Jinder Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Hi all, After seven long years of picking, grinning and travelling the world together, I've decided it's time to part ways with my SJ200. I love the guitar dearly, but I have a problem with my shoulder (as discussed here long ago) which prevents me playing a super-jumbo for long periods of time. I was given an Epiphone EJ200 which I like a great deal but isn't worth much, and it seems profligate to have two examples of a guitar I can't play comfortably. Nowadays my comfortable and oh-so-portable Blues King is my main player, so the venerable SJ200 is on the block. I have, amongst others, the opportunity to buy the following, to replace the '200: Gibson Advanced Jumbo Gibson J185 Guild F40 Valencia What are your thoughts on those three? As I have a small bodied guit in my Blues King, I don't really want to go too small again, so a slope dread, small jumbo or OM/GC model would all suit me fine. So far, my Pros and cons are: AJ - Pros:long scale, rosewood (I have no RW atm), great looks, loud, is used so is played in well Cons:I've heard the forward shifted X-bracing can cause bellying probs, they are supposedly variable in tone J185 - Pros:looks beautiful, has the crosses, I like maple, used so is played in Cons:I'd quite like a change from a maple J, short scale isn't preferable for me F40 - Pros:sounds great, versatile, good projection, lifetime warranty, nice size Cons:1 11/16ths nut is narrower than I'm used to, it's a bit plain-jane, is new so needs a setup (no biggie) So far, the F40 is the only one I've been able to try out as the other two aren't local to me. What would you gents and ladies go for? Can anyone give me some more pros and cons on each model, and some potential probs to look for? So far the AJ is in pole position, but I'm an open minded guy.
larryp58 Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Hey Jinder! I've been really gassing for an AJ myself. I was in a Guitar Center a while back and played several J-45's, SongWriters, and H-Birds. There was one Advanced Jumbo that I saved for last. When I hit the first strum I knew that this was a well kept secret of Gibson!!! It blew all the others away. Great tone, feel, appearance. But the volume! I couldn't believe how much this guitar projected! So I had a friend play it while I stood several feet in front of him. Even more great tone! I'm definely sold on the AJ's. Wildwood Guitars (www.wildwoodguitars.com)has a real good collection of AJ's. I'd love to have one those Custom Shop Wildwood AJ's they have there. Got a lot of cash to save before that happens.
Jerry K Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 The 185 has a 16" lower bout like the AJ, but the waist is narrower, so the 185 will probably feel better for your shoulder. The tone of those three are very different!
Guth Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 This is how I have gone about acquiring the instruments I own: I identify the models that I'm interested in and over the years, play as many examples of those models as I can until I find one I simply can't put down. For years I had admired the J45, the J185 as well as the AJ. To my ear, there is quite a bit of variability of tone between examples of all models, however I felt that the AJ was the most consistent from one example to the next. I can't remember playing an AJ that wasn't lively whereas a good number of J45s and J185s just didn't have it. Over time I ended up with a J45 TV and an AJ. Both are stellar guitars (to my ear anyway) and I greatly enjoy each of them in their own way. I understand that the AJ isn't everyone's cup of tea. I personally find it to be a very versatile guitar that is as loud as any guitar I've ever played and is great for fingerpicking, flatpicking and strumming. But it is a bold and brash machine and while it still has that "Gibson thing" going on, it is totally different than my J45. I'd still love to own a J185 someday, but I can't see myself trading away either my J45 nor my AJ for one. But if I ever found one that really blew me away, well who knows? As far as the bellying goes, I can't say. Both of my Gibsons feature the forward shifted X-bracing design, the AJ is a 2006 and the J45 is a 2008 so they just don't have that much mileage on them yet. I string them both up with mediums, so I'm a prime candidate for problems in this area if they're going to happen. Knock on wood (mahogany and rosewood in my case) and all that. The bottom line from my perspective: if you know that you like both the J185 and the AJ, I think that you stand a much better chance of landing an AJ that will please you. Both great guitars in my mind though and sometimes luck has a funny way of interjecting itself. Here's hoping your luck is all good in the search for your J200's replacement. Guth
BigKahune Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 . Reading your comments, seems to me you'd like to have the AJ as long as the top/bracing is stable. So, look the AJ over and see what you think. Might be a keeper. .
slimt Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 For Me .. It would be the AJ.. As For the Structure... Ive owned many standard AJs and Many Custom Shops.. I never had any issues..
EuroAussie Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Id go for the AJ, its a real tone monster. Recently played a couple really nice ones and have become a fan. I think with the J-185 you might get frustrated as when I play one I feel as there is a J-200 trying to get out, but quite cant. Havent played the Guild.
