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rkearns10

PAF Tone with SG Standard

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Hey Everyone!

 

This is my first post as a member and low and behold, its dealing with the belabored PAF topic. However, seeing as I do need some rational and realistic insight, I hope that you guys can help me out.

 

Having said that, my goal as a guitar player at this point is in my quest for tone. I currently have a Gibson SG Standard that I bought about a year ago, playing through a 50 Watt Marshall JCM 2000 DSL and an older Ampeg V412 cabinet (4X12).

 

As of right now, my tone is a bit too neo-overdrive heavy for me, and I'd like to achieve a tone similar to that of the Classic PAF sound for Rock and Blues. To be more specific, my favorite tone aspirations parallel that of Mick Taylor and the Eric Clapton Beano/Cream phases.

 

For Pickups, my guitar currently has the 490/498T combo. So my question to everyone is, starting from the ground up, how can I go about obtaining a sweeter tone like those mentioned above? I've done my research on the nature of PAF's and that they all produce different tones and all that, and there is not ONE way to get that special tone... but I basically want to get into the ballpark as much as I can possible. I know these guys played LP's but I love my SG and the balls it has. I was thinking about starting with a pair of Wolfetone Dr. Vintage pickups. I have only heard a TON of great stuff about those pickups and they seem relatively affordable compared to Throbaks. From there, what's the take on switching caps and pots? Is this really something that can help? And if so, how can I go about switching them and to what products? Also, is this kind of tone achievable through the amp I already have? Or would it be worth considering purchasing something along the lines of something from Metro or Orange Amps? Perhaps a Bluesbreaker?

 

I play guitar for hours a day and really keep my technique strong... and I'm also currently learning how to play slide, so I know that tone's just half the battle. I just feel that for my current skills, I'm stuck with a lack luster tone. So long story short.... I need some help guys.

 

Also.. I love this kids tone.... It's a great place to start when thinking of my direction

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/martys13#p/u/35/gg4Qh5gzpEs

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Guest BentonC

As far as Gibson pickups go- the Burstbucker 1, 2, and 3 and the 57 Classics are the closest we offer.

 

The '57 Classics will have a "smoother" (darker) tone than the Burstbuckers. the main difference between the Classics and BBs is that the 57 Classic models are evenly wound, while the BB models are "scatterwound" (uneven winds lead to a more "sparkly" tone)

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i run the jcm2000 dsl50 head into a 2x12 marshall 1936 cab and im pretty sure you can get fairly classic tones on the classic gain channel with the crunch switch in and then play around with the presense and eq...

 

i also have an SG standard and the 498t can be a bit too 'modern' at times so it does create an almost artifical overdrive in the ultra gain channel if you pull the gain too high...

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As far as Gibson pickups go- the Burstbucker 1, 2, and 3 and the 57 Classics are the closest we offer.

 

The '57 Classics will have a "smoother" (darker) tone than the Burstbuckers. the main difference between the Classics and BBs is that the 57 Classic models are evenly wound, while the BB models are "scatterwound" (uneven winds lead to a more "sparkly" tone)

 

This.

 

Inserting my opinion - I do not like the 49x series pickups. Too modern rock sounding. On my SG I upgraded to a 57+ in the bridge and a P-94 in the neck. Now I find both the bridge and neck positions to be usable.

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The 490R and 490T are still PAFs, as far as I know..........the 498T just being hotter so you have to turn down the gain to compensate.

 

Have you thought about trying your guitar in other amps? To me, Marshall = rock tone.

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I currently have a Gibson SG Standard that I bought about a year ago, playing through a 50 Watt Marshall JCM 2000 DSL and an older Ampeg V412 cabinet (4X12).

 

As of right now, my tone is a bit too neo-overdrive heavy for me, and I'd like to achieve a tone similar to that of the Classic PAF sound for Rock and Blues. To be more specific, my favorite tone aspirations parallel that of Mick Taylor and the Eric Clapton Beano/Cream phases.

