Should i shave my saddle?

[Andrew]

i want to lower my action a bit....j-45rw sounds great but with my factory action sitting at close to 1/4" between the fat E and the 12th fret it required heavy fingers. (somehting like that anyway..i havnt measured properly but it's high).

 

im changing strings this weekend..should i just shave/file down the bottom of the saddle a bit? (neck is adjusted properly i think)

 

am i right in thinking that this is the way to lower my action?

 

whats the worst that could happen?

 

whats the best way to do this?

[modoc_333]

since you threw in the term "i think" about the neck being correct then you need to not touch it. 99% of the time i had customers tell me they wanted the action lowered so i should shave the saddle....... when it was really the neck that needed the love. the saddle seems to be the most obvious choice, but is usually the wrong one. it's also the irreversible one. let a pro check the neck first... a real pro tech or luthier. after that, if you want it lower then the saddle can be done. first you need to understand what you will lose though (volume, etc) if you shave it really low.... you may get some buzzing if you dig in really hard.

also, make sure you take it to someone that has shaved one before. it's not as easy as it seems.... not if you want the guitar to be at 100% of it's potential.

[Andrew]

since you threw in the term "i think" about the neck being correct then you need to not touch it. 99% of the time i had customers tell me they wanted the action lowered so i should shave the saddle....... when it was really the neck that needed the love. the saddle seems to be the most obvious choice' date=' but is usually the wrong one. it's also the irreversible one. let a pro check the neck first... a real pro tech or luthier. after that, if you want it lower then the saddle can be done. first you need to understand what you will lose though (volume, etc) if you shave it really low.... you may get some buzzing if you dig in really hard.

also, make sure you take it to someone that has shaved one before. it's not as easy as it seems.... not if you want the guitar to be at 100% of it's potential.[/quote']

 

 

hmmm...yeah. you're probably right..thanks.

[gearbasher]

My two cents to add to a good reply. If it does come down to "shaving" the saddle, I prefer to make a new one (or have a new one made) and keep the original as is. Just in case you want to switch back.

[nodehopper]

I agree with the above replies that in guitar set up you want to be 100% sure that the fundamentals of the instrument are where you want them based upon your playing style, technique and preferred string gauge. i.e. heavy strings have more tension and will generally cause your action to go upwards. Sanding down the height of the saddle is the last touch in getting the perfect action for you.

 

Once you have had a Luthier or Tech make sure your set up is good, then I think it is not a big deal to adjust the saddle to your preference.

 

I also agree that you should look at buying a replacement to adjust and save the original away ...just in case.

 

I have bought many bone replacement saddles from www.guitarsaddles.com Bob Colosi is great to work with.

 

The other comment I have is based on your impression that the strings are 1/4 high at the 12th fret .....makes me think that you should have a professional give the instrument a good set up. The general rule of thumb is that if you lower the saddle 1/4" that will roughly lower the action at the 12th fret by 1/8" inch. (basically a 2 to 1 ratio) So based upon your assessment..... I worry that you would need to lower your saddle too much to get the playability you are looking for.

 

Once you have the guitar set up correctly the saddle adjustment is quite easy and only takes a workbench with a very flat surface and a nice flat piece of moderate grit sand paper. Lay the sandpaper flat on the flat work bench. I usually take out the saddle and use a sharpie to color the flat bottom ...then sand all the marker off as evenly as possible. I do that a few times and leave myself above what I think I want...then reinstall the saddle and play it. I live with it for a few weeks and then if I am still unhappy .....I remove the saddle and do it again. Also the heaver bass strings will need to be a bit higher than the high E or B strings since the fatter strings deflect/move more than the thinner strings. Slow and cautious is the name of the game, but worst case you wasted about $40 and call and buy another new saddle from Bob Colosi

[Michael]

I got a new SJ200 about six weeks ago. The first thing I did was change the strings over to mediums. After playing now for six weeks I found, like you, that the action was way too high. I took it to a good guitar tech. and he said 99% of the time Gibsons from the factory have good straight necks they just leave the saddles really high to accomidate any type of playing style. He took my saddle down and now it is really sounding and playing beautifully.

My fingers appreciate it also!

[theDeuce]

I think every guitar owner should read the owner's manual. Well, I mean the owner's manual at Frets.com (click) Too bad this isn't in every guitar's owner's manual. It's a great website.

 

Even if you never intend to make adjustments or setups yourself, you'll better understand whats involved and be able to talk to and understand your guitar tech/luthier better.

[TheLiveSoundGuy]

Here was an interesting part of the read. I'm gonna have to try this one.

 

Install the string normally, locking it on the tuner post in the usual way, but don't tune it all the way to pitch. Then loosen the string just enough to release it at the bridge. With the string back out of the bridge, simply twist it a couple of turns to tighten the windings

 

Then, holding the string to keep it from untwisting, slip it back into the bridge and tunes up. "This little trick takes a bit of practice but it's a quick and easy way to improve brilliance on the bass."

