TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 So I just had a 6L6 tube go microphonic on me in my 1966 Fender pro reverb amp. It's a major bummer, because they're the original tubes and I love the sound. I believe the tube to be a blackplate RCA, it's definitely RCA, but as for blackplate, that's what I'm guessing since the tube is original to the amp. My question is do you guys have any opinions on what new tubes are comparable to these original RCA's? I could go the NOS route, but it's so expensive, I'm hoping that some newer tubes would maintain the amp's tonal characteristics without me having to shell out big bucks for the NOS RCAs. I've heard good things about JJ's and groove tubes, but then I've heard pretty much all new tubes are made from the same factories in eastern europe/china and it doesn't matter who you get them from and they are ALL worse than NOS. Maybe NOS is the way to go. I have also been checking out JAN tubes (I think) which are NOS that were built for military use and are bound to be close to the normal NOS's in quality and tone. What do you guys think and does anyone have specific experiences with any of these? Thanks!
rct Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 It depends on what you do with your amp. If you sit in the house comparing every nuance of the creamy upper mid-range punch of your speakers made from Krists robes, you might actually believe you hear a difference. If you take it down to Joes Watering Hole and play Born To Be Wild for the 3,268th time in yer life, you won't notice a thing. Buyer Beware is the most important thing. rct
TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 Well I would say neither of those. I am in a serious band in the hunt for some deals, meantime, recording and putting stuff out independently. So for me a great live sound and a great up close sound for recording is a must.
Jeff-7 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Some will tell you one way and some the other, we do have some "tube snobs" that will give an argument for the former. A lot of it will do with materials and production methods from back then, you've heard the old adage they just don't make them like they used to, right? You can search the internet until the day you die and find arguments for and against. I know a matched quad of EL84 mullards for my AC30hw would run about 500 bucks from what I've seen with quick research. Personally finding a maker with a reputation for quality and consistency should be number 1 priority in selecting tubes, I've always had excellent results with JJs (formerly Tesla) but I will be getting tung sol 12ax7 reissues when I retube, I've heard lots of good things about them. Being in a band struggling to make their mark and gain success I would personally try to save every dime I could.
TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 Yeah, groove tubes are not a first choice by any stretch of the imagination. I personally am not a big fan of the tone coming out of newer Fender RI's and I think a lot of that might be the fact that they're using stock groove tubes. I had a bad experience with JJ's back in the day, I put them in and they didn't work, but I had ordered them specially, and when they came in they were DOA. Ordered from Eurotubes, who were total d-bags, by the way. the guy that owns the place went off on me with a terrible profanity ridden tirade blaming me for his lousy tubes. Anyway, I had heard good things about JJ's before and since so I'm chalking it up to the fact that Eurotubes just sucks. I'm really interested about hearing if anyone has ever heard of or used the JAN NOS tubes...
surfpup Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'd suggest you read some reviews. Here's a start... I've never had a problem with these guys and their reviews are helpful. 6L6 reviews As for JAN - it means "joint army navy" and they were made for military applications (usually by Phillips) The durability is excellent but they don't always have the sweetest tone... though in some instance they do - depends on the tube type it seems. New tubes made by JJ and Tung-SOl brands have been the best for me lately. Though I had good luck with Svetlana 6L6s in an amp I no longer have. Pay attention to bias. You will be re-biasing your amp so some tubes sound a bit better with a warmer or cooler bias.
Jeff-7 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Yeah, groove tubes are not a first choice by any stretch of the imagination. I personally am not a big fan of the tone coming out of newer Fender RI's and I think a lot of that might be the fact that they're using stock groove tubes. I had a bad experience with JJ's back in the day, I put them in and they didn't work, but I had ordered them specially, and when they came in they were DOA. Ordered from Eurotubes, who were total d-bags, by the way. the guy that owns the place went off on me with a terrible profanity ridden tirade blaming me for his lousy tubes. Anyway, I had heard good things about JJ's before and since so I'm chalking it up to the fact that Eurotubes just sucks. I'm really interested about hearing if anyone has ever heard of or used the JAN NOS tubes... I've never used eurotubes, amplifiedparts.com has always worked well for me.
Sinner 13 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I have only one thing to say in reply to this topic. TubeDepot.Com
TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 I'd suggest you read some reviews. Here's a start... I've never had a problem with these guys and their reviews are helpful. 6L6 reviews As for JAN - it means "joint army navy" and they were made for military applications (usually by Phillips) The durability is excellent but they don't always have the sweetest tone... though in some instance they do - depends on the tube type it seems. New tubes made by JJ and Tung-SOl brands have been the best for me lately. Though I had good luck with Svetlana 6L6s in an amp I no longer have. Pay attention to bias. You will be re-biasing your amp so some tubes sound a bit better with a warmer or cooler bias. Great link! Thanks! It looks like TAD 6L6WGC-STR's might be a good choice. I'll ask my tech about these puppies! Anyone with experience on these and for a Pro Reverb, 40 watt amp with 2 6l6's would 30 watt tubes do the trick? thanks!
