question about....

[hotrod128z]

weight relief and chambering......yes, one of those questions....

 

If I want a non weight relief and non chambered LP, then I am stuck either having to buy a re issue or one made before 1982? Is this correct?

 

 

hotrod

[GibSinCity]

Yes.

 

Credit to R9 for the information.

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/50210-gibson-les-paul-101-a.html

 

"The historic reissues are solid. All historic reissues, be it Standards or Customs, are solid. The exception being the chambered reissues. Chambered reissues are often referred to as Cloud 9 guitars. They are identified by their serial number, which begins with CR..."

[Guest BentonC]

weight relief and chambering......yes, one of those questions....

 

If I want a non weight relief and non chambered LP, then I am stuck either having to buy a re issue or one made before 1982? Is this correct?

 

 

hotrod

 

Just out of curiosity- is there something in particular you don't like about weight relief or chambering (I realize players are very opinionated about the weight relief issue, just curious about your opinion on the matter)

[pippy]

If I want a non weight relief and non chambered LP, then I am stuck either having to buy a re issue or one made before 1982? Is this correct?

 

hotrod

Yes.

 

Have you tried out one of the weight-relieved instruments for yourself? The chambered ones, typically, are normally thought to be a bit brighter-sounding; but the weight-relieved ones......?

 

It's highly doubtful anyone on Earth could tell a solid- from a weight-relieved instrument from listening to the guitar un-amplified. Once amplified that doubt disappears completely.

 

IMHO, of course.

 

I have a pair of each type and, if you live anywhere nearby, you're more than welcome to come around and take the test for yourself.

 

P.

[strat-o-steve]

Don't just base your purchase on the weight relief issue alone. Each type of Les Paul may sound different, but so will each individual guitar ;) I say go and play a few, and find one that sounds good to your ear and feels good in your hands (and on the shoulder LOL). I have a chambered LP and a weight relieved LP. Both sound different, but both also sound like Les Pauls too! I wouldn't trade either one of them for anything in the world! The weight relieved traditional is still quite heavy, and as for the chambered one, it is just about the same weight as my SG. The weight relieved traditional sounds brighter to me than my chambered studio, but that is probably just the difference between the 2 different kinds of pickups used in these models. The ear and feel test is the only way to decide. Never buy a guitar just for the weight (or lack thereof)....consider the item as a whole....you will make a better purchase and be happier down the road, I promise! Besides, buying new gets you the lifetime warranty :D Just sayin......

[AlanH]

Just out of curiosity- is there something in particular you don't like about weight relief or chambering (I realize players are very opinionated about the weight relief issue, just curious about your opinion on the matter)

 

While we have a Gibby customer service representative here I'm similarly curious about Gibson's reasons for chambering or weight relieving.

 

Do you do it to make Les Pauls lighter for some health and safety purpose or is it because when woods aren't handpicked for a custom reissue you find they are often heavier or less resonant and the chambering process helps to address both issues?

 

My LP is chambered and I'm very happy with it - just curious, as you say.

 

Thanks

 

Alan

[pippy]

While we have a Gibby customer service representative here I'm similarly curious about Gibson's reasons for chambering or weight relieving.

 

Do you do it to make Les Pauls lighter for some health and safety purpose or is it because when woods aren't handpicked for a custom reissue you find they are often heavier or less resonant and the chambering process helps to address both issues?

 

My LP is chambered and I'm very happy with it - just curious, as you say.

 

Thanks

 

Alan

As far as the weight-relief process goes, you've pretty much answered your own question.

 

Stocks of the lighter weight mahogany were becoming harder to find and the weight of LPs was becoming a problem in the seventies/early eighties (some Customs have weighed in at almost 15 lbs). Various methods were tried in an attempt to resolve this problem and it was found that by removing some wood - by drilling holes in the body blanks - the finished weight of the guitar could be kept near the 9 lb benchmark with no loss of tone. At first this was done on an ad-hoc basis but eventually the now well-known pattern was adopted for all blanks.

 

In case you haven't seen it yet here is what 'Swiss Cheese' holes look like;

 

It was many, many years after the process had been introduced before anyone in the guitar playing world knew about it and that came about by chance when (according to the legend,at any rate) someone saw his instrument going through an airport x-ray scanner.

 

These days the lightest mahogany - which is more expensive to buy initially - is used exclusively for the re-issues. This is one reason the re-issues cost more to buy.

 

Chambering is something else and I'm not the one to answer that question.

 

Here's a chambered blank;

 

P.

