New ES-359 Poor Quality Control and Problems

[jamesg]

I just purchased a new ES-359 in Vintage Sunburst finish from Guitar Center three days ago. I own a number of electric and acoustic guitars, but this is my first Gibson. The guitar was fresh out of the box from Gibson and had not been put on the floor yet. They even gave me the shipping box to take home. When I got home I went through all the paperwork. The final inspection checklist from Gibson was in the case, was dated 6-27-11 and had all the items checked. When I was at Guitar Center, I was playing a ton of different guitars to determine what I wanted. Finally at home, I was excited to spend some time with the guitar. Unfortunately, I noticed a number of problems right away:

 

1) There was a black line on the white binding on the neck running from about the 18th fret to the top of the neck. It appears to be a flaw in the finish and might even be from the ink they use to make the fret dots. (It definitely looks like its the same color black). Once I noticed it, I couldn't help but see it all the time as it is on the side of the neck that you look at when you are playing. I hadn't noticed it at the store as it is not a huge line, but it definitely there. If I had noticed it, I wouldn't have bought the guitar. My bad. But how the heck did this thing make it through final inspection?

 

2) The G string goes immediately out of tune as soon as you start playing. From reading other posts, I have learned that this may be a nut bind issue. Whatever the issue, I can't play the guitar until I get it to a luthier and have the problem fixed as I am not comfortable sanding my guitar. Again, how did this guitar make it through final inspection?

 

3) The intonation is off badly and the pickups are of uneven height. I brought this up at Guitar Center and they said it came that way from the factory. If I wanted it fixed, I would have to leave it with their luthier and spend $100 on a set up. I said no thank you, I would take it to my own guy. Still same question: how did this make it through final review?

 

Buying a Custom Shop guitar and spending $3,000 I expected quality manufacturing with attention to detail. Instead I received a sloppily put together guitar with sloppy finish quality. Should I believe as many people told me that Gibson is (and has been for some time) going downhill and focuses on profit over quality , even in their high end guitars? Anyone else had a similar experience? I am likely going to return the guitar and move on to a semi-hollow by another brand, which is a shame as I thought I was going to have a great experience with getting a Gibson.

[Malchik]

I'm not excusing Gibson's QC, but always inspect the instrument at the store! They would have set it up for you before you've finished the transaction if you so requested it.

[jamesg]

The store was busy, it was loud, I was playing a lot of guitars. I inspected the finish and pickups, but didn't pick up on the mark or the nut issue. I asked more than once about a set up and they said no. Regardless, the main point of my post is not my attention to detail, but Gibson's.

[badbluesplayer]

If it was me and I didn't like the guitar, I would return it and make sure the next one was acceptable before leaving the store.

 

The dealer is responsible for making sure the guitar is properly set up and the customer is happy. Guitar Center has a reputation for being the worst Gibson dealer. You got the same treatment at GC that everybody else complains about.

[stein]

I get the frustration. You spend big bucks and you kinda expect it to be good to go. And it isn't.

 

I think there are 2 issues here: Gibson QC and the dealer.

 

As for flaws in the guitar, in a lot of cases it is what it is, because many are so minor that to fix them before leaving the factory would be more expensive than it is worth. But, a flaw is a flaw. I think the idea here is that some flaws matter more to some, and it is a lot easier to sell a guitar with a flaw at a discount. That may be an angle you may want to explore. You can determine how much it is worth to you, and ask for a discount or return the guitar.

 

But as for the set up issues, that is more of a dealer issue. No guitar can arrive from shipping and not need to be checked, and it is up to the dealer to do these minor things. Some dealers do and some don't,because they assume the buyer will do it.

 

But, GC also seems to have issues themselves. Not all GC's are the same. There are good ones and bad ones, depending on who runs the store and the employees.

 

I think for the bad ones, it comes down to lack of training, lack of wisdom, and being just plain stupid. I would think that the right answer to someone who had just bought a 3000$ guitar would be "bring it in and I will make you happy", for such a small amount of work. Telling a guy he has to spend another 100 bucks to make it work? How far can that go?

 

You might consider what is best for you, rather than expecting these guys to step up. You can easily take it back and find a dealer that knows what they are doing and wants your business. Or, you can ask them if they expect you to want to do business with them and what they want to do about it.

[JellyWheat]

Very good answer, stein. Thanks (even though I'm not the OP).

