Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

The Lifeson Curse?


canon_mutant

Recommended Posts

As I mentioned previously, mine will generate some noise if I let my radio packs get too close to the guitar. But if I mount them on my strap in a way that is at least 16 inches or so from the guitar it's fine.

 

I've heard of other people (not on this guitar) putting some kind of foil wrap around the wiring of their guitars in an effort to reduce hum. I've never tried it myself, but I would think that adding shielding of some kind might help with these kinds of radio interference issues. Of course, the "hot side hot" mod might fix it also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll give a full report here and try to get you whatever recon I can on that once it comes back. I'm not the best schematics guy and I'm trusting my luthier to "implement the vision" on this. But the basic idea will be to take the circuit board and battery completely out of the signal flow for the mags and follow a traditional wiring path for the mag pickups. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one and, yes, living a little dangerously.

 

Regarding your point on collector's value, only time will tell whether this mod increases or decreases the guitar's value. If all these electronics problems persist, unfortunately, this great guitar is going to become known as an unreliable instrument. Maybe it's just a select few with these problems and we're just being vocal. If so, then that's just bad luck for us. Or maybe everyone else is sitting on a problem waiting to happen, or they are just less detail oriented and don't mind the pops, volume fluctuations, pickup toggle problems, or whatever. I just saw a second guy the other day report that his pickup toggle was not bringing in both mags. These types of problems are unheard of on my other guitars (except I just started having a pickup toggle issue on a Jackson tele I've got ... but it's 25 freakin years old!). There's a guy who posted a series of YouTube videos about "restoring" his brand new AL 355 so as to fix the poor finish and move the volute back to its "correct" position (he did very nice work on it). My guess is, he increased the value of his guitar by doing that.

 

I hope to report success on this -- it may be a couple of weeks but I'll post results here.

 

Have you gone forward with this mod? I want to implement this on my AL if possible.

 

Above I reported that I was experiencing the buzzing/popping random crackles - and that it was resolved after I capped the loose blue wire and routed wires away from the piezo. Well now my buzz/popping/crackle noises have recently returned. I have gigged several times and played several practice sessions without issue, but this weekend it all started again. It also SOMETIMES crackles in a timed cycle pattern, so I know it's electronic in origin (even when isolated to a single cable into a tube amp with no effects). I really love the AL Access and want to continue using this as my main guitar, but don't know if I can trust it for my gig next weekend and I'm ready to take some action. I would really like to remove the mag pickups from the peizo (electronics/battery) and run them independently through the two separate jacks. I have no application for a blend and see no future use of blending in my playing. I will simply run separate lines for each jack. I have no issues other than the random buzz/pop/crackle and I can not reproduce it for my dealer.

 

Does a wiring scenario exist for this mod?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you gone forward with this mod? I want to implement this on my AL if possible.

 

Above I reported that I was experiencing the buzzing/popping random crackles - and that it was resolved after I capped the loose blue wire and routed wires away from the piezo. Well now my buzz/popping/crackle noises have recently returned. I have gigged several times and played several practice sessions without issue, but this weekend it all started again. It also SOMETIMES crackles in a timed cycle pattern, so I know it's electronic in origin (even when isolated to a single cable into a tube amp with no effects). I really love the AL Access and want to continue using this as my main guitar, but don't know if I can trust it for my gig next weekend and I'm ready to take some action. I would really like to remove the mag pickups from the peizo (electronics/battery) and run them independently through the two separate jacks. I have no application for a blend and see no future use of blending in my playing. I will simply run separate lines for each jack. I have no issues other than the random buzz/pop/crackle and I can not reproduce it for my dealer.

 

Does a wiring scenario exist for this mod?

 

I was supposed to pick up the modded AL this weekend, but my luthier again did not have it done. The wait is painful, but I'd like him not to rush it either. I don't know about a wiring scenario. Like I said previously, I'll give a report on it when I have it. If things work great, I'll take a look inside and see if there's any guidance or photos I can add to help. I'm not much with electronics myself, so don't expect a detailed schematic.

 

The more I hear, the more certain I am that this "hot side hot" mod (that name makes me miss the McDLT!) is an essential mod if this guitar is to be relied on for gigging. It's one thing when you're Alex and you have a whole row of guitars to go to if something tweaks -- including another AL in the other color. Maybe we're just the vocal minority having issues with ours. But I am hoping to put an end to these issues with the mod. I've got to say, after just 3 weeks without my AL, I really miss the freakin' thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was supposed to pick up the modded AL this weekend, but my luthier again did not have it done. The wait is painful, but I'd like him not to rush it either. I don't know about a wiring scenario. Like I said previously, I'll give a report on it when I have it. If things work great, I'll take a look inside and see if there's any guidance or photos I can add to help. I'm not much with electronics myself, so don't expect a detailed schematic.

