johnny_uk Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Is there a huge difference in sound between a ES 335 59 dot historic long tenon, and ES 335 custom dot(standard) short tenon. Does the long tenon neck make all the difference soundwise? Many Thanks Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyF Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 This is only my opinion, which I'm sure will be disputed by many others. When it come to Les Pauls, I believe that it makes a fairly significant difference. Moreover, I believe that the build quality, fit and finish, are much better on Historic LP's vs USA Standards. However, I don't see those differences, or at least not to that degree, on most ES-335's that I've played. I don't know if that answered the question, but I would go out and play a few and tell us what you think. I, for one, would be interested in hearing your take on the situation from a fresh perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I don't know much about ES guitars. Long tenon gives you a better neck joint. Is it better? The only person who can answer that is you. If you have a shop nearby that has one of each in stock, try out each guitar and then form an opinion. As for Les Paul, I agree with what LPC Admin wrote...but there are other differences between USA and CS Les Pauls as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyF Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 ...but there are other differences between USA and CS Les Pauls as well. Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_uk Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Thanks all for your response. Yes, I agree it would be better to try out as many long tenon and short tenon as I can. I will get back to you on that one. So far I have only played a few secondhand short tenon...... out of three I only found one that really sounded fantastic tonewise, and that was a guitar that had a headstock repair. The others were all good but didn't really knock me backwards! I have yet to try a 59 dot historic. The other thing is that I never plug in guitars I always like to hear the natural resonance from the wood first. Anyway, LPC and R9 I shall get back to you on this but it may be a while. Thanks again guys Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyF Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Not a problem Johnny. Lookin' forward to your report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Is there a huge difference in sound between a ES 335 59 dot historic long tenon' date=' and ES 335 custom dot(standard) short tenon. Does the long tenon neck make all the difference soundwise? Many Thanks Johnny[/quote'] None of the ES-335 have short tennons. It has been discussed 10,000 times in every guitar forum in the world. The tennons are equally long - but not quite a wide in the "standard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Troels, I didn't know that. Next time I replace the stings, I'm pulling the neck pup out to see for myself. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well, I'll be damned! Troels, I just unscrewed the neck pup and lifted it and sure enough, there it was looking back at me...long tenon. It doesn't look that wide. I have a 2007 Block neck...not the historic reissue with a block neck. Do you happen to have any pictures of the different tenon widths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_uk Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Thank you Troels for your informative response. May I ask........ in the 59' 335 specs they refer to a long tenon, yet in all other years they do not state long tenon. Why is that? In fact where did the term short tenon originate from?? As for 10,000 discussions in all the guitar forums in the world could you point me to these forums or point me to some evidence so as to enlighten me. I'm not doubting you, I would merely like to read something more evidence based. Many Thanks Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijllijn Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I've a 2006 Es 335 Gibson " Block Inlay " made in Memphis . I just changed the strings so i took of the Pup and took a picture of the neck tenon . I also have a Historic Block inlay made in Nashville , i'll change the strings tomorrow and will post a picture of the tennon . http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/pp18/mclaes_2008/?action=view¤t=Tennon1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Thank you Troels for your informative response. May I ask........ in the 59' 335 specs they refer to a long tenon' date=' yet in all other years they do not state long tenon. Why is that? In fact where did the term short tenon originate from??As for 10,000 discussions in all the guitar forums in the world could you point me to these forums or point me to some evidence so as to enlighten me. I'm not doubting you, I would merely like to read something more evidence based. Many Thanks Johnny[/quote'] A long tenon is a good sales argument - as it has become a sort of "mantra" among guitar players . There was a period in the 70s when 335s had short tenons (stopping at the end of the fingerboard). The reason was that the pick up cavity routing was done before gluing in the neck. These days the neck is set in before routing pick up cavities making it possible to include the routing of the tenon flush with the buttom of the cavity. The tenon on the Historics are slightly wider than the standard ES-335 tenon - but they are equally long. To look for further informations on tenons and other strange details on Gibson guitars you could go here: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49 or here: http://www.gibson-talk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijllijn Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Here's a picture of the tenon of a Gibson Es 335 '63 Historic Block reissue made in Nashville 2006 (Sunburst ) . And this is a tenon of a Gibson Es 335 Block Inlay Made in Memphis 2006 (Antique red). I love the 2 guitars . Unplugged the Nashville sounds a little louder and has more sustain . