daveinspain Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hmmmm... maybe some of those chambered Les Pauls have something in the chambers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Luckily, nobody mentioned Bozeman. Shhhhhh. #036; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu fhtagn Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Well if Gibson is getting rid of trees as quickly as they're getting rid of posts in this thread, the environment is in trouble! :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Wait 'til Obama sends in Fish and Wildlife SWAT teams to "annex" Canadia. We'll have no choice but to send jobs to India. I hate to admit it but given the state of Canada's military since WW2; that would probably be all the US would need to take out the whole country - a swat team. lol They say Canada's military is among the best trained; but also the most ill equipped. Most military strikes that Canada has been involved in through the UN, the opposing military is more worried that our aging helicopters will crash on them than anything else. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 If the accusations against Gibson are legit, why have they not brought anyone in the company up on charges or made any arrests. 2 years have passed since the original raid and this most recent one is related to the same case, not a separate incident? Sounds like a case of someone abusing their position of power to me. The theory that the Indian government is pushing to have their workforce do more of the manufacturing of the fretboard blanks makes sense. But this doesn't help either them or the US. Gibson might simply find another source for wood to use for the fretboard blanks causing India to lose revenue and best case scenario for the US is if Gibson gives in, they are taking jobs away from their own people. Worst case scenario, Gibson decides Made In USA is more hassle than it's worth and moves manufacturing to another country...costing even more jobs for US tax payers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 .... The theory that the Indian government is pushing to have their workforce do more of the manufacturing of the fretboard blanks makes sense. .... Worst case scenario, Gibson decides Made In USA is more hassle than it's worth and moves manufacturing to another country...costing even more jobs for US tax payers. +10000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn straight. Like India hasn't already taken enough US jobs. Seems like the feds won't be happy until all US jobs have gone offshore. What dummies. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 +10000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn straight. Like India hasn't already taken enough US jobs. Seems like the feds won't be happy until all US jobs have gone offshore. What dummies. <_< To add to this - Gibson probably has a serious problem with leaving the manufacturing of any part of the woodworking process up to a 3rd party company. Sure they would probably be able to put some sort of strict quality control measures in place at the overseas factory producing the fretboard blanks; but it wouldn't be the same as manufacturing them in house and you'd have to wonder if the number of fretboards getting rejected would be comparable to the numbers already rejected at Gibson's current facilities. If it came down to outsourcing the manufacture of the fretboards to another factory, I would hope Gibson is going to have the option of inspecting each piece before paying for it rather than being forced to wait until the finished product arrives in the US and then being forced to take the loss on the rejected pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 my guitar is so hardcore its made out of illegal wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Im with ya brother. The EPA, Fish & wildlife should be de-funded. They are dangerous and are shutting business down or forcing them out of the country. This Obama Admin has got to go!!!!!!!!!! So all you that cheer on giving away other peoples rights ie: gun control, as I have said to people for 25yrs., "someday they're going to take away something you like and theres not gonna be anyone there to listen." The USFWS and EPA aren't the product of any recent legislation or administration, the USFWS was created by Congress in 1871, and the EPA was proposed by Nixon ( R ) and began operation in the early 70's. Without some of the protections afforded to us by the USFWS and EPA pollution, contamination, and over-harvesting of animals would reach proportions well above what we see nowadays. Animals on the verge of extinction as well as vast tracts of natural habitat are protected by these services. I'm a gun owning citizen who enjoys hunting and fishing, and I recognize a lot of the services these departments afford me. Leave the politics out as it will be removed by the admins. USFWS as well as other conservation departments, for the most part, do a lot of good for the interests of the populace of the U.S. You may or may not enjoy the benefits of all the work they have done, but many do. That being said I think they have went overboard with raiding the Gibson plants in both cases and that their time would be better spent elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 my guitar is so hardcore its made out of illegal wood Watch out America. The Feds figure that if they can't confiscate our guns, they'll confiscate our guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Watch out America. The Feds figure that if they can't confiscate our guns, they'll confiscate our guitars. I wonder if my Zebrawood LP is suspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Today's occurrences seem to be a follow up of the same investigation, not a whole new issue. The Feds did not do press any charges the first time around, if they didn't it is because there was no evidence found. It looks like you are taking a side too. Something smells fishy, Martin, Taylor, PRS, etc are not being raided or investigated with the same intensity. Gibson quit using Brazilian rosewood a long time ago, yet other people seem to have an endless supply of "old stock". Hell if things get bad enough with wood supplies in the USA guitars will be made in the 3rd World where you can buy anybody and break the few(er) rules that exist anyway. I dont quite understand the deal with martin, on one hand ive read they stopped using brazilian rosewood in the late 60s but then got one more shipment of wood in the 80s yet today they have 2 gits for sale both with like a 50-100k pricetag which begs the question, when did they get the wood? The d16-rgt i own has East Indian Rosewood and it is BY FAR the best acoustic i have ever played. I was kind of disappointed that Gibson doesnt really have acoustics in the 1300 dollar range, its either epiphone masterbuilt or a 3000 dollar hummingbird. Sorry for the Tangent but i hope my martin wasnt made with endangered wood as much as i enjoy playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Watch