 

For Pickups, my guitar currently has the 490/498T combo. So my question to everyone is, starting from the ground up, how can I go about obtaining a sweeter tone like those mentioned above? I've done my research on the nature of PAF's and that they all produce different tones and all that, and there is not ONE way to get that special tone... but I basically want to get into the ballpark as much as I can possible. I know these guys played LP's but I love my SG and the balls it has. I was thinking about starting with a pair of Wolfetone Dr. Vintage pickups. I have only heard a TON of great stuff about those pickups and they seem relatively affordable compared to Throbaks. From there, what's the take on switching caps and pots? Is this really something that can help? And if so, how can I go about switching them and to what products? Also, is this kind of tone achievable through the amp I already have? Or would it be worth considering purchasing something along the lines of something from Metro or Orange Amps? Perhaps a Bluesbreaker?

 

 

The 490R and 490T are still PAFs, as far as I know..........the 498T just being hotter so you have to turn down the gain to compensate.

 

Have you thought about trying your guitar in other amps? To me, Marshall = rock tone.

 

Clapton in Cream was using 100 watt Marshall heads, in the Yardbirds it was Vox ac30's, and while in John Mayall's Blues Breakers he was using a JTM 45. Mick as well as the rest of the Stones had a contract deal to use Ampeg, V4's or SVT's depending on who you ask but they also used what sounds like Fender Twins occasionally in the studio. I have absolutely zilch for experience with the JCM 2000 DSL so I can't comment on whether you can really nail the tones with that head. A Metro JTM 45 would do a great job (they really are wonderful builds, wouldn't mind owning one myself), a little costly and unfortunately he stopped doing the build kits so you're forced to buy one already assembled.

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Clapton in Cream was using 100 watt Marshall heads, in the Yardbirds it was Vox ac30's, and while in John Mayall's Blues Breakers he was using a JTM 45. Mick as well as the rest of the Stones had a contract deal to use Ampeg, V4's or SVT's depending on who you ask but they also used what sounds like Fender Twins occasionally in the studio. I have absolutely zilch for experience with the JCM 2000 DSL so I can't comment on whether you can really nail the tones with that head. A Metro JTM 45 would do a great job (they really are wonderful builds, wouldn't mind owning one myself), a little costly and unfortunately he stopped doing the build kits so you're forced to buy one already assembled.

 

Good detail on all the gear there.

 

Maybe to emulate Cream the neck pickup with the tone rolled off is required for that bluesy 'woman tone'. I certainly find the 490T in my SG faded very articulate and bluesy, whether rolled off for tone or not.

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The 490R and 490T are still PAFs, as far as I know..........the 498T just being hotter so you have to turn down the gain to compensate.

 

Have you thought about trying your guitar in other amps? To me, Marshall = rock tone.

 

You could give me a 49x equipped SG through a handwired Vox AC30 or Marshall Blues Breaker and I still would not like it. If I want more heat or gain I've got dirt and fuzz boxes. Give me 57s for a very sweet tone base and I'll build a sonic Mecca on it.

 

For the record I play a Silvertone 1484.

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As far as Gibson pickups go- the Burstbucker 1, 2, and 3 and the 57 Classics are the closest we offer.

 

The '57 Classics will have a "smoother" (darker) tone than the Burstbuckers. the main difference between the Classics and BBs is that the 57 Classic models are evenly wound, while the BB models are "scatterwound" (uneven winds lead to a more "sparkly" tone)

 

Taking the hotter 498T out of the equation, I'm interested to know what the official Gibson take is on 490R/490T vs a pair of '57 Classics.

 

From what I can make out from my reading the 490s are a PAF with a modern take. My assumption is that the 'modern take' referred to is that they have 4 conductor wires for more wiring options (although that doesn't come on OEMs.) Otherwise they still have even windings like '57s (and unlike 'buckers); alnico II magnets; and wax potting just like the '57s. Tonally 490s are said to be strong on mids and have an upper range 'bite' but I don't know how that differs from the tone of '57s. They both run at about the same impedence, right?

 

So, how would you describe the tone of '57s vs. the tone of 490s?

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You could give me a 49x equipped SG through a handwired Vox AC30 or Marshall Blues Breaker and I still would not like it. If I want more heat or gain I've got dirt and fuzz boxes. Give me 57s for a very sweet tone base and I'll build a sonic Mecca on it.

 

For the record I play a Silvertone 1484.

 

Way to bring the Sonic Mecca. The thing is, I clicked on the link to your myspace page - and what I heard sounded like a Fender Mustang played through a Peavey Backstage 30. Jesus......

