making it look more like something you'd paddle a canoe with than write some riffs. That was a bummer. I don't even think refinishing is bad, as long as it's done tastefully. One thing people should think about before making any major changes to their guitar is: "Is this going to effect the value should I decide to sell this thing?" I check Craigslist and eBay often for cool amps, or Gibsons, and the first thing that I look for is how modded it is. I go for things that are as stock or close to stock as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 For me If it's a 70's - 80 Gibson I change out the frets If it's a 1989-2011 Gibson I change out the pickups to 70's pickups. (P-90's are the exception. IMO the newer P90's sound better than the vintage) I've modded the crap out of two Gibby's. (2008 LPJ and 2009 Joan Jett Melody Maker). IMO it's all good..... At the end of the day it's your guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 ...IMO it's all good..... At the end of the day it's your guitar [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 My opinion is that it's not vandalism if someone mods their own guitar. I personally don't do too many mods, but that's just because I'm usually afraid I'll screw something up. Plus I don't have too much spare time to spend on big projects. Most of the times, I wait until there's a problem and then I mod whatever I need to correct it. Now this got me thinking: I've changed the pickups and bridge saddles in my MIM Strat but still don't play it because the frets are f#&*ed. Maybe I'll just dive in and attempt a re-fret myself. What's the worst that can happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Unless you don't own the guitar it really couldn't be called vandalism. Depending on the guitar the person is making modifications to it might be considered a bad financial move. Depending on the history of the guitar it might be irresponsible. While guitars are ( or can be) beautiful works of art, in today's world they are the equivalents of "print reproductions" as opposed to Individual "One of a kind works of art" Given this, I think the choice to modify or not is up to the person who owns the guitar. Too me having a guitar that looks identical to a 100,000 does not make it unique and part of the fun of owning a guitar is making it "Your Own" . There aren't many guitars currently produced by the major companies that will ever have any real future value like the stuff produced before 1980. Especially the 50's and 60's stuff. If I owned a late 50's Les Paul that was all original but the frets were wore out or something was making it unplayable I would fix it or change it. Regardless of how much it is devalued. If I bought it to play and not for an investment I would want it to be playable. Guitars that you can only look at are worthless in my opinion.... My 2 Cents Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 >>>To me, guitars are nothing more than what you said "A wooden musical stick" To me they are a tool, not a piece of art. Whatever someone wants to do to their guitar is their own business, whether it be covering a Squier Strat in duct tape, or drawing smiley faces with sharpie on a 59' paul. If people consider their own guitars art, good for them, once again they have the right to do nothing to it.?I personally love changing guitars and making them my own.> >>>As we all know, Pete Townshend was known for destroying guitars on stage. I personally have no problem with this, they're his guitars to do with as he wishes, I personally would never destroy a guitar, but his guitars are his to do with as he pleases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 First off – I know there’s no right answer to this, it’s going to be a matter of opinion, but as I’m new and because I’ve not 100% sure where I stand myself, I thought it was an interesting point to raise and I’d be genuinely interested in what people think. By the way, I’m not talking about repairs or replacing faulty items, just changing working items. I’ve spoken to a lot of guitarist who’ll proudly state – Yeah, the first thing I do when I buy a guitar is replace the pots/bridge/machine heads/trem/strip the electrics – I just think – WHY!? My first thought is SURLEY in the world of guitars, if you’re not happy with the tone, the shape, the electrics there’s going to be another make, style, model out there for you that is right - right? If my old lady was here, she’d say – It’s a man thing. I’m inclined to agree. I’m as guilty as anyone, you buy something, you cherish it, then after 6 months you think – I wonder what’d happen if I took that out and put it on backwards? For me the answer is normally, fire. I’ve done it with computers, cars – so I suppose I can’t blame anyone for doing it with a guitar. It’s an admirable quality and what seperates us from the monkeys (not the 60’s band, the mammal), the desire to improve and make better, quicker, stronger, more efficient. But there is another issue here for me, that of ART. I don’t think I’d be in the minority when I said I thought of guitars as an Art form- they aren’t just wooden musical sticks right? Sometimes I’ll just get down my Ebony SG Standard and stroke the neck... maybe I shouldn’t of mentioned that. But seriously, it’s like f[]cking polished marble – I know I’m not on my own there. There is something as deeply beautiful as that I love about all my guitars, one thing or another. So as art should we guitar lovers have respect for the item and the artist that put it together? Put another way. Say you prefer blondes over brunettes. You spend $100million on the Mona Lisa, cherish it for 6 weeks, then decide you’re going to paint her hair yellow because YOU think it’ll look better, don’t care what Da Vinci