HaggaiMagen Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Greetings, My name is Haggai and I'm a musician from Israel. First I would like to remark that I am using Gibson's products for more than 10 years now and I'm very satisfied with the product's high quality and reliability. I owned and still own many different Gibson guitars and I am pleased with all of them. Although, There is one exception which seems very strange and doesnt fit the good impression I have on Gibson's products. I have recently purchased a new Gibson Les-Paul Standard that was made in USA at 2009. It was bought from "Kley-Zemer" Israel which is an official importer of Gibson products in Israel. The defect description: When pulling-off guitar's first string (high E) downwards - it easily "slips" down off the fretboard and makes a dead note. At first I thought it was a setup issue but any proffesional setup shop I took the guitar too told me that it's a problem within the guitar's wood, the shape of the neck, and that it is probably a manufacturing defect. This problem limits the guitar from using pull-off technique on 1st string, and also happens sometimes during chords (and it sounds REALLY bad). When I studied deeper into the problem I noticed that most (not all) of 2009's Les-Paul Standard have the same defect. I have recorded a video explaining the problem and demonstrating how it happens, let me know if you want to see it and how can I transfer it to you (youtube maybe?). The store I bought the guitar from is "Kley-Zemer" in Afula city. When I came to them with this issue their answer was that the guitar is not under their warranty anymore because it was purchased more than a year ago, and that they have nothing to do with it. I am very aware of Gibson's justified reputation, and this is not what I expected from a new Gibson guitar which I payed full price for and I'm very disappointed with, it seems like the defect exist in most 2009's standard guitars that I've seen in Israel. Please let me know if there's something you could do to fix this problem or if it is possible to replace the guitar with the same guitar that does not have that problem. Thank you. Email me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggaiMagen Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 P.S The guitar was not exposed to any irregular temperatures, moisture or sunlight. It mostly rested in its original case or was played at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 What you are describing is a set up issue with the string spacing. It is definitely not a problem with the "wood". The slots in the nut and the slots in the saddle can be cut to have the strings positioned any way you would like them. Also, the factory can cut them in any way they think would be best. It does not mean that the way they are cut at the factory on that guitar is the best for your playing technique. The worst possible thing for you would be that you would have to have a new nut installed, and new saddles for the bridge, and have the strings placed in the perfect spot for your taste. Of corse, you might only require one of these. If you have other guitars that are playing the way you like, you could compare them taking note on where the strings land on the fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 What you are describing is a set up issue with the string spacing. It is definitely not a problem with the "wood". Nor, as Stein has already made pretty clear, does it sound like a 'Manufacturing Defect', which is what the title of your thread implies. Could you post pictures of the relevant area of your LP's neck and also that of the other Gibson guitars you have so we can see if there is much difference between them all? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 . Welcome. This issue has been brought up buy others on these forums in the past. It's not a defect. This is a player issue and is caused by the position of the nut slot for the high E string being a bit closer to the edge than some players are used to. Solutions - Most get used to the position through practice and never again have trouble with high E string slipping off the fretboard. Solutions - Others have a new nut cut allowing for a bit more distance between the high E string and the edge of the fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Have a new nut installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggaiMagen Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Installing a new original nut on a gibson costs a fortune, and that is pretty much disappointing thing to do with a NEW Gibson!!! =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinginalespaul Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 YES, it is a defect. I just posted about a new 2011 les paul that had the same issue. ANY player with experience should be able to pull off on the high e string without the high e string flying off of the fretboard. Either the nut was cut bad ...to close to the edge of the fretboard, or the binding was rolled in too close to the fretboard. Do NOT accept a defect like that. And don't accept other posters blaming it on you. That really disgusts me. For you to notice this and experience this is proof that there is an issue. I've never experience it before on any guitar i've ever owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Installing