 

Regards,

J/W

B)

[Rich W]

I feel the same way as you jamesg. Gibson Custom Shop builds some incredible guitars and then, just before they are about to ship them, they half-*ss the final inspection/setup step.

 

That's not a popular thing to say on this forum I've noticed. Several people defend Gibson for this by saying their own guitars have always been flawless. And that it's the re-seller who is to blame for things being so far out of whack. But many other companies take pains to inspect and setup their guitars, and they don't let them out the door until this is done. It's a point of pride for them. There's a great article in Tone Quest Report about how obsessed Collings is with making their instruments as perfect as they can get them. Builders of less expensive guitars like Reverend and Prestige also focus on this too. It's not a deal breaker for most people because it's a good idea to get a new guitar professionally setup as a matter of course. But it does make you wonder about their pride of workmanship.

 

 

(1) The black mark is disappointing and I'm not sure how repairable it is, but maybe the other two problems are fixable with a bit of lubricant and a screwdriver.

 

 

(2) The G string issue might be an easy fix. Do you notice a slight "ping" when you press on it on the headstock side of the nut? If so, it's probably the nut slot. Try a lubricant like Nut Sauce. And, when you take it in to get setup next time, have your tech/luthier take a closer look.

 

If the G doesn't ping and it's not the nut, it might be the tuning machines. I replaced them on my 339 with Tone Pros and am happy with the result. In particular, I now have a better gear ratio, the tuning keys are tighter with more stable tuning (especially the G which was the worst), and they have the more traditional color rather than that snot green on 339s. Got them online from WD for something like $60. Seems disappointing to have to start replacing hardware on a new, expensive guitar. But this is an upgrade I'm happy I did.

 

 

(3) Setting the intonation is a simple process. I check and adjust intonation after every string change. If you raise or lower your action, change the gauge of your strings, or even switch from hex to round cores; then you might need to adjust intonation each time. Intonation is not a static factor that can be set at the factory with the expectation that it should never need to be adjusted again. The main issue is whether or not it's even possible set intonation for the action and string gauge that you like. With ABR bridges, you might find that your saddles won't move far enough forward toward the neck to have it intonated for low action (or vice versa). Otherwise, it's not a big deal.

 

Also, I wouldn't be upset about pickup heights not being set up by the factory the way you like them. Just grab a screwdriver and raise or lower them yourself. This is a matter of personal preference, and probably something you should do rather than your tech. I like mine lower but you might want a "hotter" tone and prefer to have them closer to the strings.

 

Good luck. It's an amazing guitar. If you get it set up by a good tech or luthier, I'm sure you'll love it even more.

[charlie brown]

IMHO...Change dealers! That attitude just won't cut it! My dealer, not only makes sure the

guitars they put out, are 1st rate, they will "set it up," and provide new strings, of your

choice, as a common part of their "deal/service," with all their customers. Also, they will

do another set up, within a year of your purchase, should you want, or need one. With the

wild temp and humidity fluctuations, here...that's a nice service, to offer those, who don't

do their own guitar work. It's ALL part of the bargain, at no additional cost. People that

need service, beyond those limitations, get a reduced "cost/rate," if they've purchase the

instrument, from them, as opposed to if they bought it somewhere else. They want you to be

completely satisfied, with your purchase, before you walk out the door. There's also, a 10-14

day trial period, so if there is a problem, you can bring it back. They have, on several occasions,

done work for me, while I waited, even though I didn't expect that...thereby saving me an additional

2-hour trip (each way), later.

 

So, there's really no need, or excuse, for putting up with (that particular) Guitar Center's attitude.

 

Good Luck!

 

CB

[jamesg]

Rich-You hit the nail on the head. Its the lack of attention to detail that I just don't understand. If I could simply go back to the music store and exchange it for another one without the flaw/problems I would. It shouldn't be incumbent on me to fix Gibson's problems or live with poor workmanship. However, as with most higher end guitars, they don't stock very many of the same model and there are no others for me to get at local stores. I appreciate your suggestions.

[BigKahune]

.

 

I'm not sure whether to offer congrats or sympathy for your new 359.

 

 

Unfortunately you've been schooled with a lesson in buying guitars that applies to everything sold - Caveat emptor - - Let the buyer beware. It's best to have some knowledge of the product, the manufacturer, and the seller when making a purchase. As you've found, Gibson QC is lacking to some degree, particularly more so since the flood. That coupled with the well known dubious reputation of GC is a recipe for trouble. A post here for advice before making the purchase might've better prepared you for avoiding this situation. I wish you the best possible results in rectifying the issues with your new 359.

