HELP...odd (or maybe not?) guitar behavior

[charlie brown]

Hi All,

 

I've noticed this, for some time now, but never really thought that much

about it. But, decided I'd ask you all, if you'vd had similar experiences,

and what, if anything you did, or can be done, about it.

 

Whenever I leave a guitar on a stand, or in the case, for a length of time,

without playing it...I go through a kind of "ritual" (for lack of a better

term), in that I tune it up, as needed to "concert pitch," and it will,

without doubt, go in and out of tune, slightly, for no reason, seemingly

for hours, maybe even half a day, or longer...THEN it will finally "settle

down," and remain in tune, even with lots of bends, etc. It doesn't matter

which guitar, brand, model, solid body, or semi-hollow. They all do it, to

one extent, or another. I'm really curious, as to "why?" Sometimes, they

will be perfectly in tune, I'll put it down, for even just a few minutes,

and it will be slightly out, again...UNTIL that time, when it finally settles

down, or stops that behavior. It seems very Odd, to me...but, maybe not?

 

CB

[JellyWheat]

Hi All,

 

I've noticed this, for some time now, but never really thought that much

about it. But, decided I'd ask you all, if you'vd had similar experiences,

and what, if anything you did, or can be done, about it.

 

Whenever I leave a guitar on a stand, or in the case, for a length of time,

without playing it...I go through a kind of "ritual" (for lack of a better

term), in that I tune it up, as needed to "concert pitch," and it will,

without doubt, go in and out of tune, slightly, for no reason, seemingly

for hours, maybe even half a day, or longer...THEN it will finally "settle

down," and remain in tune, even with lots of bends, etc. It doesn't matter

which guitar, brand, model, solid body, or semi-hollow. They all do it, to

one extent, or another. I'm really curious, as to "why?" Sometimes, they

will be perfectly in tune, I'll put it down, for even just a few minutes,

and it will be slightly out, again...UNTIL that time, when it finally settles

down, or stops that behavior. It seems very Odd, to me...but, maybe not?

 

CB

 

It depends on the guitar and the player's ears, but I have found that as a guitar is subjected (differentially according to point of contact) to body heat from the player, it will exhibit unstable tuning until thermal stasis has been achieved. Put the instrument down for a break, and it goes out of tune. It is worse, of course, if the room is on the cool side.

 

I don't tune much right after a break. I play half a tune with the volume off and then give 'er a tweak.

 

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

 

Regards,

J/W

B)

[charlie brown]

Thanks, JW...what you say seems reasonable. It's just odd, to me, that

this happens, cool room, or even in the summer time. I thought (and, I'm

still not sure it isn't) it might be humidity as well as temp related, too?

And, oddly, my Ric 12-strings are less prone, than almost any of my other

guitars! I would have thought, the opposite, would be true. ??? LOL

I (at first) thought it was then old "nut" or "tuner" problem, but...it

does, eventually, settle down, so I don't think it's any of those. So,

maybe you're right, or partial so, anyway. In some venues, I seem to have

more problem, that way, than other's, as well. Air-condtioning, heat,

or crowd caused humidity??? Who knows?

 

Very strange...

 

CB

[daveinspain]

Sounds reasonable to me....

[Silenced Fred]

i always chalked it up to the strings and body and neck settling in with the different tensions, change one string, you kinda change em all

[JellyWheat]

I think there is something to Fred's point, as well as to the possible effect of humidity. Fred highlights a too-often-ignored point: the guitar is a complex, dynamic thing. Change one thing, as he points out, and you change them all.

 

I just put in my $0.02 worth because I have found temperature changes cause the largest proportional shifts in tuning, compared to the other factors mentioned.

 

J/W

B)

 

[i find a liberal coating of seal blubber on the fingerboard mitigates many of these adverse effects, as well as darkening the wood considerably!]

[guitar dog]

Guitars are living things with a sense of humor. I think they do some of the things they do just to f*** with us.

[charlie brown]

i always chalked it up to the strings and body and neck settling in with the different tensions, change one string, you kinda change em all

 

Yeah, thanks Fred...I think that's true, too...at least initially. But, when it lasts

longer than I would have thought the string tuning issue would have caused, I have to

wonder "what else" is going on, as well. Probably a combination, of all those?

 

CB

[CaptainNemo68]

I think if a guitar keeps going out of tune, it means the guitar wants to be left alone quietly in its guitar case. If it stays in tune no matter what you do to it or how you play it, then the guitar wants to be used, abused, and worked over

[Silenced Fred]

Yeah, thanks Fred...I think that's true, too...at least initially. But, when it lasts

longer than I would have thought the string tuning issue would have caused, I have to

wonder "what else" is going on, as well. Probably a combination, of all those?

 

CB

 

I would say its definitely a combination. When I sit down and think about all of the forces acting on a guitar, it scares me to hold one in my hands, they should probably all explode in our hands.