Eddie Rondack Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I think maple is better plugged in (if you use a UST).
Jinder Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 Hi all, Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. I'm pretty much sold on the AJ, I've always wanted one. This one is a 2002 and seems really up-together. Every AJ I've played or heard has knocked my socks off, which is not the case with J185s, although I've heard some great ones. I have short scale to hand in the form of my BK, and whilst it's all part of the charm of the BK, I found it a bit constrictive on the two Hummingbirds I owned. I am a big RW fan but haven't owned a RW guitar for a long time. I'm also keen on loud guitars as I have some hearing loss from 13yrs of touring (and not looking after my hearing as a teenager in a rock band), so a guitar that shouts at me is ideal! I've just made an appointment to view them both a week today...it's a 3hr drive away, but I'm playing a house concert in the area that night and will be able to tie in the two...I'll keep you all posted. Any more opinions would be grand!
E-minor7 Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Several things point towards the A. Jumbo, I'm sure we'll hear in which direction the tree fell. Wonder : Is the AJ/Guild better for the shoulder than the Bird ? Wouldn't it be strange to suddenly the play the 200's smaller brother ? Isn't it hard to depart from 2 loyal horses within a season ? How come there's no 45 in the heat – the scale ? No doubt Guilds are splendid instruments. I had 1 a few months, but sold it this spring. A well-kept orange/red/brownburst F-40 from the early70's. It sounded great, but, , , , was too well behaved. Had soul – Lacked rock ! I sense you know what you're doin'. Your inner voice will outrule any advice. Still a good idea to present the situation. Can I ask – Do you have a Mothership. Is there a lifesize whatever guitar in the herd. . .
Jinder Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 Several things point towards the A. Jumbo, I'm sure we'll hear in which direction the tree fell. Wonder : Is the AJ/Guild better for the shoulder than the Bird ? Wouldn't it be strange to suddenly the play the 200's smaller brother ? Isn't it hard to depart from 2 loyal horses within a season ? How come there's no 45 in the heat – the scale ? No doubt Guilds are splendid instruments. I had 1 a few months, but sold it this spring. A well-kept orange/red/brownburst F-40 from the early70's. It sounded great, but, , , , was too well behaved. Had soul – Lacked rock ! I sense you know what you're doin'. Your inner voice will outrule any advice. Still a good idea to present the situation. Can I ask – Do you have a Mothership. Is there a lifesize whatever guitar in the herd. . . E-Minor, interesting questions...the Guild is certainly small enough to present no problems whatsoever with my shoulder. I'm not sure about the AJ but would hazard a guess that it would be okay. The 'Bird was fine most of the time, but sometimes felt bulky if my shoulder was troubling me after playing the SJ200. It would be odd to play the baby brother of the SJ200, but I like the tone of a maple jumbo, so I'll audition it and see how I get on. With regard to departing from two faithful steeds, the 'Bird left the stable quite some time ago-in June 2010 I believe. I miss it sometimes, but the BK is superb and I have no regrets in changing. On the J45 topic, I've owned two in the past and have found them to be lovely guitars. I always have an eye for the underdog though, and maybe somewhere at the back of my mind there's a little voice ruminating on whether the J45 is too popular...I'm also not superkeen on owning another short scale hog dread. My BK is bubinga, but sounds remarkably similar to my old hog '45, so I've kinda got that tone covered with the BK (albeit with a bit less bass). I think you're right about the Guild, it does have soul, but not much rock! I've almost ruled it out, in all honesty. I restrung my BK today and spent an hour playing in the new strings around the house, and in that time realised I'll be a Gibson player 'til the day I die. That tone just speaks to me, resonates with some part of me deep inside. I don't really have a touchstone guitar, a mothership...my SJ200 used to be, I have spent a lot of my life with that guitar and have travelled the world with it, but it's hard to maintain that die-hard alliegance with a guitar when it starts to get painful to play it. I like my BK a LOT but I've not bonded with it at that deep a level...I think it may come in time, but for now we have an easy-going, compatible companionship rather than the romance of the century. I guess I'm seeking a new 'best friend' guitar-a keeper, something different, special, toneful, playable, powerful, beautiful, something I'll never want to put down...but then again, aren't we all?
E-minor7 Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 E-Minor, interesting questions... I wish you luck and will follow things'n'strings from the wing – see ya Sir. . . .
onewilyfool Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 You know Jinder, at our local Gibson store, they have the "Pro" series guitars, which have a shallower box depth than regular jumbos, etc. I don't know if they have them where you are, but might be worth a look!! Good luck!!