[jamesg]

.

 

I'm not sure whether to offer congrats or sympathy for your new 359.

 

 

Unfortunately you've been schooled with a lesson in buying guitars that applies to everything sold - Caveat emptor - - Let the buyer beware. It's best to have some knowledge of the product, the manufacturer, and the seller when making a purchase. As you've found, Gibson QC is lacking to some degree, particularly more so since the flood. That coupled with the well known dubious reputation of GC is a recipe for trouble. A post here for advice before making the purchase might've better prepared you for avoiding this situation. I wish you the best possible results in rectifying the issues with your new 359.

 

This wasn't a used car, it was a new, high end guitar from a supposed quality manufacturer. I have bought a number of guitars from Guitar Center with no problem. The fit and finish on my $1,800 USA Jackson is superior to the Gibson. Unfortunately, I think the only lesson I have learned is that these days, Gibson Guitar means you are paying for a name, but not necessarily receiving quality workmanship. Reminds me of american cars for the last decade. Ford finally is turning things around. Lets hope Gibson does eventually. Assuming my luthier can resolve my issues, I will likely keep the guitar as the overwhelming opinion of owners of this model is that it is a great guitar. I played it for a little while today (hey a little distortion helped distract me from the G string) and I really loved the tone of the Classic 57s and the semi-hollow body.

[guitarzan55]

I really don't get the problem here. If I'm not mistaken, Guitar Center has a 30-day full money back policy. Right? If this is indeed the case, take this guitar back and get your money back or pick up another Gibson (after you check it carefully, that is).

 

I bought my 339 from Musicians' Friend -- sight unseen. -- First time I ever did that. Glad I did. The Private Reserve of Musicians Friend has top flight, highly professional people who look out for you. They listend to what I wanted in my guitar -- pledged to send me only a "perfect guitar" and they have their luthiers check the set up from Gibson and tweek it to make it perfect.

 

My 339 was set up perfectly. One complaint about Gibson though: the Plek machine apparently isnt perfect. My G and B strings go sharp - indicating the nut isnt just so. But, many luthiers, including the guys at Musician Friend's Private Reserve, all suggested Dr. Bends Nut Sauce. That did the trick. I need to nut sauce it about once every month and half or so -- roughly 2 hours of playing per day.

 

And yes, the Private Reserve guys still will take your calls after you buy your guitar to give you some good, free advice.

 

Side note: Recently I went with my son-in-law to GC to buy a cheap acoustic guitar. I asked the GC guitar salesman the kind of wood in this one particular Yamaha. He didnt know. He read the label and still didnt know what nato wood was. Wow.

 

So run from Guitar Center, unless they really have a perfect guitar -- but try Musicians' friend. And No, I do not work for Musicians' Friend. Good Luck. I can imagine how frustrated you must be.

[charlie brown]

In reality, a good "set up," and (maybe?) going over the side of the fretboard binding,

with very fine steel wool, or even a good (non-silicon) car wax, alone, may remove the

"line" you speak of, if indeed it is paint, and not an actual crack, in the binding material

itself? You might even try some Naptha (lighter fluid, on a rag), to get rid of the "line?"

 

No one, would dispute your frustration, and want, of a perfect guitar...especially,

at "Gibson Prices!" However, going by your description(s), it seems like a fairly simple

"fix," at this point...even though, you shouldn't "have" to do that, in the first place.

 

What irritates me, most, about what you said happened, was what the "clowns" at Guitar Center

told you, regarding "you" needing to pay "them," more...to do something "they" should have done,

to begin with, and as a normal part of their sale! Especially, at GC price points...they are

hardly, "the lowest prices in town," from my past experiences, there. And...IF you're going to

have to pay someone, to set-up your guitar...find a Good Luther, that has no affiliation with GC,

to do the work! He can probably remove the line, too...if you don't want to risk it. And, while he's

at it, have him either widen the string slots in the nut, or replace it, with a "bone," nut.

 

Hope it all works out!

 

CB

[BillyGibson]

James, I remember getting my first (still is and only) Gibson. I was on a search for

an LP My sales person at GC called me when one showed up. It was still fresh in the box,

so I was the first one to touch it after it left the factory. We opened it together

and there was a scuff mark on the lower horn. I was bummed, because I wanted it to be perfect.