 

The more I hear, the more certain I am that this "hot side hot" mod (that name makes me miss the McDLT!) is an essential mod if this guitar is to be relied on for gigging. It's one thing when you're Alex and you have a whole row of guitars to go to if something tweaks -- including another AL in the other color. Maybe we're just the vocal minority having issues with ours. But I am hoping to put an end to these issues with the mod. I've got to say, after just 3 weeks without my AL, I really miss the freakin' thing.

 

I have the ability to do this "if I can find the time" [electrical engineer and electronics technician prior]. Also, am going to contact Gibson to see if a schematic can be provided under copyright protection?

 

I still want to compare this layout to my Carvin TL60T too. All just a matter of finding time. If it's a keeper which I want it to be, I've got to mod it to make it reliable. I don't think it ever will be in its current state.

 

Like I said though, when it works, I love it. Had the same problem with the ES-355 early on and a 1/2 dozen mods later, it just works now.

 

Need to get this one the same. Can't imagine selling it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my modded AL is ready, but I will not pick it up until later today. In the category of keeping this thread on the edge of its collective seat, I spoke with my luthier and he says the mod went fine and everything is working well. The problem with my crackling noise and sound cutting out had to do with some poor grounding and connections. But the bonus is that he disconnected the push-pull aspect of the Piezo pot (the "bleed fix") so that the Piezo is always in the "on" state. I had forgotten to ask him to do that but it had occurred to me at some point that the Piezo kill would have no real purpose now that the blending was being taken out. This way, the Piezo volume pot can always remain in the down position. This is good since I was always having trouble keeping it straight what position all this stuff was in and would occasionally switch over to dead air when trying to go to the Piezo. Technically, he could have just swapped that pot out altogether for a non-push-pull pot, but that's no big deal. I'll report back after I have it in hand, but the luthier reports that everything is working well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my modded AL is ready, but I will not pick it up until later today. In the category of keeping this thread on the edge of its collective seat, I spoke with my luthier and he says the mod went fine and everything is working well. The problem with my crackling noise and sound cutting out had to do with some poor grounding and connections. But the bonus is that he disconnected the push-pull aspect of the Piezo pot (the "bleed fix") so that the Piezo is always in the "on" state. I had forgotten to ask him to do that but it had occurred to me at some point that the Piezo kill would have no real purpose now that the blending was being taken out. This way, the Piezo volume pot can always remain in the down position. This is good since I was always having trouble keeping it straight what position all this stuff was in and would occasionally switch over to dead air when trying to go to the Piezo. Technically, he could have just swapped that pot out altogether for a non-push-pull pot, but that's no big deal. I'll report back after I have it in hand, but the luthier reports that everything is working well.

 

Thanks for keeping us on edge!... :)

 

So I'm starting to wonder if my noise is an electronic interference -vs- grounding issues. I've used my AL LP all week for rehearsals then gigs both Friday and Saturday. Not one snap, crackle, or pop! However last weekend at home and another evening during the week I was having the problem but only in my basement practice studio. I have used different amps and cables, but I can't recall ever hearing the sounds (noises) anywhere outside of my basement studio....... I have rehearsed and gigged in several locations over the past few months, and never had an issue with noise that I can recall?...... Could be coincidence too.

 

As for the Peizo, I did mod it the second time I took it into the shop for the noise problem. I had them reverse the switch/knob so that the Peizo is off in the "push" down position and I pull it up to engage. I only use it for a couple of songs and have it off 95% of the time so I wanted down as "off".

 

I'm still interested in isolating the mags from the peizo and am hopeful that Gibson would support a schematic solution for those who want to have our dealer's mod it.

 

Thanks for everyone's discussion on this topic. I'll keep an eye out for the results....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked up my modded AL on Saturday, and can happily report that it freakin' rocks again! The hot side is now officially hot and the cold side is officially cold. :-) A few notes:

 

- If there has been any change in the sound of the mags, it is not for the worse. I'm not noticing any particular change, although obviously there is no way to A/B it. The mags simply sound beastly.