Jinder Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 You know Jinder, at our local Gibson store, they have the "Pro" series guitars, which have a shallower box depth than regular jumbos, etc. I don't know if they have them where you are, but might be worth a look!! Good luck!! Wily, I've never seen one of those...I like the Super Dove though, if one of those came along at the right price I'd be interested. Are the Pro Series a similar concept? Only six days to go until my guitar auditioning expedition...the chap in question has some other interesting Gibsons including a '65 J50 and a couple of early '70s Gospels (I've read that these are a rare example of a Norlin era box that are consistently decent, so I look forward to trying those and reporting back), a few other intriguing bits and bobs too. In all honesty, I'm not particularly bothered about year, model, even appearance-I want something that is solid, sounds amazing, plays well and speaks to me. I'll be sure to report my findings (with pics of the eventual victor, should I find one!)
jdd707 Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I'm and AJ guy and mine is my go to guitar ..... owned and traded other models but the AJ remains.
Jinder Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 I'm and AJ guy and mine is my go to guitar ..... owned and traded other models but the AJ remains. JDD, as yours is coming up for 20yrs old you're probably best placed to answer my questions re stability etc...have you had any probs with top bellying/dishing, neck resets needed etc? I ask because I'm led to believe the AJ is lightly braced and, in conjunction with the long scale, this can lead to potential problems. What gauge strings are you using on your AJ?
jgwoods Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 If your shoulder problem is making you part with a lifetime friend guitar then I don't see how another deep body guitar will work. I had a J-185 and sold it because of the reach over the deep body. I kept my Guild GSR F-40 because it has the shallower body and it plays wonderfully. There are times I regret selling the Gibby but the Guild is a real player and doesn't leave me with a sore shoulder for playing it .
Rambler Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 "But it [the Adv. jumbo] is a bold and brash machine and while it still has that "Gibson thing" going on, it is totally different than my J45." Guth. That was my take on the one that passed through my hands a while back. Mine barked, where other guitars rang. More of a P90 kind of sound, if you will. All a matter of taste, but I wouldnt think it the first choice for what I've heard of your music (my .02c from New Hampshire). What someone else posted re considering the depth of the guitar as well as its width is worth some thought. I had one of those deep body Blues Kings that was as bothersome in its way as a jumbo. Gibson's J180/Everly Bros, and the Yoakam YK2 models are 16' maple Js 4.25 deep. Worth a look but not so easy to find. Also, the Cj165M and Emmylou Harris jobs (15" Js). Or the Costelleo Century (pricey, tho). Fyi, Ive been able to manage the size of my slope J by playing with a strap, as does Ernie Hawkins. Cheers, Rambler
Rambler Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 ps Jinder, an AJ just isnt going to ring like this. And this sounds great to my tin ear (just saying). Peace, Rambler
BluesKing777 Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Hi Jinder. I had a pinched nerve in my neck and left the metal Dobro and a Martin D in the closet when I bought my Blues King. I agree with Rambler that a 185 is not the answer to shoulder problems, just the answer to guitar lust. Have you tried the LG series? (I started with an LG-0 and loved it, then bought a LG-1 and loved it, and sitting waiting (by the mailbox) for a b25-12n to be delivered. This is a LG with a 12 string neck!) The LG-2/3 are x-braced like the Blues King. Not for everybody I know, but a suggestion. BluesKing777.
Jinder Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 JG, that's very interesting...a vote for the Guild, I like the F40 a lot (I wish they still made the USA ones in Maple, the Maple F40s from Hoboken and Westerly I've played were stunning) but I'm a bit stuck on the neck, I have big hands and the 1 11/16ths nut width is a tiny bit cramped for me. With regard to the body depth, I've found with my shoulder problem (it's scar tissue on a tendon that is aggravated by elevation and rotation of the joint), body size and depth are as much of a problem as each other. I've tried shallower boxes such as the Guild GAD 30R (great sound, but the two I owned had structural issues that I couldn't get around), which were indeed very comfortable, but it seems that my shoulder only really plays up when reaching around the extreme bulk of the '200. My physio, after watching me play the SJ200 for a few minutes explained that the tendon damage was likely due to playing the same big guitar four or five nights a week, during studio sessions and writing sessions, not due to the guitar itself specifically, but because I was wearing it a little too high on the strap, which put my shoulder in an awkward position. As a result, the enlarged/scarred area of the tendon in question is in the specific region that is in use/under stress when in the position that I assume by habit when playing the SJ200. I found the problem was significantly less noticeable when playing my old 'Bird, but I changed the 'Bird for my BK because I wanted to see if the problem would be completely ameliorated by playing a really small box. That gamble paid off, and the BK is a great stage guitar-the place where my shoulder is in use most of the time in a guitar-playing capacity, but I think the time is right to move the '200 on and get a slightly smaller guitar that will do something different to the BK and will be a useful and more comfortable foil for studio work and occasional live use. I'm not looking for a live workhorse, as I have that in the BK, just something that I can use for writing, recording and the occasional gig, so ultimate comfort isn't paramount, but I'd like something that doesn't quite have the awkward heft of the SJj200. Apologies for the mammoth reply!