thought – that’s wrong isn’t it? Maybe not, some might say $100 million is a lot of money, but its your money so you can do what you want. But for me, when I buy a guitar, it’s not just a wooden musical stick, it’s got history, people have spent months or years choosing materials, components, each component has been made, modified, changed, it’s all been designed put together and sold as a finished item, a finished piece. Call me an idiot, but I’d rather live with a guitar with flaws, then change it’s character. If it’s characteristics were so against my tastes, I’d rather just sell it and buy a guitar I did appreciate. BUT hey ho, like I said, there’s no right or wrong answer, but I know they’ll be plenty of people out there that love guitars as much as me but feel COMPLETLEY POLES APART DIFFERENT to my attitude to modifying, and I’d genuinely like to hear from you guys and learn a bit. Actually there IS a right answer and it's no. Any other answer implies that you have the right to tell others what they may do with their own property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Your choice of words have made this easy... Vandalism.. : willful or malicious destruction or defacement of public or private property. So... No it's not vandalism as the guitar belongs to an individual who presumably thinks he/she is making improvements. If they are doing it believing they are destroying or defacing it then you would ask "is vandalism vandalism?" Willfuly defacing brings an interesting question on relicing. Is this art and therefore exempt from the vandalism label. Hmmm. The question you clearly pertained to on whether it is right or wrong, or a good idea or not is far more subjctive. I couldn't even offer my own opinion without more specifics on the guitar and the mods. I think most people would agree that putting gold burstbuckers on a 59 burst and refinishing it in sky blue pink with a yellow border would be sacrilege but changing the tuners on an R9, well, I wouldn't, and if they needed replacing it would get klusons and I'd keep the originals but if it's your R9 and you want to hack a lump of the body then be my guest. I won't be buying it off you but it's your geet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookkeeper's Son Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 If you frequent guitar forums and publications, you'd get the impression that a decent-sized percentage of guitarists modify their gear, and within that particular population, I suppose it might be true. These are people who just seem to like tinkering with and/or personalizing their stuff, like folks who buy a car and immediately replace the wheels with something trick. However, I think more people than not keep their guitars stock, and don't find any need to change them, except for repairs. I also guess that more guitars get sold/traded than modified when the owner is dissatisfied with the tone and/or playability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'm all for modifications if they improve the guitar's sound/looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 If you've paid for it, and own it...do whatever you want, to it! (One man's treasure, is another man's trash...and all that.) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I used to take reeeeally crappy trade-in guitars from the local guitar store - this was 40 years ago when I lived elsewhere - and redo them sufficiently to make them functional and playable, then sell 'em. A bit later, I took my 1950s Harmony archtop and switched the metal and/or wood bridge with a tunamatic. Somebody already appeared to have swapped the original tuners with Grovers and I'm not sure about the trapeze tailpiece. But in retrospect, in one sense I was just doing more or less an advanced version of setup. But it actually became my go-to guitar for a couple years playing rock, country and country rock. It worked well and had a decent sound through my tube amps. So... I dunno. The past number of years I've only done what might be considered minor setup, although I have taken a rotten strat copy and filed down sides of the frets so they wouldn't cut anybody's hands. Personally I tend to think that swapping stuff out is kinda counterproductive. Building your own with a storebought neck or whatever makes better sense to me. I guess you pays yer money and takes yer choice. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I am of the group who says "If you payed for it, you can do whatever the F you want with it. It's your own guitar, so it's your own choice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 vandalism is when its not your own moddification is when you own it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 If it feels good do it... What ever makes you happy is good, within reason of course and not hurting anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 As far as I'm concerned all this relicing and "roadworn" fake wear and tear on guitars is vandalism.It is the most idiotic and useless of fads since goldfish swallowing.Relicing is absolute poseurism at its fullest extent,it's like you're trying to say "I've earned my dues-look how much I've gigged and played with this guitar." What makes it even more ridiculous and laughable is that most of them are practically identical and are turned out in cookie cutter fashion.I Have the same feeling for people who spend hundreds or even thousands on a guitar with a beautiful finish and then deface it with stickers that in many cases cause permanent damage to the finish. Over the years I've seen absolute atrocities performed on guitars such as one guy who had a case that was too small for his recently acquired 1962 Strat so he cut off the top horn and threw it away so that it could fit in his $50 chipboard case.This was over 30 years ago but even then he was called the biggest idiot in town.If a guitar isn't up to my liking I leave it in the store and keep looking until I find one that suits me,it's a waste of time and money to buy a guitar and then spend loads of money and time putting it the way you want it. I'm glad that this foolish relicing fad wasn't around in the days of Stradivarius,Amati,Guarneri etc.