 

- The crackling and cut-out problems are obviously gone, and I am no longer getting changes in hum levels on the mags when I touch the trem bar and bridge like I was. The overall noise level really seems to have been reduced, though, again, I could not A/B. And I have not seen any unusual behavior with either the mags or Piezo (like volume swells).

 

- I love that I can now have the Piezo volume pot down even when using the Piezo -- I still don't know why Gibson defaulted to the reverse.

 

- I had my luthier do a setup because he does a nice job with those -- he lowered the action a bit and it plays wonderfully.

 

- As for the mod, he disconnected the mags from the circuit board and battery. This means the mags will not lose tone even if the battery is removed, and the battery will not drain at all unless the Piezo plug is in. He had to change out the "regular" jack to a standard mono jack since the switching recognition for blending was no longer necessary. He reports that the problems I had were due to bad connections and grounding. As to grounding, Gibson used foil strips for grounding but also used adhesive for the strips that creates a barrier to effective grounding. I am not sure what his solution was to that, but he seemed confident that the grounding problems were solved.

 

I did not have time this weekend to open the back and take pictures, but I will when I get a few moments. You might understand that, walking on guitar cloud 9, I wasn't really pumped over turning screws and messing with anything. But I appreciate the collective good it can do for modern science, and will open it up and share some images soon for those planning to do this to their beloved ALs.

 

Bottom line, this is akin to the separation of Siamese twins at birth. Gibson may have wanted the blending feature because it seems "hi-tech" and some other manufacturers (Carvin, e.g.) have implemented it, but there is little benefit in it and it is rife with problems. There may be AL owners out there who will never experience problems with any of this, and I wish everyone well. But I'm breathing easier now. In the end, the labor and part (jack) on this mod was roughly $70. So this should not stop someone from buying this guitar if it suits them in every other way. You will need a luthier you can trust, though. Doing this cost me a warranty, I suspect. But my view on guitar warranties is you shouldn't need them, and if you do, you're already screwed!

 

Back with pictures when I get the chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked up my modded AL on Saturday, and can happily report that it freakin' rocks again! The hot side is now officially hot and the cold side is officially cold. :-) A few notes:

 

- If there has been any change in the sound of the mags, it is not for the worse. I'm not noticing any particular change, although obviously there is no way to A/B it. The mags simply sound beastly.

 

 

Awesome. Now all you need to do is modify the truss rod cover to put the starman logo on it! (I've actually looked into this, lol.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey some dude is playing "my" wine red Lifeson Axcess on Paladia right now! [thumbup]

 

He's not having popping issues, picking up radio stations, or DVR interference [confused] .

 

Rock on Alex . . .

 

Geddy is having more and more trouble with the vocals all the time. Years of screaming has taken its toll . . .

 

Still good though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been giggng with my Axcess quite a bit in the last couple of weeks and I definitely hear a pop and crackle now and then it its when I touch the mag volume pot. I can sometimes get it when I turn the knob. Funny enough I was using my Shure wireless unit and there was way more noise using the AL Axcess than there was my Epiphone les paul so I used a cable instead. I think I'm ready to do the hot side hot, cold side cold mod. It must be a Graphtech issue because my Ernie Ball Petrucci runs quiet and it has the piezo with blend also.

 

BTW regarding the whole 355 volute, I found this pic online and you can see Lifesons 355 which has the "Alex Lifeson" truss rod cover, doesn't have the volute problem we do.

 

http://www.thecanadianmusicscene.com/rush_roadcrewinterviews_scottappleton.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been giggng with my Axcess quite a bit in the last couple of weeks and I definitely hear a pop and crackle now and then it its when I touch the mag volume pot. I can sometimes get it when I turn the knob. Funny enough I was using my Shure wireless unit and there was way more noise using the AL Axcess than there was my Epiphone les paul so I used a cable instead. I think I'm ready to do the hot side hot, cold side cold mod. It must be a Graphtech issue because my Ernie Ball Petrucci runs quiet and it has the piezo with blend also.

 

BTW regarding the whole 355 volute, I found this pic online and you can see Lifesons 355 which has the "Alex Lifeson" truss rod cover, doesn't have the volute problem we do.