DiamondJig Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 I don't know if it's possible but you may want to see if you could send in you one existing good tube and have the new set matched to it. Do you know what the amp is currently biased at. Most of the tube stores measure and rate the tubes if you knew what your numbers where you might stand a better chance of getting close to your sound. I do like JJ's they are a very robust tube sound good and last.
Andy R Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 I'm 99.9 percent certain that Groove tubes are just JJ's, Mullards etc... " Matched" and rebranded..... I would just get some new tubes and try some different brands. Check out the reviews and tonal characteristics of what's out and available and give them a try. Then you are not sinking a ton of money into a NOS Tube. If you just don't like the sound you will have some spares in case of an emergency and you will know for sure that the only route to go for you is NOS tubes... I personally think that you can find good sounding new tubes and if biased correctly will sound fine... My .5 Andy
TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 22, 2011 Author Posted November 22, 2011 I'm 99.9 percent certain that Groove tubes are just JJ's, Mullards etc... " Matched" and rebranded..... I would just get some new tubes and try some different brands. Check out the reviews and tonal characteristics of what's out and available and give them a try. Then you are not sinking a ton of money into a NOS Tube. If you just don't like the sound you will have some spares in case of an emergency and you will know for sure that the only route to go for you is NOS tubes... I personally think that you can find good sounding new tubes and if biased correctly will sound fine... My .5 Andy My amp tech, also named Andy, actually, just called me and let me know he has an NOS RCA that matched my RCA so he's dropping it in, but he thinks my caps are funky, so he's going to replace them with spragues, but keep the originals and label their positions just in case I don't like the sound of the new ones. That guy is great!
TinyBabyBrandon Posted November 22, 2011 Author Posted November 22, 2011 My amp tech, also named Andy, actually, just called me and let me know he has an NOS RCA that matched my RCA so he's dropping it in, but he thinks my caps are funky, so he's going to replace them with spragues, but keep the originals and label their positions just in case I don't like the sound of the new ones. That guy is great! I thought I should clarify, only one of my 6l6's was bad, so he had an NOS RCA that matched my good RCA tube. He's also giving it to me for $35 bucks! Scoresville!
Jeff-7 Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 I'm 99.9 percent certain that Groove tubes are just JJ's, Mullards etc... " Matched" and rebranded..... I would just get some new tubes and try some different brands. Check out the reviews and tonal characteristics of what's out and available and give them a try. Then you are not sinking a ton of money into a NOS Tube. If you just don't like the sound you will have some spares in case of an emergency and you will know for sure that the only route to go for you is NOS tubes... I personally think that you can find good sounding new tubes and if biased correctly will sound fine... My .5 Andy Correct, Groove Tubes are just a rebrander, as well as Ruby Tubes last I knew. They source their tubes from various manufacturers like New Sensor, JJ etc. I'm not sure on how high their standards are with the stock they rebrand or if they are truly matched or even all from the same manufacturer for any given set, I had a stock GT go caput within a month in my fender and a stock ruby tube go microphonic in 2 months in my AC30. I thought I should clarify, only one of my 6l6's was bad, so he had an NOS RCA that matched my good RCA tube. He's also giving it to me for $35 bucks! Scoresville! Very nice, glad it worked out well for you. Let us know how the new caps work out.
djroge1 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Great link! Thanks! It looks like TAD 6L6WGC-STR's might be a good choice. I'll ask my tech about these puppies! Anyone with experience on these and for a Pro Reverb, 40 watt amp with 2 6l6's would 30 watt tubes do the trick? thanks! I know you already found some NOS RCAs but to answer your question - I use TAD's in one of my amps. I use them in a Dumble clone amp. I like their sound. I use a NOS in a combo amp I built. Its cheap enough to buy only one.
Andy R Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 My amp tech, also named Andy, actually, just called me and let me know he has an NOS RCA that matched my RCA so he's dropping it in, but he thinks my caps are funky, so he's going to replace them with spragues, but keep the originals and label their positions just in case I don't like the sound of the new ones. That guy is great! Does your tech have a way to measure the tubes? You don't want them to be too mismatched with the original tubes that have been used for a while.... I would listen to the amp with just the tube replaced before replacing the caps ( unless of course they are blown filter or bias caps). If this is not the case just wondering why you are changing caps considering your concern about changing your tone. The caps will definitely change your tone.... ( Maybe better Maybe not ) Andy
Sinner 13 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Great link! Thanks! It looks like TAD 6L6WGC-STR's might be a good choice. I'll ask my tech about these puppies! Anyone with experience on these and for a Pro Reverb, 40 watt amp with 2 6l6's would 30 watt tubes do the trick? thanks! I put 6l6-STR's in my Bassman 135, they are great tubes because they can take the juice. The only downside is they are so super clean I would call them "sterile" which is good for a Bass amp, but not so much for guitar IMHO.
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