The RandyMan Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I signed. "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Not sure how you took my post as anti-government or anti-whatever ... but whatever floats your beanie I guess LOL!! ..... I responded to your comment about Henry seeking help. My concern is with where he has sought help - specifically the highly biased nutcase wing of the conservative media. I did not take your post as anti-government, but I did enjoy using your "loyalty volume knob" idea (come to think of it, that actually did float my beanie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shnate McDuanus Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Signed it because I'm a pro-business, anti-government, anti-regulation Tea Party sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Cam, I didn't say marketing. Henry didn't create the petition for moral support. He created it to generate awareness of gibson's plight and its position on this issue/situation. Henry has been pretty active in the media on this issue. I think this is an extension of that campaign. Read my previous post. I haven't taken a position on this issue yet. Don't put words in my mouth. ok fair enough but you got admnit this must have been hard for them and well they would want to respond i dont live in the states so dont see the media you guys see but i certainly would want to respond..i mean if he sat there doing nothing it would seem a bit strange.. i cant comment on the type of media you have in your country i just dont know enough about it or actually really care haha but i think given the circumstances this company has been put in it would seem reasonable that they would take what ever steps necessary to protect their interests.. they have had fourth and sixth amendment violations during these raids ..i know this as i took the trouble to try to understand better what happened...if you look at your previous post i supplied you with a link to a 3rd party interview from a guitar expert on what happened it gives you a very good unbiased assessment on what happened and the ramifications for all of us guitarists..as you dont want to take a position on it i wont say to check the link out but if you are interested to know what actually happened you will find it does help to understand better and you may be in a position to make informed comments over this saga..but thats your choice finally i want to make it clear to me this is not a business or brand issue it is about guitars..i love guitar and i want to see them preserved through this political legal BS!!! i also feel that these types of situations set precedents that sit badly with our civil and legal rights..if this continues it has bad implications for where our society is headed..but then i do give a #@@# and i did make an effort to find out what actually happened and if signing a petition helps them i will do it regardless of their perceived motivations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'd like to take one second to point something out to the karma cops here. If it turns out Gibson is guilty and your Gibson guitar has a post 2009 date stamped into the back of the head stock and a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard you are as guilty as Gibson of buying illegal wood. No no... don't start trying to say that Gibson or Guitar Center didn't tell you the wood was illegal or that you played by all the rules. You're guilty! When the armed agents show up at your house and ask your family to stand aside as they search for your guitars can we blame it on your bad karma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yea... like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yea... like that [biggrin] [cursing] [confused] [crying] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yea... like that So true............. [thumbup] ................The POLICE tour again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesguitar65 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'd like to take one second to point something out to the karma cops here. If it turns out Gibson is guilty and your Gibson guitar has a post 2009 date stamped into the back of the head stock and a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard you are as guilty as Gibson of buying illegal wood. No no... don't start trying to say that Gibson or Guitar Center didn't tell you the wood was illegal or that you played by all the rules. You're guilty! When the armed agents show up at your house and ask your family to stand aside as they search for your guitars can we blame it on your bad karma? Oh yes, I can see it now. The FEDS with weapons drawn slamming your door for that post 2009 Gibson. The FEDS got a hold of your address because you "registered" your Gibson. Yes, I can see the Hysteria over these illegal woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Oh yes, I can see it now. The FEDS with weapons drawn slamming your door for that post 2009 Gibson. The FEDS got a hold of your address because you "registered" your Gibson. Yes, I can see the Hysteria over these illegal woods. It does sound stupid dosn't it? Armed agents looking for guitars and wood. It will probably never happen. You're still guilty though. Or does that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 So true............. [thumbup] ................The POLICE tour again.... the good ol days what we got now..george orwell was right Good Luck Henry !! call me sentimental but i am glad i am not young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 from an interview with Henry Juszkiewicz CHRIS DANIEL: Mr. Juszkiewicz, did an agent of the US government suggest to you that your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of American labor? HENRY JUSZKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that in a pleading. CHRIS DANIEL: Excuse me? HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that it a pleading. CHRIS DANIEL: That your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of our labor? HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: Yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxDrwj1xcU&feature=youtu.be Good luck to the american worker and industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 In my country i am a federal government employee i work at a university..i am not anti government and aspire to objective open thinking..i am concerned that an armed swat team would storm a factory with automatic weapons drawn at unarmed workers peacefully doing their work..this a fourth amendment violation of excessive force..it is not acceptable and we should speak up against this the more i look into this situation the more it appears something is really wrong 'John M. Rayfield, a special agent at the Fish and Wildlife service, concluding that Gibson's use of these woods violated Indian law. The law he cites in his affidavit, "W.E.F. 23.08.2010 Government of India, Ministry of Commerce and Industry," has nothing to do with overharvesting, illegal logging, or anything else related to the environment. Rather, it specifies labor content levels for wood thicker than 6 millimeters that is exported from India. In other words, Gibson stands accused of using U.S. instead of Indian labor to produce its guitars. Had the company imported a finished guitar