 

I don't think I'll understand all what's going on, so I just blame it on these guys

 

[charlie brown]

Well, they all DO (eventually) settle down, and stay in tune, save maybe

after some unusually severe string bending. But, even they, they will be

more in tune, than duing the "ritual" period. LOL

 

CB

[BigKahune]

It depends on the guitar and the player's ears, but I have found that as a guitar is subjected (differentially according to point of contact) to body heat from the player, it will exhibit unstable tuning until thermal stasis has been achieved. Put the instrument down for a break, and it goes out of tune. It is worse, of course, if the room is on the cool side. .....

 

I agree with JW and consider it normal behavior.

 

It can be difficult to deal with - coming back from a break at a gig. Casing the guitar during the break can help minimize the cool down.

 

Picking up a "cold" guitar at home, I always play a bit and give the guitar time to "warm up" to my body's temp effect. Once it's "warmed up" to me, then if the tuning needs a tweak I'll adjust it.

[charlie brown]

Perfect example: I got out my beloved '64 Fender Strat, noodled around on it,

tuned it up, noodled some more, retuned...for an hour or more. It finally

settled down, and I played it, a lot, yesterday! (What a "Strat Tone" monster, it is!)

Then, I left it overnight, leaning against the sofa, picked it up this morning,

fully expecting to have to re-tune again...and it was "perfect!" Played it, pretty

robustly, with lots of "blues bending," etc...it's still in tune!! LOL I'm glad,

obviously...but, it's puzzling. The room temp is pretty constant, though...

in or out of the case. So, it's not like any of them are stored in a different

environment, that I play them in, at least here, at the house. Wilder temp, and

humidity fluctuations, and I'd not be surprised, by any of this, at all.

 

Anyway, thanks, for all the input/suggestions...keep 'em coming!

 

CB

[surfpup]

Probably not the luthier-approved approach, but whenever one of mine has been sitting a bit I give the back of the neck a few good whacks with the heel of my hand. Shows it who's boss and releases any stored "tension" in the wood that may have built up over time due to temp and humidity changes (my theory anyway).

[charlie brown]

Probably not the luthier-approved approach, but whenever one of mine has been sitting a bit I give the back of the neck a few good whacks with the heel of my hand. Shows it who's boss and releases any stored "tension" in the wood that may have built up over time due to temp and humidity changes (my theory anyway).

 

Well actually, I've seen other's do that, or mildly "flex" the neck, sometimes,

prior to tuning, for a gig. So...you may be onto something, there? :)

 

CB

[Bender 4 Life]

Well actually, I've seen other's do that, or mildly "flex" the neck, sometimes,

prior to tuning, for a gig. So...you may be onto something, there? :)

 

CB

 

i warm a neck by rubbing it vigorously w/my palm.....flex it a bit.....then play.

[Lungimsam]

My Fender basses stay in tune like a rock.

 

However; one time this phenomenon you describe happened to me. I left my bass overnight in a hall, and the next day it was flat. Either someone messed with it while I was gone, or it acclimated to the room while I was gone.

 

This has never happened to me before. Even when I have left the basses in the trunk on hot or cold days. Even overnight. They always played in tune fine after. Just that one time as far as I can remember. Wierd.

[JellyWheat]

Believe this or not.... I pulled out mt oldest Strat 2 weeks ago to play in church (ash body, Birdseye maple neck). It had not seen the light of day in 3+ months.

 

Not only was it in perfect tune with itself, it had maintained A-440 pitch. It has always been rock solid like that.

 

I also believe a "neck slap" works for some guitars, the truss rods of which bind inside the neck channel. (This technique is no longer recommended for use on wimmins!)

 

My further 2. cents worth

J/W

[Andy R]

While I agree with whole temperature and humidity aspects it sounds to me like there is more here than meets the ear... I Live in Indiana and the weather is all over the place. Most of the time my guitars are out... On a stand, laying on a couch, hanging on a wall and some are actually in cases... I don't have any "Humidity control" I use area heating so the rooms get pretty cold and warm etc... but I don't have much problems with tuning....

 

Obviously with new strings It takes a bit to get them stretched out but once they are they seem very stable. Do you loosen the strings when you put your guitars in the case? Use the same brand of strings on everything??

 

I had a batch of D'Addarios that wouldn't stay in tune worth a damn ( that's all I ever pretty much use) I finally checked them out with a magnifying glass and noticed the wrapped strings had some funky winds through out the length of the string...

 

Just sounds more like a slipping and stretching issue to me...

 

How many wraps around the tuning keys are you using?

 

Andy

[charlie brown]

All good insights, and ideas. I'm (still) tending to lean toward "humidity"

being the more prominent factor, long term. Anyway, I'll just "put up with it,"

as there's precious little else I Can do! LOL

 

CB

[JellyWheat]

I've experienced similar things, but I never considered it abnormal. Stringed instruments are just goofy.

 

Are they goofy, or just "mishugina"?

 

J/W

[JellyWheat]

You're trying WAY too hard, JW. In fact, you're very trying...... (Grinning)

 

I'm sorry. It seemed funny at the time...

 

J/W

[krock]

Guitars are living things with a sense of humor. I think they do some of the things they do just to f*** with us.

 

Funny you should mention that, lots of people I know, myself included name their guitars