Jinder Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 Really interesting replies, thanks guys! Rambler, it's interesting to hear a dissenting voice on the AJ. I totally get what you mean by a "P90 sound". I've spent a great deal of my life playing electric so I can totally picture what you mean. I think I need to sit down with various guitars and try them out with both ears and shoulder before I make any decisions. BK777, with regard to the LGs and Bs, I love 'em! I owned a brilliant all-hog B15 a few years ago which I had to sell due to hard times, but that was a remarkable guitar-although it was ladder braced, had the adj. Bridge and '68 pencil neck, the thing absolutely SANG. It had a huge voice, almost piano-like. I miss it to this day. The dealer I'm visiting on Sat also has a couple of '50s LG1s and an LG2 which I'll audition whilst I'm there. I'll know what feels and sounds right when I play it, and I'm in no tearing hurry to do a deal, so when the right one comes by, I'll be sure I'm ready.
BluesKing777 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 BK777, with regard to the LGs and Bs, I love 'em! I owned a brilliant all-hog B15 a few years ago which I had to sell due to hard times, but that was a remarkable guitar-although it was ladder braced, had the adj. Bridge and '68 pencil neck, the thing absolutely SANG. It had a huge voice, almost piano-like. I miss it to this day. The dealer I'm visiting on Sat also has a couple of '50s LG1s and an LG2 which I'll audition whilst I'm there. I'll know what feels and sounds right when I play it, and I'm in no tearing hurry to do a deal, so when the right one comes by, I'll be sure I'm ready. I know it is not in your current search criteria (Wow, I sound like an IT person!), but have you tried a Gibson B25-12 string? In case you don't know, they are a 12 string on a Lg-2 like small body. I bought one from eBay but am still waiting for delivery. I intend using it for blues fingerpicking (bare fingered and fingerpicks), but I think they are versatile enough guitars to suit you playing style. (Well from the small clip I saw from this post). Perhaps the 12 strings could slightly make up for the loss of body from the J200?? Nothing like other playing on YouTube, here is a clip of David Barrett playing one. He must have a great guitar tech, or bleeding fingers! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jrG1HL_f0 BluesKing777.
Jinder Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 I know it is not in your current search criteria (Wow, I sound like an IT person!), but have you tried a Gibson B25-12 string? In case you don't know, they are a 12 string on a Lg-2 like small body. I bought one from eBay but am still waiting for delivery. I intend using it for blues fingerpicking (bare fingered and fingerpicks), but I think they are versatile enough guitars to suit you playing style. (Well from the small clip I saw from this post). Perhaps the 12 strings could slightly make up for the loss of body from the J200?? Nothing like other playing on YouTube, here is a clip of David Barrett playing one. He must have a great guitar tech, or bleeding fingers! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jrG1HL_f0 BluesKing777. BK777, thanks for the vid! Very nice player, I've not come across him before. Oddly enough, the dealer I'm visiting on Sat has a B25-12 in stock, a '67 I think...I'm very interested to try it out now, great to hear an out-of-the-box suggestion like that! I've always wanted a great 12er, but have owned a succession of iffy ones (Takamine G-Series, Vintage, sundry others), although I had a killer Kimbara 12 when I was a teenager-black with red binding, no less!-which played like butter and sounded like civilisations ending. I've always kicked myself for selling it, but ain't that the way sometimes...
BluesKing777 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 BK777, thanks for the vid! Very nice player, I've not come across him before. Oddly enough, the dealer I'm visiting on Sat has a B25-12 in stock, a '67 I think...I'm very interested to try it out now, great to hear an out-of-the-box suggestion like that! I've always wanted a great 12er, but have owned a succession of iffy ones (Takamine G-Series, Vintage, sundry others), although I had a killer Kimbara 12 when I was a teenager-black with red binding, no less!-which played like butter and sounded like civilisations ending. I've always kicked myself for selling it, but ain't that the way sometimes... This dealer is sounding very dangerous! Do some research - as usual Gibson changed the specs daily on the 12 strings - some people swear by the pin bridge, others by the trapeze. It is rumoured that the pin bridge fly off, but a lot of people tune them down 2-3 steps in fear of standard pitch. Small Guild 12 strings are supposed to be very tough if you want standard pitch. BluesKing777.
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