[ballcorner]

Two words: Qualified technician

[Sitric]

I agree with the views already stated, but there's also the idea that we as guitar players should assume greater responsibility/control for what play - and I think learning how to deal with set-up issues such as saddle-height and neck relief is part of that - I think I remember reading somewhere that in days gone by Lutherie was part of the training programme for classical guitarists - makes sense.

Certainly we'd all save some money if we could tackle such things ourselves.

 

www.brendandevereux.com

[jefleppard]

great advice. gearbasher mentioned in another post, the benefits of a two-saddle system in a temperate zone. toronto has a hot, sticky summer (normally) and long, dry winters. a winter saddle can be handy when the guitar shrinks slightly due to dryness.

a point made about the non-reversability was very true. if you go too low, you are sol. also, if you play heavy-handed, low action will annoy you. leave it a little high and have a slight scallop to the neck to allow string vibration without buzz as the string vibration is widest around the middle of the neck length. fingerpickers can go as low as they like. in fact, they may as well just lay the strings across the frets. well, maybe not that low.

[jooonnn]

if you still have that stock tusq saddle i would consider changing it to west african hard ivory, or even bone. bob makes beautiful saddles. i have a hard ivory in my j-45 and it sounds absolutely great. as long as you don't shave too low you could always shim the saddle back up with some ebony shims that you can also get from bob as well. you generally want to do most of the action work with your truss rod and saddle simultaneously. you want to have at least 3-4/32's of an inch protruding out of the bridge at the highest point for your saddle so you don't suffer any tone/volume loss (theoretically). this should throw you at at least 3/32's of an inch at your 12th (usually more of a strumming action). you may want it a little lower if you fingerpick a little more like 5/64th's etc

[onewilyfool]

You should only shave your saddle if there is a lot of hair on it....

[theDeuce]

You should only shave your saddle if there is a lot of hair on it....

 

lol, I was thinking of writing that same note.

[ballcorner]

Now there is a song! I shaved my saddle slightly, in order that you might fit,

But somewhere near Toledo, I had to have a . . . .

[NevadaPic]

I agree with the views already stated' date=' but there's also the idea that we as guitar players should assume greater responsibility/control for what play - and I think learning how to deal with set-up issues such as saddle-height and neck relief is part of that - I think I remember reading somewhere that in days gone by Lutherie was part of the training programme for classical guitarists - makes sense.

Certainly we'd all save some money if we could tackle such things ourselves.

 

www.brendandevereux.com[/quote']

 

This is so. Do you really want to turn your guitar(s) over to someone you don't know? Be proactive!

[RogueBrit]

I am ready to be corrected, but I would be astounded if your 12 fret action is actually 1/4 inch. You need to measure the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret. The gap always appears to be much bigger than it is. Adjusting action by lowering the saddle needs to be considered along with other set-up parameters, like nut, neck relief, and even, possibly, fret levelling. I would also want to be sure there are no other factors influencing the action - like abnormal humidity, unusually heavy strings, tuning etc. I have never once been totally happy with factory setups - whether on Gibsons, Martins or other high end makes. Because the maker is aware that the guitar will be subject to all sorts of influences before it reaches a player - and that players needs vary according to playing style - factory specs will always tend to err on the high side all round.

 

This would likely not be the case with a guitar made and set up for an individual player by a small shop, when the builder will make the final adjustments that you should, IMO, be getting a competent repairman to do. Retail outlets, unless really specialist, have never been able to make me happy in this regard, BTW, and I would rather those that are not really expert leave things be. I do my own setup - but I also build guitars. If you don't have the knowledge, and your question implies you do not, a visit to someone who does will probably result in a revelation for the playability of your guitar.

 

If you want to find out for yourself, read Dan Erlewhine's guitar repair book, and those by Don Teeter, Hideo Kamimoto and Irving Sloane. Supplement this by the fantastic resources on-line, including Frank Fords FRETS site, and Bryan Kimsey's site. I am one of those that believe that guitarists ought to understand these things for themselves. But, then, everyone's different.

 

Roger

[gretchen55]

What if your guitar has a long saddle like on my new LG-2? Can it be shaved off the bottom or does it have to be lowered by shaving the top? It has a fairly complex curve.

[Thermionik]

Andrew - to answer your original questions:

 

The worst that could happen is the you will have no idea how much to take off, remove too much and get horrendous fret buzz.

 

The best way to do this is take it to a pro - because if you only 'think' the action is 'about' a 1/4inch, and if you only 'think' the neck is adjusted properly, you could 'think' you are on the right track when you are not.

 

Several folk have said it before - it is just as likely to be the neck adjustment.

 

Several folk have suggested getting a second unit and shaving that - this is called 'not burning your bridges' and means you can always get back to where you were and start again. Plus this gives you the original to compare the modded one to - very useful to work out how far to go.

 

Listen to these people, Andrew. All good information. And if, like gretchen255, you need to ask, go to a pro.

[guitarstrummer]

What if your guitar has a long saddle like on my new LG-2? Can it be shaved off the bottom or does it have to be lowered by shaving the top? It has a fairly complex curve.

 

It should be shaved off the top. That can be fairly tricky, so if you're not sure how to do it, take it to a qualified tech and have it done.