a new original nut on a gibson costs a fortune, and that is pretty much disappointing thing to do with a NEW Gibson!!! =\ There is nothing that says you need an "official" Gibson nut. It really should not cost very much. It will not affect the value of the guitar in any way (except perhaps be more playable to you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 You blamed a bad nut or binding issue as a player issue. And I'm the noob and the one with the attitude? I've played dozens of les pauls without that issue. So it is that guitar that he has that is the issue, as i experienced the exact same thing on a les paul that I had. Check my attitude? He shouldn't settle for a guitar with this issue and being blamed for it does disgust me. So please, carry on with your golden pearls of widsom. Well, yea, you ARE the noob with a tude. There is a LOT more experience here than just you and me. It is not that you are a "noob" that makes your experience less valid, but that you assume that you are right and every other poster is wrong. The guy has had the guitar for a year-no returning it. So ranting about a bad set-up from the factory will do no good. And thinking the guitar is somehow defective makes it worse. A simple set up with a new nut and possibly saddles solves EVERYTHING here. Many HAVE had an issue at first and found it wasn't after getting used to it. He asked for advice, and we gave it. So, do you think you may have misunderstood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Find a luthier and have a bone nut installed, problem solved. This usually costs about 30-40 bucks on these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggaiMagen Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 YES, it is a defect. I just posted about a new 2011 les paul that had the same issue. ANY player with experience should be able to pull off on the high e string without the high e string flying off of the fretboard. Either the nut was cut bad ...to close to the edge of the fretboard, or the binding was rolled in too close to the fretboard. Do NOT accept a defect like that. And don't accept other posters blaming it on you. That really disgusts me. For you to notice this and experience this is proof that there is an issue. I've never experience it before on any guitar i've ever owned. I think you're right. Anyways I might just go and install a new nut on the guitar - but I will make sure that every musician I know will be aware of the fact that new gibsons are just not made at the same quality they used to and they just dont worth the price anymore. I will also post the video showing the guitar's defect to youtube. From a brand name like gibson I expect to do something - if any of you guys above are somehow related to gibson's team - even if more than a year passed already. it takes more than a year to understand such a problem because I've never seen anything like it in any other GOOD guitar ever before so I just didnt believe its not a setup problem. Is there a way I could write to gibson's team about it? the comments in the support page allow only 400 charecters per comment and its just not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggaiMagen Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Find a luthier and have a bone nut installed, problem solved. This usually costs about 30-40 bucks on these parts. If I wanted to buy a new guitar and replace its nut while its still new - I would have bought an unknown guitar made in Indonesia, not a USA standard les paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 a warranty isn't a guarantee, but why not ship it to Gibson USA for an evaluation? did you buy it new or used? if new, you should have noticed this issue when you 1st purchased it if used, you're out of luck get an aftermarket nut installed on it (they're better than most stock nuts anyhow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think you're right. Anyways I might just go and install a new nut on the guitar - but I will make sure that every musician I know will be aware of the fact that new gibsons are just not made at the same quality they used to and they just dont worth the price anymore. I will also post the video showing the guitar's defect to youtube. From a brand name like gibson I expect to do something - if any of you guys above are somehow related to gibson's team - even if more than a year passed already. it takes more than a year to understand such a problem because I've never seen anything like it in any other GOOD guitar ever before so I just didnt believe its not a setup problem. Is there a way I could write to gibson's team about it? the comments in the support page allow only 400 charecters per comment and its just not enough. HaggaiMaagen - If you want to let Gibson know about your concern, the best thing to do is email their customer service team. You can get some good opinions here, but it's best to let Gibson know directly. If you have a question about your warranty, go through the proper channels. It's a legal issue and not a practical issue. Nobody on this forum can help you with your warranty. We can only guess what Gibson will do for you. My guess is that this issue is not a warranty issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think you're right. Anyways I might just go