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Way to bring the Sonic Mecca. The thing is, I clicked on the link to your myspace page - and what I heard sounded like a Fender Mustang played through a Peavey Backstage 30. Jesus......

 

Sorry, my music is not for squares.

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As far as Gibson pickups go- the Burstbucker 1, 2, and 3 and the 57 Classics are the closest we offer.

 

The '57 Classics will have a "smoother" (darker) tone than the Burstbuckers. the main difference between the Classics and BBs is that the 57 Classic models are evenly wound, while the BB models are "scatterwound" (uneven winds lead to a more "sparkly" tone)

 

 

Taking the hotter 498T out of the equation, I'm interested to know what the official Gibson take is on 490R/490T vs a pair of '57 Classics.

 

From what I can make out from my reading the 490s are a PAF with a modern take. My assumption is that the 'modern take' referred to is that they have 4 conductor wires for more wiring options (although that doesn't come on OEMs.) Otherwise they still have even windings like '57s (and unlike 'buckers); alnico II magnets; and wax potting just like the '57s. Tonally 490s are said to be strong on mids and have an upper range 'bite' but I don't know how that differs from the tone of '57s. They both run at about the same impedence, right?

 

So, how would you describe the tone of '57s vs. the tone of 490s?

 

 

Bump

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The '57 Classics will have a "smoother" (darker) tone than the Burstbuckers. the main difference between the Classics and BBs is that the 57 Classic models are evenly wound, while the BB models are "scatterwound" (uneven winds lead to a more "sparkly" tone)

 

nice description. I just switched out a BB 1 & 3 combo for 57 classics in m SG. That's just what I heard. I really recommend the 57's for an SG. It changed it from sounding good but weak compared to my other Gibsons to just plain great!

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I would go with a ''57 Classic at the neck and a '57 Classic Plus at the bridge. If you want a little added sustain,swap the existing stopbar tailpiece for the Gibson TP-6 fine tuning tailpiece.

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Bump

 

The 49xs in my Explorer are actually pretty nice, for 490's. Not as "harsh" or "brittle" as the usual 490 to me. My les paul had 57 classics put in it the day I got it home, so it's only had them, only ever will have them. I used PAFs when I was a kid and the 57s are as close as I've ever gotten using bunches of Seymours, couple pairs of Lindys.

 

I use a reasonable amount of gain and get as loud as circumstances allow, so volume is and has always been a pretty big part of what I call "tone". 490's get real skritchy when you get the volume up, the 57s hold together nicely, stay "warm", very pleasant and musical sounding. Of course, they break just like they should!

 

I'll prolly put some burstbuckers in my Explorer one of these days. My SG came with 57s in it and I'll never mess with them, perfect as they are.

 

rct

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I've got a std with BB3 (neck) and BB1 (bridge). They don't seem overly bright to me. I really like them. Also, the coil split option is really nice and IMO, adds a lot more versitility to the guitar. Worth a listen. Good luck with whatever you purchase.

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I recently was in the exact same situation as you and I went for a the Lollar Imperials, I chose the Low Wind version on the neck position after advice from Lollar himself.

A problem here probably is that my take on the SG is the Beatles Revolver period. That would be the same guitar more as less as the one Clapton played in the same period but quite a different sound.

The Lollars have an output between modern single coils and the humbuckers that are the standard in the SG Standard and have way more air and jangle but still lots of "in your face" than the Gibsons. It makes the SG a far more versatile guitar but that may not be interesting for you at all if your're after one particular sound.

What you will probably realize if you dive further into this is that there is no real definition of "the PAF sound". The original ones vary a lot in output and tone and one mans PAF sound may not be the next ones.

I have many guitars and have always had a problem in getting the SG to sound just right. I have a 66 Super Reverb, 62 AC30 plus a few more recent amps and it sounds very different in every amp which is also a bit unusual compared to most other guitars.

The SG is a strange beast and only one sound is easily dialed in. That would be the one that screams AC/DC :-)

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My LP has a 57 PAF in the neck and a Dimarzio SD1 in the bridge. I always liked the tone until I started using more effects playing live and they started sounding muddy to me. Went back and forth with my Strat for awhile until I got my SG Standard. The stock pickups are perfect for classic rock with my Fender Deluxe Hot Rod.

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