-imagine the slim pickins we'd be left with now.We are not really owners of our instruments but are just the current custodians that will be one of many if the guitar is treated with care and respect and spared the indignation of relicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 vandalism is when its not your own moddification is when you own it Agreed. I look modifications as way to improve the guitar tone and playability not as Vandalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 How the **** do you 'vandalize' your own guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If a guitar isn't up to my liking I leave it in the store and keep looking until I find one that suits me,it's a waste of time and money to buy a guitar and then spend loads of money and time putting it the way you want it. It might be a waste of your time but it's not a waste of mine.... Sorry but a guitar doesn't feel like it is mine if I don't modify it ( to whatever degree) that I like it and it plays, feels and looks the way I want it too. There a very few stock guitars that would meet my standards and needs. The time and money I spend on them are what makes them special to me. I also doubt there will be any shortage of guitars that are 50 years old 50 years from now that are as identical and cookie cutter as they are today... Mass Production... Concerning relicing.... Some people like pristine modern looking furniture and some like the antique look... It's a matter of choice.... I happen to like finish checking, and a few dings and scrapes here and there. Too each their own. I am not criticizing your opinion as you are entitled to it as am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammas Day Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys, definetly got me thinking. All in all, without totting them up, i'd say it was about 80% in favor of modding, and also judging by some responses, the Mona Lisa is due a date with some gloss paint sometime soon, and the chances of future generations getting an original 90's 00's 10's guitar is slim A few people getting mixed up with what I was saying - no, repairs are fine, restorations fine, clearing up scratches, dinks and holes. A few people taking the tern vandalism a little too literally, my fault. I was thinking more in terms of a "Yahoo" from Gulliver's Travels - someone who doesn't respect beauty, or subtly and everything's about the "shiny" things - Like Britain's/America's/Australia's/Azerbaijan's Got Talent. I certainly think a lot of peoples point about the guitars being mass produced and therefore devoid of character is certainly a fair point. I suppose I may be a little more colloquial than others, I don't think of the guitars compared to the REST OF THE WORLD but more just to my house, my children's inheritance. But yeah, certainly nice to get responses - cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys, definetly got me thinking. All in all, without totting them up, i'd say it was about 80% in favor of modding, and also judging by some responses, the Mona Lisa is due a date with some gloss paint sometime soon, and the chances of future generations getting an original 90's 00's 10's guitar is slim A few people getting mixed up with what I was saying - no, repairs are fine, restorations fine, clearing up scratches, dinks and holes. A few people taking the tern vandalism a little too literally, my fault. I was thinking more in terms of a "Yahoo" from Gulliver's Travels - someone who doesn't respect beauty, or subtly and everything's about the "shiny" things - Like Britain's/America's/Australia's/Azerbaijan's Got Talent. I certainly think a lot of peoples point about the guitars being mass produced and therefore devoid of character is certainly a fair point. I suppose I may be a little more colloquial than others, I don't think of the guitars compared to the REST OF THE WORLD but more just to my house, my children's inheritance. But yeah, certainly nice to get responses - cheers BFG It is a fun question and topic. Actually repairs and restorations on vintage instruments that are currently collectible and "High Dollar" guitars would be one of the biggest things that collectors would call "Vandalism" regardless of when it took place. I think most people modify parts, Bridges, pups, plastics, tuners, etc... I would say these are all "safe" mods especially if you can avoid making new holes. If people keep all the OEM parts with the guitar it could be put back. As far as your children's inheritance, if you want to make sure they get something of monetary value buy some savings bonds to go along with the guitar. The guitar will be a sentimental inheritance regardless of what you do with it. I think the more you "Make it your own" the more it will mean to them.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammas Day Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 BFG As far as your children's inheritance, if you want to make sure they get something of monetary value buy some savings bonds to go along with the guitar. The guitar will be a sentimental inheritance regardless of what you do with it. I think the more you "Make it your own" the more it will mean to them.... Andy ahhhhhhhhh you old softie. he hee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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