 

http://www.thecanadianmusicscene.com/rush_roadcrewinterviews_scottappleton.html

 

I am more and more pleased with the hot side hot mod as I get more time to play my AL. Not only is it clearly quieter and the sound defect issues I had are gone, but I would swear the mags sound better now. I was "warned" by my tech that there may be a subtle shift in tone to a more traditional Les Paul sound once the circuit board was taken out of the mags chain. I cannot A/B, obviously, but it really seems the guitar has more of a "Page-like" sound to it than it did before. It is not dramatic, and I may even just be imagining it, but I am thrilled with the tone I'm getting. It also seems like the switches in pickup configurations result in sound changes that are more in line with what you would expect to hear. And one "bonus," now, when I plug just one cable into the Piezo jack, it works! Before you would get no signal. I realize that is because you can plug one cable into the regular jack and get everything on an unmodded AL, so you wouldn't need to switch jacks (and could blend). If it worked just as billed and didn't add noise and bleed issues (though you could kill that), that would be great. But I was pleased to discover that I can just switch the cable over in a casual setting if I need a Piezo fix and am not running a second cable. Last benefits are that the battery can be pulled out and have no effect on mags, and the battery does not drain unless a cable is plugged in for the Piezo.

 

Btw, on your radio noise issue, Solitary Pine has reported that he would get significant noise if his radio packs were too close to the guitar electronics. He helped that by moving them a bit away. For now you may want to try that. But with all the reports here of DVR interference, pops, cracks, etc., I think the mod is essential. I have had NO strange behavior since doing it and I trust my AL again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very cool.. glad it worked out for you. Next week I'll get my electronics buddy over to do surgery on the guitar. Rather excited actually. I'm thinking I have some contact cleaner around the house somewhere and I might put a couple of drops onto the pot to see if that temporary solves the issue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I expected, Gibson replied finally and said no to a request for a schematic. So, I will have to reverse engineer the thing to see what they've done and frankly just haven't had the time to even pop the covers. Maybe this weekend??

 

Gibson did offer an RMA but I don't trust they're going to fix it unless they are willing to invest literally hours doing so which you know they won't. They'll pull it out of the case, play it, will probably play fine, and ship it back no fault found like my local Authorized Service Center did.

 

I personally would prefer to try to fix the problem than to just do the siamese separation surgery and also want to compare this Lifeson circuitry with my similar Carvin to perhaps keep the blend feature that way. I actually have found a few songs where adding in a little piezo to the HB results in a particularly nice tone I like - do the same playing my Carvin but it is wired with a center tap pot where center is 50/50 and either direction goes all in or all out on the piezos.

 

But, if I can look it over and find some obvious grounding and shielding shortfalls, a fix to the Lifeson as is would be preferable as I stated earlier, any mods will actually devalue the guitar even though you're improving the function - like my ole' 442.

 

Weird, I played it the other night and never had a single pop or noise or volume dip problem. No way I'd trust playing it publicly in its current state though suddenly picking up AM1330 during a song live on stage might make for a unique effect? [blush]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been giggng with my Axcess quite a bit in the last couple of weeks and I definitely hear a pop and crackle now and then it its when I touch the mag volume pot. I can sometimes get it when I turn the knob. Funny enough I was using my Shure wireless unit and there was way more noise using the AL Axcess than there was my Epiphone les paul so I used a cable instead. I think I'm ready to do the hot side hot, cold side cold mod. It must be a Graphtech issue because my Ernie Ball Petrucci runs quiet and it has the piezo with blend also.

 

BTW regarding the whole 355 volute, I found this pic online and you can see Lifesons 355 which has the "Alex Lifeson" truss rod cover, doesn't have the volute problem we do.

 

http://www.thecanadianmusicscene.com/rush_roadcrewinterviews_scottappleton.html

 

I guess it was not good enough for Alex after all. I heard there was a mod done to the "volute" area,

but I did not dare say anything. After all , that post , "if it is good enough for Al it's good enough for me" echo's in my head.

Along with Gibson's claim that the artist aproved of it, now makes me wonder just how much he liked it, I guess so much he had it removed.

 

With the problems I had before,the problems others are having with this new "AL",

and along with my promise to never buy another Gibson it sure has served me well. I have more

playable instruments that I don't have to feel like I need to make up excuses to play them. I never had anyone grab the Al-355 and

say this "volute" is really cool. They usually rub their finger on it and see me blush, well back before it became a closet classic.

As in it stays in the closet and gets played an hour every few months. It sure looks nice, but it's not a players guitar.

Hope you all have great guitars in the end, with a one year warranty on electronics, some are probably in the same boat as the Al-355 by now.

I really wish there was a "time machine" that would bring gibson back to the company it once was. My older Gibsons are great, if it was not for

the Al-355 I would have probably tossed some more money the gibby way.

/cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am more and more pleased with the hot side hot mod as I get more time to play my AL. Not only is it clearly quieter and the sound defect issues I had are gone, but I would swear the mags sound better now. I was "warned" by my tech that there may be a subtle shift in tone to a more traditional Les Paul sound once the circuit board was taken out of the mags chain. I cannot A/B, obviously, but it really seems the guitar has more of a "Page-like" sound to it than it did before. It is not dramatic, and I may even just be imagining it, but I am thrilled with the tone I'm getting. It also seems like the switches in pickup configurations result in sound changes that are more in line with what you would expect to hear. And one "bonus," now, when I plug just one cable into the Piezo jack, it works! Before you would get no signal. I realize that is because you can plug one cable into the regular jack and get everything on an unmodded AL, so you wouldn't need to switch jacks (and could blend). If it worked just as billed and didn't add noise and bleed issues (though you could kill that), that would be great. But I was pleased to discover that I can just switch the cable over in a casual setting if I need a Piezo fix and am not running a second cable. Last benefits are that the battery can be pulled out and have no effect on mags, and the battery does not drain unless a cable is plugged in for the Piezo.

 

Btw, on your radio noise issue, Solitary Pine has reported that he would get significant noise if his radio packs were too close to the guitar electronics. He helped that by moving them a bit away. For now you may want to try that. But with all the reports here of DVR interference, pops, cracks, etc., I think the mod is essential. I have had NO strange behavior since doing it and I trust my AL again.

 

I was wondering something. Did your AL have the push/pull pot installed for the piezo before this mod? If so that is why you'd notice a huge difference. I'm doing my mod tonight with hsh and csc (cold side cold) and I have the push/pull mod already in there but I want to split it as it's still noisy. One the mod is done I'll test it out but I'm also going to put on 11's since my guitar is in Eb tuning and 10s are too slinky

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was wondering something. Did your AL have the push/pull pot installed for the piezo before this mod? If so that is why you'd notice a huge difference. I'm doing my mod tonight with hsh and csc (cold side cold) and I have the push/pull mod already in there but I want to split it as it's still noisy. One the mod is done I'll test it out but I'm also going to put on 11's since my guitar is in Eb tuning and 10s are too slinky

 

Congrats on getting your mod done, I hope it works out for you as it has for me. As to the push/pull pot, yes, I received my AL with the Piezo kill pot already installed (mine is past the point that Gibson starting installing that). But the kill feature has no real purpose if the mod is in place, so my luthier disconnected that aspect of the pot. The push/pull pot is still there, but it now operates as a straight volume control. Pushing or pulling the pot makes no change (so I just leave it down all the time). He could have just replaced it with a non-push-pull pot, but that wouldn't matter to me. I suppose I can find some alternate use for the push/pull aspect of the pot, but I would rather just keep this guitar simple.

 

I'd be interested in your view of whether you think your tone changed at all after the mod. It seems to me that mine did (for the better in my view), but I'm open to the idea it is my imagination too. Maybe just the reduction in noise makes it seem different/better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Since my Carvin TL60T with a Piezo Wilkinson works so well, I'm starting to map out my conversion schematic to the following minus the three extra switches since I can push/pull the SC/HB function that's done with switches on my Carvin plus - not drilling holes in my Lifeson. I have found too many songs that I like blending in some piezo to the tone that I don't want to completely either - or it. If I can't figure out how to split both HBs with this layout [though I've got some ideas] I will either punt splitting the bridge HB or punt the piezo tone control but I really love it on my TL60T. It's very usable having tone control of the piezos and the HBs.

 

140028866.jpg

 

Will paste my schematic in when I finish it.

 

BTW, Despite the number of issues we've all had, Gibson wouldn't guarantee me a fix if I RMA it though they "were confident they could find the problem". I'm not and since I have the dual AL230 thing with my two Lifesons, I can't risk it getting lost, damaged, or destroyed in shipment. I think the problem is inherent to the design and I would bet Alex has already has his modified more than once from what we have. There's just no way I or Alex for that matter could reliably play mine on stage the way it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

My McDLT mod is complete and I couldn't be happier with it! $70 including strings and a setup. The tech said it was easy. The "Regular" jack works like a LP standard. The mags don't go through the peizo board. The Peizo signal is only through the Life-O-Sound" jack.

 

I highly recomend this setup for AL LP owners.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...