and install a new nut on the guitar - but I will make sure that every musician I know will be aware of the fact that new gibsons are just not made at the same quality they used to and they just dont worth the price anymore. I will also post the video showing the guitar's defect to youtube. From a brand name like gibson I expect to do something - if any of you guys above are somehow related to gibson's team - even if more than a year passed already. it takes more than a year to understand such a problem because I've never seen anything like it in any other GOOD guitar ever before so I just didnt believe its not a setup problem. Is there a way I could write to gibson's team about it? the comments in the support page allow only 400 charecters per comment and its just not enough. you cant go trying to rip Gibson a new ring piece because you failed to notice the issue when you bought the guitar. Did you go to the shop and try it out? or did you order it without playing it and had it delivered to you? if you have owned Gibsons before then there is no excuse for having this guitar for so long without taking it back for an exchange or refund, poop happens things get slipped, but know that gibson set up guitars nuetral and expect you to adjust them to your playing style. We do not know your style, we do not have the guitar in our hands, we can only give our oppinion but as experienced players we know that replacing the nut and saddles set up to your style will resolve the issue. the other option is to continue having the hump with us an Gibson an not getting anything resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If I wanted to buy a new guitar and replace its nut while its still new - I would have bought an unknown guitar made in Indonesia, not a USA standard les paul! That is always an option. It may be the best one for you. If MADE IN USA means anything, it is about the poeple who make it and the care that goes into it. Americans are no better than anyone else, so MADE IN USA does not mean it is better just because we are Americans, but because for some things we take a personal interest in what we make. It comes down to responsibility and standing behind a product, and I believe you are saying that. But what is lacking on your part is your own personal responsibility. Gibson requires that dealers so far from the US provide warrenty service because it is just not possible to cover shipping and cost to make it possible to do business so far away. However it happened, by taking longer than a year, you have removed the options by those who would be able to help you because they can not sell the guitar to someone else. That means for someone to help you, they would have to absorb the cost. The guitar can not be fixed and sold as new. The dealer, also, in order to have the repair paid for, now has a rough time explaining to someone who would pay them back after a year. So, now you want someone to possibly spends hundreds in order to replace or ship, but you won't spend such a small amount on your own behalf? If you can not stand on your own and be willing to accept personal responsibility for your own actions, how can you hold others responsible? Gibson's are only different because of the care that goes into them, by poeple trying to get you the best instrument and caring what the musician wants to have and what you have to pay. If you can not see the quality you already have in that guitar and have no concern for what others will have to pay because you have taken so long, there is no reason for you to have to pay so much for quality you can't appreciate. Like L5LARRY said, Gibson may not be for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I was going to point out some of the many comical absurdities posted by a couple of the newer folk here but Life's Just Too Damn Short. Where's my Geet? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinginalespaul Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 No disrespect to anyone ...but bottom line Gibson does let defects out the door and for the price of their guitars they could do a better job. That is a direct reason why companies like paul reed smith blossomed. Quality control. Yes, he could have inspected/noticed it when he bought it, but that doesn't change the fact Gibson shipped it out the door. He didnt flame anyone, he simply realized an issue and asked for help. I have experienced the exact same issue as well as others, I don't flame, I express my concern ...then bought another one. Nothing touches that killer Gibson grind in my opinion ...so when I spend $2k plus and have defects I get bummed. But it's definitely not MY fault. Gibson built it. Again, no disrespect to anyone. Kill the disease (prevent the defect from getting out the door), dont treat the symtoms (expect/blame a player for getting/fixing it). Again, nothing touches a well built les paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Can all involved keep their attitudes in check.... My advice to the original poster is to contact Gibson Customer Service and privately handle this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 No disrespect to anyone ...but bottom line Gibson does let defects out the door and for the price of their guitars they could do a better job. That is a direct reason why companies like paul reed smith blossomed. Quality