from India, using the same rosewood and ebony, it would have been in compliance with Lacey.' that is why a swat team with automatic weapons drawn did the second raid ..is it just me or is something really not right here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'd like to take one second to point something out to the karma cops here. LOL!!! Now that's funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 from an interview with Henry Juszkiewicz CHRIS DANIEL: Mr. Juszkiewicz, did an agent of the US government suggest to you that your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of American labor? HENRY JUSZKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that in a pleading. CHRIS DANIEL: Excuse me? HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: They actually wrote that it a pleading. CHRIS DANIEL: That your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of our labor? HENRY JUSKIEWICZ: Yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxDrwj1xcU&feature=youtu.be Good luck to the american worker and industry If they wrote that down, I wanna ******* see it. Where's it at? And if I learned anything from watching Sons of Anarchy, always get unregistered guitars without a serial number, so they can't link that guitar to any crimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 If they wrote that down, I wanna ******* see it. Where's it at? And if I learned anything from watching Sons of Anarchy, always get unregistered guitars without a serial number, so they can't link that guitar to any crimes so if its a fake whos going to ask for a refund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 This article has some information about the Lacy Acy being used to seize instruments from individual musicians. Not only that but they are fined and sentenced for it too. If you don't have the cash to fight the feds you can always cop a plee. I'm glad Gibson is going to fight this one. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 This article has some information about the Lacy Acy being used to seize instruments from individual musicians. Not only that but they are fined and sentenced for it too. If you don't have the cash to fight the feds you can always cop a plee. I'm glad Gibson is going to fight this one. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html thats an interesting article it seems amazing that greenpeace sings gibsons praise for efforts to preserve rain forest timber and even they seem amazed that this has happened..regardless of how you feel about greenpeace they are not the sort of organization that would tolerate corporate duplicity if you tried to enter australia with a brazilian rosewood guitar i have heard that you will have customs all over you it is a very serious offence..it has been advised that any one with a timber like this would be advised to leave the guitar at home and not try to attempt to travel with it..many instruments particularly older instruments that may have prohibited woods and ivory for example could get you into trouble..there is a certain amount of tolerance in the states with the lacey act with individuals travelling with this type of guitar as it is regarded as personal luggage and is exempt from litigation however you would be advised to be very careful travelling outside the US ..you would be advised to have documentation regarding the nature of the prohibited products and you could be at risk of prosecution depending on the laws of that country..eg if you tried to enter australia with a brazilian guitar you would be in deep #$$@.. the other thing that concerns me is a 6th amendment violation over the 2009 raid as this amendment says that we are entitled to a fast and speedy trial..however no litigation has been held up or prosecution been made after 2 years and gibsons attempts to recover the timber has been unsuccessful and even possibly prompted this second raid even with no evidence of wrong doing or any prosecution being made .. there has to be some accountability from the justice department the constitution was put in place for these protections..i can see this and i am not american..it is hypocritical of federal authorities to disregard their own constitution in this way ..no doubt these posts are read by them also..if this was happening in australia there would be a huge public outcry..it is good you stand up for your rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'd like to take one second to point something out to the karma cops here. If it turns out Gibson is guilty and your Gibson guitar has a post 2009 date stamped into the back of the head stock and a Rosewood or Ebony fingerboard you are as guilty as Gibson of buying illegal wood. No no... don't start trying to say that Gibson or Guitar Center didn't tell you the wood was illegal or that you played by all the rules. You're guilty! When the armed agents show up at your house and ask your family to stand aside as they search for your guitars can we blame it on your bad karma? GREAT PIC! It says a lot here. See the "made in u.s.a."? That is not free anymore, it is a premium to have that stamp on anything. So, if you want to see that stamp, you better believe that the cost of these proceedings are going to be included in the guitars that say "GIBSON" "MADE IN U.S.A.", and "2012". If the people who work for the government here are able to continue as they have, we might not see that stamp at all in the future. KARMA dictates that if I don't choose to back up those that make that stamp happen and value these people that may need MY support, then I should expect no help or support when it happens to other companies and industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 GREAT PIC! It says a lot here. See the "made in u.s.a."? That is not free anymore, it is a premium to have that stamp on anything. So, if you want to see that stamp, you better believe that the cost of these proceedings are going to be included in the guitars that say "GIBSON" "MADE IN U.S.A.", and "2012". If the people who work for the government here are able to continue as they have, we might not see that stamp at all in the future. KARMA dictates that if I don't choose to back up those that make that stamp happen and value these people that may need MY support, then I should expect no help or support when it happens to other companies and industries. well if the government have there way it will read 'made in india/usa' it is a bad precedent you are right to speak out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Purdy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I got this email from Gibson this evening. I think we should sign the petiton. I'll take a pass. Way too much politicing on Henry's behalf. He should be fired - immediately. Gibson has turned into a three ring circus. PR run a muck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Good-bye Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Good-bye Jared Bravo sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Bravo sir I really don't get any joy out of bringing down the ban hammer on anyone, but this individual has elaborated on the same point over and over and over and over and over and over again Simply put, enough is enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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