[hotrod128z]

Just out of curiosity- is there something in particular you don't like about weight relief or chambering (I realize players are very opinionated about the weight relief issue, just curious about your opinion on the matter)

 

I am more of a traditionalist I guess you would say(If it didn't have weight relief or chambering in the 50's, 60's or 70's then why do it now?). That type. Also, I know it may sound odd and of course I might be wrong in this thinking but to me a chambered LP is just wacky. I feel as if I wanted a hollow body or a semi hollow body then I would get an ES. I have checked out and considered a few weight relieved models, but for me chambered LP's are out of the question. I understand that some have a great tone and I may be missing out but that is me. I also really like the idea of the old long tenon necks(of course has nothing to do with weight relief or chambering), just saying.

 

 

hotrod

[AlanH]

As far as the weight-relief process goes, you've pretty much answered your own question.

 

 

 

I guess I'm wanting to hear that confirmed from the horse's mouth. The reason for chambering is, as you say, less clear. Hopefully our Gibson representative will come back in to the thread to explain.

[GibSinCity]

Maybe it's so people now have a number of choices when it comes to the Les Paul.

 

You want solid, go with a Historic Reissue.

You also have your choice of Weight-Relief or Chambered.

 

For a long time, a lot of people complained about how heavy Les Pauls were.

I don't understand why the type of people who weren't complaining about the weight then, are complaining now because the type of people who did then, now have nothing to complain about.

 

What's wrong with addressing an issue that for a long time, may have been a deal-breaker when it came to buying a Les Paul?

 

It seems like that's really what it comes down to.

That people are upset that what they believe the Les Paul should be, and should ONLY be, isn't.

It's almost an issue based more on emotion and tradition than anything else.

All weight variations of the Les Paul are available.

What's the problem?

[pippy]

I guess I'm wanting to hear that confirmed from the horse's mouth. The reason for chambering is, as you say, less clear. Hopefully our Gibson representative will come back in to the thread to explain.

Fair enough.

 

Until such time - and just for fun - here are quotes, concerning the weight-relief system, from J. T. Riboloff (who was brought in to head-up work in the Custom Shop); Tim Shaw (who, from '79, was co-head of R&D - initially at Kalamazoo and then at Nashville. It was he more than anyone that was responsible for the introduction of the re-issues proper) and Henry Juszkiewicz (who officially became the president of Gibson in '86);

 

"You can have two pieces of mahogany the same size and one might weigh five pounds; the other twenty-five pounds. The difference is due to the amount of minerals drawn into the wood as it grows, especially silica." J.T.R.

 

"I don't think it (Swiss Chees-ing) made a bit of difference to the sound. The holes were too small to act as resonant cavities." T.S.

 

"It (same) didn't make any difference to the tonal characteristics of the model. The critical part of the body to the sound is the bridge area....The maple top is solid, of course, and a lot of the tonal characteristics come from that. So we were making a better guitar : it was more comfortable, and it still sounded good." H.J.

 

P.

[Angellus]

I am more of a traditionalist I guess you would say(If it didn't have weight relief or chambering in the 50's, 60's or 70's then why do it now?). That type. Also, I know it may sound odd and of course I might be wrong in this thinking but to me a chambered LP is just wacky. I feel as if I wanted a hollow body or a semi hollow body then I would get an ES. I have checked out and considered a few weight relieved models, but for me chambered LP's are out of the question. I understand that some have a great tone and I may be missing out but that is me. I also really like the idea of the old long tenon necks(of course has nothing to do with weight relief or chambering), just saying.

 

 

hotrod

 

ok fair enough, then yes what you want is a historic VOS an R8 R7 or R9 stay away from CR8 as the C stands for chambered.

 

as for the weight relief holes, the word from gibson is that mahogany is more dense today then it was 50-60 years ago so they weight relief the guitars to counteract this.

 

but if you want the long neck tennon then a reissue is definately your avenue.

 

I am ripping out the nashville bridge and putting in an ABR-1 on my trad but as for the long neck tennon there is nothing i can do, however the guitar plays like a dream and the solid steel ABR-1 bridge I am putting in will balance the wound strings with the non wound, provide better resonance and sustain.

 

your reissues come with ABR-1 aready however they are not solid steel.

[BillyGibson]

These are always interesting posts to review this issue and keep it fresh.

 

When I bought my weight relieved Traditional Plus, I compared it to a chambered Standard.

Unplugged, the Standard was definitely more resonant. Not quite semi-hollow, but more

open - and a whole lot lighter. The Standard also had a different neck profile, hardware

and price.

 

In thinking about it, there are actually quite a few LP choices Gibson has provided. Just

have to go play a few and decice what's best for you. Can't go wrong with any of them.