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 If you measure the two tenons out correctly you'll see, that they are almost identical in lenght. The semi circular shape of the non-vintage tenon looks shorter - because the round shape itself cheat you - but only a few mm actually differ the two tenons in lenght. That little piece and the wide makes absolutely no difference in neck stability between the two types. Maybe you even could say that the thin one is better as it leaves more wood behind in the center block??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijllijn Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You're right Troels , they're both almost as long . To my opinion both guitars are great , if i had to sell one it would be very hard to decide wich one .. I found this picture of an original 1959 neck tenon , it looks shorter to me than the reissue ... http://www.es-335.net/335/A29063.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You're right Troels ' date=' they're both almost as long . To my opinion both guitars are great , if i had to sell one it would be very hard to decide wich one ..I found this picture of an original 1959 neck tenon , it looks shorter to me than the reissue ... http://www.es-335.net/335/A29063.html [/quote'] Yes, the original tenon is definitely shorter... even shorter than the newer style RI tenon I guess... interesting. Maybe a way to tell the difference if somebody should get the idea of selling a new one for an older... things like that hapen from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildperv Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 How about an ES-333? Is there a difference in the tenon length? (than a 335) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Here's one for an ES-345 '67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Unplugged the Nashville sounds a little louder and has more sustain . That might have just as much to do with the Historic having an aluminum alloy stop tailpiece, along with all the other factors that might add up - wider neck tenon, press fit bushings instead of heavier bolt bushing tuners, woods from different sources, probably a thicker neck profile (they make 'em healthier in Nashville compared to Memphis, no?), made at different times of day... Thanks for the pics - I always wondered about how the 339 has such a skinny tenon compared to what you see on a Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I found this picture of an original 1959 neck tenon ' date=' it looks shorter to me than the reissue ... http://www.es-335.net/335/A29063.html [/quote'] GREAT link! I really enjoyed all information and the many unique pictures on this site, especially those about ES series construction. Kudos to you, tijllijn for posting the link, and especially to who over made the site. It might possibly be the best ES themed resource or book I've seen yet. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijllijn Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 That might have just as much to do with the Historic having an aluminum alloy stop tailpiece, along with all the other factors that might add up - wider neck tenon, press fit bushings instead of heavier bolt bushing tuners, woods from different sources, probably a thicker neck profile (they make 'em healthier in Nashville compared to Memphis, no?), made at different times of day... Yes the neck profile is not the same altough they're both '63 Sim Taper , the Nashville has a more pronounced "C profile" and is thicker . The Nashville-made weights 210 grams more than the Memphis-made altough the stop tailpiece of the Memphis made weights 89 grams and the aluminium stop tailpiece of the Historic weights only 39 grams . I wonder if you can buy that aluminium stop tailpiece separately ?? The fretboard on the Historic is Madagascar rosewood , the Memphis made Block Inlay has Indian rosewood . The neck-binding on both guitars is a little different too : thicker binding on the Memphis made ( a little less space for the fingers ). Both instruments are very well finished , the only thing that was "poor" on the Memphis made were the frets , i had to bring it to a profesional to get the "railroad effect" off . Hope my english writing is not too bad : i'm french .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Yes the aluminum alloy lightweight stop tailpiece is available as a Gibson replacement part (it's not cheap) and of course there are a number of aftermarket parts suppliers who will oblige. I happen to be impressed with the workmanship of the Gotoh aluminum (nickel plated) tailpiece that I got from Stewart MacDonald. I'd expect they're available over there as well. By the way I put one on my ES-339 and the biggest effect it had was to satisfy my curiosity. I'm trying to convince myself that the attack is more pronounced and the sound is more open and hollowbody in character, but there's probably very little discernable difference between the two tailpieces - just one of those things that they do to be historically correct that may or may not add up to a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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