mcplwray Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Good day all I am looking at purchasing a 1977 Les Paul Standard. I think that it really looks right. Upon quick inspection it appears that everyhing is marked where it should be and the serial number is correct. However,what it is missing is the made in usa stamp on the back of the headstock. Having down some research it appears that from 1970 and on they were all stamped with the made in USA stamp on the back of the headstock. My question is if anyone has knowledge of this occuring with some LP's from this time in history please let me know. Without it being there it looks suspicious. However, if there are instances of this occuring it would be great to know. regardless it plays and sounds absolutely amazing. Serial number is 72507591 and it is a red wine colour. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hello! This is how a proper '77 Standard should look like: http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10832. Model name, "MADE IS USA", and serial number should be stamped on the back of the headstock. Volute! Pancake body. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcplwray Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hello! This is how a proper '77 Standard should look like: http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10832. Model name, "MADE IS USA", and serial number should be stamped on the back of the headstock. Volute! Pancake body. Cheers... Bence Thanks for your reply. That is what I thought. I would not normally be asking but everything really does look right on this. It even has the original hardshell case from when it was purchased with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have to be honest with You: I don't have much experience with vintage guitars. I think You should drop a mail to Gibson's Customer Service with some photos. I just saw another '77 LP on the internet without the model name on the back of headstock, so probably there were many variations... Regards... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If it's a 77 it may not have the pancake body It should have the Nashville bridge 3 piece maple neck And based off the serial number it was born in Nashville, and probably weighs more than 10 lbs Post some images if you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogerb Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It should have made in USA on the back of the headstock, it may be stamped very lightly and hard to read. The headstock could have also been refinished at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcplwray Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks to everyone for all of the assistance. It iis greatlyappreciated I agree that it should have the made in USA on the headstock. I will post pics up as soon as possible and see what everyone thinks. The current owner says that it has not been refinished. The serial number is in pretty good shape and the back of the headstock is very uniform and shows no evidence that someone may have taken a sander to it and removed it. It sure is heavy though compared to my old SG lol!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcplwray Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 After a long discussion the present owner has admitted that the back of the headstock has been refinished. He says the Made in USA was there originally. However, it was very faint. when the refinishing occured the made in USA mark was lost. I am unsure why he would wait to say this. Now I am thinking that if he went to great lengths to conceal the refinishing of the headstock what else is he hiding. what would be the best way to confirm that this guitar is a real Gibson without going to a dealer as there is no dealer near where I live? Are there any other real tell tale signs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This raises a question: Why would he say at first it was NOT refinished, and then say it WAS refinished AND be able to confirm that it did say "made in usa"? And, the obvious, why was it refinished? Was the whole guitar done, or just the headstock? There WERE clones made around that time, although they are rare. (I have never seen one from that era, but I have seen pics of some that are surprising how much of the "Norlin" features they have). If the guy is not being straight with you, now you have a problem of not only having to confirm for yourself it is geniune, but also what might have been done to the guitar that may have devalued it. A lot depends of corse how much he is asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 How about post some pictures of the guitar including the back of the Headstock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcplwray Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Unfortunately I have no pictures of the guitar at this time to post. However, he did remove the pickups so that I can inspect the cavity. There is a stamp clearly saying "WINE RED" inside of the cavity which is painted the same colour as the rest of the guitar and a the number "25" was also inside the cavity. the lead pickup had "PAT NO 2.737,842" and there was a date stamp which read "AUG 1977". It is possible that there was a day between as there was space between the month and year, but, it is no longer visible. I wish I had pics to post. The pots were dated as well and there was a shield inside the cavity. Is this what I should expect to see inside the cavity? He is asking about $1200.00 US fo rthe guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 if your gut is telling you its ok then go for it, those stamps on the inside 'to me' sound genuine from what I know. cant go by the pickups as these are easily changed. you say there is shielding is that copper film stuck inside the control cavity walls or is it a tin cup that covers all of the electronics and is removeable? same in the selector switch cavity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I wouldn't buy it, the seller HAS lied so you can't trust him/her. It's not like they are super rare or desireable. Find another one, let someone else risk their hard earned on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcplwray Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 if your gut is telling you its ok then go for it, those stamps on the inside 'to me' sound genuine from what I know. cant go by the pickups as these are easily changed. you say there is shielding is that copper film stuck inside the control cavity walls or is it a tin cup that covers all of the electronics and is removeable? same in the selector switch cavity it is a tin cup that covers all of the electronics and it wasthe same in the selector switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Sometimes when I think about buying, I think in terms of what is the MOST I will be losing. As in, what is the least the guitar is worth, and what is the max I MAY be overpaying. Puts things in perspective so I can concentrate on things that might really matter, such as how much I actually like the thing. While it IS possible someone has altered it to make a forgery, it seems unlikely that they would have went through the effort to have the correct serial #, correct pups and correct electronics. That would have been an expense not many would take a chance on in order to pass A '77. (JUST AN OPINION from what I can gather from here). Provided it is a Gibby, the LEAST I can imagine a "77 Paul is worth would be 800 bucks (for one that plays well). At 1200, he isn't exactly asking "collecters" price for it, so whatever issues may matter less. So really, I would be more concerned with how much I like the guitar and my 1200 bucks for it than the 400 bucks I may be possibly overpaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRIDER Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Since the seller was trying to decieve you about the refinishing, I would be concerned that it was refinished to hide a broken or cracked headstock repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 if it has the tin cups and other characteristics relating to that year I would be pretty much sold on it. However I would be a little disappointed with the guys honesty. as a matter of fact if he hasnt already sold it by now then he is going to accept a lower offer as a result of the refinish. that would be my gameplan, if he does not accept then your decision as been made for you and find another one. if he does accept then you have peice of mind that you got a good deal considering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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