My sales person asked what I wanted to do. I asked him if he could knock some $$$ off. He

came back and lowered the price by another $100. I went home and buffed it out. It's now perfect.

 

The other issues are set up issues and every guitar I've had needs a bit of these to some degree.

If you're not comfortable doing these, then definitely find someone who can. (I'm not sure what

your experience level is). It will make playing it much more enjoyable. $100 is excessive for what

you've described. If it needed tweaking, they should have done this for you at time of purchase

 

As CB said, see if the mark is superficial. If you can remove it, then you're set. If not, then

return the guitar. You can order one from GC, MF, Sweetwater, etc... and keep your fingers crossed

it's better than the one you have. Quality does vary and why it's best to play them first if you can.

Spending this kind of money - you should be happy and completely enjoy it.

[bobouz]

I bought my 339 from Musicians' Friend -- sight unseen. -- First time I ever did that. Glad I did. The Private Reserve of Musicians Friend has top flight, highly professional people who look out for you. They listend to what I wanted in my guitar -- pledged to send me only a "perfect guitar" and they have their luthiers check the set up from Gibson and tweek it to make it perfect.

I too had a very good experience with MF's private reserve when purchasing my 330L. There was no way to buy this model first hand in a store, so I took a chance on a used one. The final discount price after a bit of negotiation became a great buy. When it arrived, I expected to see some surface scratches, etc, but there was nothing. One teeny tiny indention the size of a pen-point near the jack. Otherwise, completely mint. The private reserve folks then followed up with email correspondence to assure all was well. Truss rod needed tweaking, as well as a little nut filing, but that's par for the course. Overall it was a pleasant & satisfying purchase.

[Doc Music]

I just got a new 137 Custom from Private Reserve, they don't just trust Gibson QC but take it out look at it, set it up and slack the strings. They extra pad their boxes also. Some of the other mail orders won't look at the guitar and it can be substandard when you get it. - A surprise and not in a good way.

[stein]

I just got a new 137 Custom from Private Reserve, they don't just trust Gibson QC but take it out look at it, set it up and slack the strings. They extra pad their boxes also. Some of the other mail orders won't look at the guitar and it can be substandard when you get it. - A surprise and not in a good way.

That is exactly what a dealer SHOULD do.

 

And if they don't, they have no place being a dealer.

[wonderful remark]

Is it just me? I would expect my $3000 instrument to come out of the box, be tuned and playable right away.

[Doc Music]

With the cold weather you would like the guitar detuned to decrease stress on the neck.

[Danny W.]

Is it just me? I would expect my $3000 instrument to come out of the box, be tuned and playable right away.

 

It's not just you, but it's an unrealistic attitude. Changes in humidity and temperature can cause a guitar to go out of tune, as can the shipping process itself or just having new strings on the guitar. As for setup, what works for you probably won't work for me, so one of us will be adjusting our guitar anyway. I know for a fact that action I set on my guitars is too low for most players and that a perfect factory setup from any manufacturer is unplayable for me.

 

Gibson's attitude about nut slotting is that it's much easier to remove a little more than to put some back on. I'd much rather get one that needs a bit of filing than one that is just a bit too low.

 

Danny W.

[ldweber51]

Greetings, I might be picky but when one pays nearly $2000 for a new guitar it should be nice.

 

ES 339 #1 - I drove 180 miles, round trip, to GC to pickup a new ES 339 in red. When i got to the store, it had a bad spot, 50 cent size, on the back of the body where the stain pooled. It also had several nicks from handling. I did not pruchase it.

 

ES 339 #2 - They offered me a sunburst. The first thing i noticed was the pickguard had nasty 1\2" jagged saw marks about every inch around the outer edge. They took the pickguard off the red one to swap. I deciced to take it home. Then I noticed the other problems. Little cracks (16)on the neck binding where the frets are. The bridge mounting screws were not centered with the pickups & stop bar, which caused the strings to be slightly off. I could not get intonation on the B & high E strings. The spacing just did not look right. Tuner nuts were loose too. I drove 180 miles, round trip, to return it. They ordered a replacement which was shipped to me.