control. Yes, he could have inspected/noticed it when he bought it, but that doesn't change the fact Gibson shipped it out the door. He didnt flame anyone, he simply realized an issue and asked for help. I have experienced the exact same issue as well as others, I don't flame, I express my concern ...then bought another one. Nothing touches that killer Gibson grind in my opinion ...so when I spend $2k plus and have defects I get bummed. But it's definitely not MY fault. Gibson built it. Again, no disrespect to anyone. Kill the disease (prevent the defect from getting out the door), dont treat the symtoms (expect/blame a player for getting/fixing it). Again, nothing touches a well built les paul. It's all good. I think we all got off on the wrong foot here. This deal with the nut slots is being made into a little too much. At the most, one can say that the nut is defective because it is cut too close to the edge, and sure, that can be a problem, and one Gibson might should address. But to go from that, then to being told by others there is a defect in the wood, to the guitar being defective, to expecting a replacement over a year later, to Gibson has poor quality and costumer issues is fruitless. We should be here to share our joy, maybe get some tips from each other. We should be lucky we even HAVE Gibsons at all, as there are plenty that wish they did and can't. Hell, if I am cutting a new nut onto a Gibson, life can't be all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggaiMagen Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 HaggaiMaagen - If you want to let Gibson know about your concern, the best thing to do is email their customer service team. You can get some good opinions here, but it's best to let Gibson know directly. If you have a question about your warranty, go through the proper channels. It's a legal issue and not a practical issue. Nobody on this forum can help you with your warranty. We can only guess what Gibson will do for you. My guess is that this issue is not a warranty issue. How do I email them? I couldnt find the address anywhere on gibson's site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hello HaggaiMagen! I might be wrong, but Your country should be covered by the european division. The phone number of Gibson Customer Support is 1-800-444-2766. They will tell You who to contact. Good luck! Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGtransblack Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 When pulling-off guitar's first string (high E) downwards - it easily "slips" down off the fretboard and makes a dead note. At first I thought it was Email me Hello I thought i would help you since i havnt heard yet. I own a 1996 Standard. It too has a very short throw off the fretboard. I searched and searched a long time ago and what it is is that the Les Paul Standard is just designed this way. At least this particular style of Standard. Mine even says "Standard" on the truss rod cover. If it says Standard on your truss rod cover I would bet money this is the STandard design as far back as 1996 and who knows. I love my guitar and have learned how to play it given this issue. I can do pulloffs and hammerons all day now. you just have to have a strong supporting finger. Once you get used to holding the string firmly down you will see that pulling off is just fine. If you do a bar pull off then you definitely shouldnt have an issue. I play all kinds of Rock. Lastly what i am saying will improve technique anyway. Make the guitar yours and it will Love you back is what i have found out with Gibsons. I have a lot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Hello I thought i would help you since i havnt heard yet. I own a 1996 Standard. It too has a very short throw off the fretboard. I searched and searched a long time ago and what it is is that the Les Paul Standard is just designed this way. At least this particular style of Standard. Mine even says "Standard" on the truss rod cover. If it says Standard on your truss rod cover I would bet money this is the STandard design as far back as 1996 and who knows. I love my guitar and have learned how to play it given this issue. I can do pulloffs and hammerons all day now. you just have to have a strong supporting finger. Once you get used to holding the string firmly down you will see that pulling off is just fine. If you do a bar pull off then you definitely shouldnt have an issue. I play all kinds of Rock. Lastly what i am saying will improve technique anyway. Make the guitar yours and it will Love you back is what i have found out with Gibsons. I have a lot too. Unfortunatly after 2008 your Standard became a "Traditional" post 08 Standards have a DC Asymmetrical neck (Fatter on the bass side) and is PLEK'd Regarding the original posters point I own 3 Les Pauls (with 59 & the DC necks) and they all do this when bending downwards, it's just how the guitars are setup. For that string you need to bend upwards, it may take some getting used to, but shouldn't be too much of an issue. However if its just your finger slipping off I surgest that you try playing with your thumb resting on the back of the neck so you have more hand underneath & over the strings. Goodluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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