rebel08 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I just put a some '57 classics in my guitar, the classic plus in the bridge and regular '57 at the neck. Well the classic not only sounds 10 times better, crisper, great note articulation not muddy at all but the Plus has some issues. First the output is lower than the '57, second it is muddy and harse. I used Gibson 500k pots, Mojo oil can caps, I have tried the pu close to the strings, far away, I have adjusted pole pieces nothing seems to help. Am I missing something. Does anybody have any idea what could be the cause of my issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel08 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Let me ask this, does raising or lowering the pole pieces have any effect on the pu's tone? I am not talking about the pole pieces distance from the strings, just as far as the pu goes, does moving the pole screws effect output and or tone in any way? I will try and attach a sound clip when I get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm not sure what is going on, but I'll be following this thread....Interesting....... The 57 Plus is wound a bit hotter, but not enough to make it muddy................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 What wiring are you using Modern or 50's Wiring? Plus can you post some picture (particularly close up shots) of your bridge set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 pole piece adjusting balances the strings to the pup raising the pickup will increase volume and alter tone. however the Plus should have a higher output. have you measured the resistances with a Volt Meter? also check all contact points for the pup no shorts cracked solder / bad joints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel08 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I appreciate the reply's but the pickup is still not up to par. The '57 Classic in the neck sounds great, but the Classic Plus is terrible. Output is same as Classic maybe even lower, clarity is quacky at best and even with a .001 cap on vol pot as a trebel bleed it is muddy and dark. It does not make any difference if I am in a clean amp settng or high gain, it just plain sounds bad. I have some sound clips on my iPad if I can figure out how to get them on the sight I will do so. Details: Basswood body, Mahogany Neck with Rosewood fret board, Wilkinson Wrap around stop-tail bridge. Gibson 500K Pots, .022 MoJo Tone Oil can caps, Wiring is Fender Cloth 22g soild core, the unpluged tone of the guitar is on the high side and notes ringout perfectly, my multi meter read the pick at 8.8K and I used the diagram from the Seymour Duncan site to wire it. http://www.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/2h_2v_2t_3w.pdf I strung it with Gibson Vintage 10's So, the trebel bleed did not work and its not just the output, but also the clarity of the pu. Could I have gotten a bad pickup? If so How do I tell, what can I do? Just an aside, are the neck and bridge 57 classic plus that much different in tone? Could I have gotten a Neck model, in the wrong box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel08 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Here is a sound clip. Please ignor the poor play, it is the whole reason I build and repairs guitars. Clean Bridge 3.wav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Here is a sound clip. Please ignor the poor play, it is the whole reason I build and repairs guitars. neck and bridge position wouldnt make that much of a difference, one of the Gibson guys here on the forum even said they have been sending out 57' sets with neck / neck stickers. 57' classic and 57' Classic Plus are not that different it comes stock on the Les Paul Traditionals, Plus is just slightly overwound so certainly nothing like what you are experiencing. Ok so if you have checked all the wiring and there are no faulty pots / caps / joints then I would be inclined to blame the pup. on another note is it a single conductor or 4 conductor wire for the pup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel08 Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 neck and bridge position wouldnt make that much of a difference, one of the Gibson guys here on the forum even said they have been sending out 57' sets with neck / neck stickers. 57' classic and 57' Classic Plus are not that different it comes stock on the Les Paul Traditionals, Plus is just slightly overwound so certainly nothing like what you are experiencing. Ok so if you have checked all the wiring and there are no faulty pots / caps / joints then I would be inclined to blame the pup. on another note is it a single conductor or 4 conductor wire for the pup? It is a single conductor wire with metal braded shield. How would I check the Cap? I have done continuity checks and grounding checks on the whole guitar, but I am not sure that would catch a bad capacitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 It is a single conductor wire with metal braded shield. How would I check the Cap? I have done continuity checks and grounding checks on the whole guitar, but I am not sure that would catch a bad capacitor. best an easiest way is to swap over the caps and see if the problem moves to the other pup. the final test I would do before branding the pup as an epic failure is wire it up in another guitar. if the problem still persists then you can be sure that you have done everything you can and you have a faulty pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Sounds like a bad connection to me. Get in that control cavity and poke around to see if theres a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 what cap value do you have in there .022? Yeah take pictures of the control so we can take a look in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel08 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have done every thing that has been suggested. I also bought a new multimeter with cap tester. I re solder joints, changed from .022 Mojo tone paper and oil cap to to .01 Ornage Drop Sprauge, changed strings, reset bridge, raised and lowered pickups and it still sounds terrible. I have given up, I ordered a SD 59 yesterday to replace it. I would exchange it but i can not find the reciept. While I am on my soap box, the Gibson pots I used are not worth the money either, $5 cts beats $12 Gibson hands down. one works fine i guess the other one Barely puts out any vol until it get to between 4 and 5. I tried 3 different versions of treble bleed kits, but it did not help. I am taking the pots out when I replace the Classic + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 While I am on my soap box, the Gibson pots I used are not worth the money either, $5 cts beats $12 Gibson hands down. one works fine i guess the other one Barely puts out any vol until it get to between 4 and 5. I tried 3 different versions of treble bleed kits, but it did not help. I am taking the pots out when I replace the Classic + CTS are high quality, I replace all my gibson pots with CTS Audio Tapers. you'll find the CTS have a +/- 5% tolerance where as the gibson pots I pulled out where all over the place. Measure your pots before you put them in the more balanced they are (close to the pot value) the better overall balanced tone. 500k brighter or 300k darker for volume but use a 500k for the tone. you'll find all VOS reissues and most custom shop models are all CTS. Shame about the PUP but it was as I feared. The SD 59' is a real nice pup. Tone is superb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yeah can CTS Pots at WD Music http://www.wdmusic.com/cts_500k_audio_taper_pot_10_tolerance_long_shaft.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESPguy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Sounds like a bad pickup to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greglawrence Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Here are some real life measurements of '57 Classic pups: 2005 CS-356 Neck: 7.68 Bridge: 7.56 2003 LP Double Cut Plus Neck: 7.15 Bridge: (stock pup-not 57 @ 12.83) 2002 SG Standard Neck: 7.29 Bridge: 8.20 (Classic Plus) Epiphone USA MAP Neck: 7.46 Bridge: 8.41 (Classic Plus) I have been replacing stock pups with the '57 Classics, but as you can see there is a wide range of "tolerance" or a very small range of Quality Control. I am kind of bummed out that Gibson lets these pups go out with such wide ranging values. It makes me think about Zildjian cymbals ...where you have to seek and find each one individually...but when you do...it's better than a blow job from god...who is a woman. It seems that values below 7.45k on the '57 Classic almost turn it into a "different" pickup. I called Gibson and they said that the range of a '57 Classic should be around 7.5k. I asked them what should be said about the wide variance, and they had no answer. With this said, I must state that when playing hard strumming rock rhythms, the lower output of 7.15 or 7.29 works well and sounds meaty beaty big and bouncy! -but it causes me to adjust my rig so that the very nature of adding a little more oomph to make up for the weaker output tends to make the tone more compressed, and does not seem to work as well as simply using a slightly if not significantly hotter pickup...but not too hot. I suggest taking a multimeter with you when purchasing, or in the very least, measure that pup before you hit it with hot solder. Don't be like me and make the "Classic" mistake by finding out everything the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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