 

ES 339 #3 - It arrived in a Gibson box, but the case was floating around in it. I opened the case & there were small splinters of wood & saw dust everywhere. I could not believe my eyes. First look, they drilled the truss rod hole off so the cover was crooked. The rosewood neck was just terrible. file marks, nasty black patches of what looks like tar. Tried lighter fluid, would not cut it. Looked like a shiny ebony neck. Unplayable, my fingers would get black & the neck would get so sticky, I had to wipe it off every few minutes. I drove 180 miles, round trip, to return it and check out anothe ES 339 at a different GC.

 

ES 339 #4 - This one also had the little cracks (7)on the neck binding where the frets are. On the head stock, they spliced in a section of wood, about 3\4" on the right & left. So the headstock has 3 different shades of stain.

 

I've waited a long time to buy a ES Custom shop guitar. I've never had such bad luck before with any new guitars I have purchases. I don't know if I can try a ES 339 #5... Thanking you in advance, Larry...

 

P.S. I apologize for the length.

[charlie brown]

Again...get another dealer, that checks these things out, before they sell

them! GC and MF are "warehouse" dealers. Some GC's have good management,

and knowledgable staff, that "care!" Most, in my experience, lack both.

They, too often, work on volume of sales, first/foremost. A good dealer,

works on customer satisfaction, above and beyond, thereby courting repeat

and loyal customers, and word of mouth advertising, as another benefit,

as well. From the many, many stories, we've all heard, or read, here and

just from our fellow musicians, the Big Box stores, don't count (that much)

on loyal, repeat, buyers. (Oversimplification, but you get the drift.)

 

If you still want to go with "on-line" dealers, Sweetwater seems to get very, very

high marks, and recommendations. Plus, you see the actual guitar, you're buying.

 

Personally, I prefer my local dealer, to Any big box retailers, given any choice,

at all. I get much better prices, and all the service I would expect, and then some!

 

Good Luck, on #5...IF you choose to go ahead?

 

CB

[BigKahune]

Greetings, I might be picky but when one pays nearly $2000 for a new guitar it should be nice. .....

 

ES 339 #4 - .... On the head stock, they spliced in a section of wood, about 3\4" on the right & left. So the headstock has 3 different shades of stain.

 

 

I agree. No matter who the manufacturer, a proper dealer opens the box/case and examines the guitar when it arrives. If there are issues, they are corrected or the guitar is returned. If the guitar is put into stock, a proper dealer performs a setup. Most of the warehouse dealers do not operate like this. Buyer beware.

 

BTW, all Gibson guitars with "moustache" shaped headstocks (except narrow headstock models like the Melody Maker) have glued on "wings" to make the extra width.

 

. .

[mbaker]

It's not just you, but it's an unrealistic attitude. Changes in humidity and temperature can cause a guitar to go out of tune, as can the shipping process itself or just having new strings on the guitar. As for setup, what works for you probably won't work for me, so one of us will be adjusting our guitar anyway. I know for a fact that action I set on my guitars is too low for most players and that a perfect factory setup from any manufacturer is unplayable for me.

 

Gibson's attitude about nut slotting is that it's much easier to remove a little more than to put some back on. I'd much rather get one that needs a bit of filing than one that is just a bit too low.

 

Danny W.

 

I have to agree, Danny. Generally speaking, I expect to take any guitar I buy, new or used, to my tech for a setup immediately after purchase. You're absolutely right about changes in climate causing changes in the setup - and setup isn't a one-time thing anyway. Even if the setup is perfect when the guitar leaves the factory, it's highly likely it won't be any longer by the time the first owner buys it. I buy most of my guitars from a local shop that does a volume business and has a huge selection. They keep their instruments clean and in good physical condition (including humidity) and they sell for less than the major Internet dealers sell for ($500 less for the ES-335 I just bought, for example). Because they sell so low, they don't keep a tech on staff and don't do much in the way of setups - but that's fine with me, since I'm going to take it to my own tech and get it set up to my specs anyway.

Having said all that, fit and finish flaws are clearly Gibson's responsibility. I didn't buy a Gibson for quite a while because it seemed like every one I looked at had such flaws; however, that seems to have improved in the last couple of years. My new ES-335 definitely needed a setup, but its fit and finish are flawless. It always pays to inspect carefully before purchase.

Mark

[modern image]

gibson definitely has a problem w/quality control. was that way in 2004 when i purchased my johnny a. (all 3 i tried would not retain tuning), there are many examples of this.

just compare qc with rickenbacker qc.