out America. The Feds figure that if they can't confiscate our guns, they'll confiscate our guitars. The only thing more dangerous than a guitar player is someone who plays Dungeons and Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Why did Customs approved the importation of the wood in question? Who enforces what? So the feds can confiscate my guitars if Gibson is at fault knowingly or not. I want the feds to know that I only use Fender maple fret boards. So I'm OK for now; however five years from now it could also be illegal unless a Canadian finishes it. This is a lot of expense to prove no wrong doing by Gibson. Cost will be passed on to us,consumers, who also pay tax to support the raid. Is this like a drug bust where the Feds auction the contraband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Why did Customs approved the importation of the wood in question? Who enforces what? So the feds can confiscate my guitars if Gibson is at fault knowingly or not. I want the feds to know that I only use Fender maple fret boards. So I'm OK for now; however five years from now it could also be illegal unless a Canadian finishes it. This is a lot of expense to prove no wrong doing by Gibson. Cost will be passed on to us,consumers, who also pay tax to support the raid. Is this like a drug bust where the Feds auction the contraband? I suppose once they've proven in court that they did things in compliance with US and foreign laws, Gibson could always turn around and sue for damages. The only problem for US citizens is that while a successful lawsuit against the government to recover lost profits resulting from this incident would keep the costs down for Gibson's customers; it will be at the expense of US tax dollars. Not only will the US Gibson customer still pay the costs through their taxes, but so will other tax payers who are not guitarists and never have and probably never will own a Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 If Gibson had illegal wood, they must pay the piper. If Gibson is to be the best of the best in mass-produced guitars, they need to be a responsible corporation and their reputation should be beyond reproach. 'Made in the USA' means something, ferchristsakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Here's an article that appeared in today's Times of India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Watch out America. The Feds figure that if they can't confiscate our guns, they'll confiscate our guitars. then its our pedals and amps next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I hate to say this about confiscations, but you young guys will see more than you might imagine today. Are the parts in your pedal "legal?" Are you playing too loudly in a given venue? Is your music politically correct? That latter may not trip any doors for younger readers here, but just try finding a lotta music from WWII that's been pretty much hidden away in archives for just that reason. Here's one that isn't politically correct. Drop the three asterisks on both sides to get access on youtube until they decide it's gotta go. ***http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azYiKQK-rqU*** m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Add to that...Can you even play, any music (cover's anyway), without violating some law, or copywrite, even in the privacy, of your own home??? NOT, if ASCAP/BMI have their way. Never mind, the fact, that playing covers, sometimes for years/decades, keep those old songs alive, and out there, in the public eye (and helps generate sales), even if they are "Greatest Hits," CD's, etc. Artists, DO need to be paid, royalties, on music that's recorded, by other artists. But once it's in the public domain, what's the harm, in the local "talent," garage band, or coffee-house singer, performing their favoite tunes, "classic" or otherwise, in the local bars, clubs, etc. There never used to be a problem, doing that. Now, a lot of clubs won't hire bands, much less cover bands, and they have to pay a "fee" even to install a juke-box, anymore. WTF is going on??!(Rhetorical question) How much "regulation," do we need? And, besides unbridled "Greed," is it "regulation," really... or, supression/fascism? What's next...."You're using illegal brass, in your trumpet, sax, or trombone?!" CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You'll be prosecuted for breathing foreign air. It's their air not yours. All of the media should back Gibson on this. How many of those 'agents' that raided Gibson wear clothes that were made by children in foreign countries? All of them I should imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguerra Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 If Gibson had illegal wood, they must pay the piper. If Gibson is to be the best of the best in mass-produced guitars, they need to be a responsible corporation and their reputation should be beyond reproach. 'Made in the USA' means something, ferchristsakes. They are a responsible company. They support buying wood only from certified sources. Our government says they are breaking an Indian law regarding shipping "non manufactured woods." India wants to protect their home industries. However they allowed the export of these woods because they are "manufactured." My guess is being sawed and planed into blanks are sufficient manufacturing steps. Please read the articles before parroting the "illegal wood" talking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 They are a responsible company. They support buying wood only from certified sources. Our government says they are breaking an Indian law regarding shipping "non manufactured woods." India wants to protect their home industries. However they allowed the export of these woods because they are "manufactured." My guess is being sawed and planed into blanks are sufficient manufacturing steps. Please read the articles before parroting the "illegal wood" talking point. E x a c t l y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 E x a c t l y What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RandyMan Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Sounds like a lot of bizarre hoohah to me. I can't help but wonder how much of my tax dollars went into an investigation that led to making a public example out of an musical instrument manufacturer for an issue that is so widespread and politically controlled. Seems to me that there's so much hair-splitting and wrangling over some legal issues that we all lose sight of some of the more important issues of this day and age. Like children starving to death or the way we're coming up with better ways to kill each other on a daily basis. I'm all for trying to preserve the planet that we call home, but it just seems like everyone's priorities are getting just a little more skewed every day. I'm not intentionally trying to sound stupid, but am I that naive, or am I just missing something??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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