Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I recently posted a discussion regarding ideas on how to protect the back of a nitro' finished guitar that some of you may have read. I got a Gibson without a case, And i can't get that even tanned look on my face..... Pete Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Wow... its getting more interesting/bizarre over there quote "My primary gripe with Gibson is that they're selling $400 guitars (quality-wise) for $5000" This site is for Luthiers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 they're really helpful people huh? maybe try logging in with a different name and asking same question about the new 'martin' that you are waiting on or u could just post a big eff off to them all and not go back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I don' know anymore......haha (it's getting to me) the more I'm reading on the web about Gibson.... I am getting a little worried. Think i should stop reading ... get my new Bird and just play it! I'm glad I found this forum because if I started reading all the stuff before ordering the 'Bird and ,buying the first one, I would definitely had second thoughts. Like i said though.... all in all; and after all... I want a GIBSON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 You are really busy stirring the pot, aren't you Zeppelin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Jerry I am in no means trying to stir any pot. I don't mean to cause any consternation or bad feelings here...At all. I just thought I'd post what I did. As you know I'm pretty new here..and new to Gibson. I love this forum.. I have learnt so much here. Sorry if i'm using bad etiquette here, by my posts? I hope not. I was just interested in what people here thought, seeing as there has been a few posts regarding same type of comments recently. Maybe i should delete the post? I suppose its not very constructive on the Gibson forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 To put a different spin on it, here are the words of my luthier (a builder of amazing instruments, highly regarded repairman and a former member of an extremely successful band, who I won't drop the name of) "In my opinion, the only company out there making guitars with both tone, build and finishing quality that all qualifies as 'pro-level' is Gibson. If I was shopping at that level, they're the only brand I would consider". Just goes to show, opinions differ wildly. I rely on my guitars for 150-250 shows a year and loads of session work, writing and recording on my records and other people's. If I didn't think Gibsons were up to the job, I'd play something else, but I've been playing Gibsons for 12yrs and don't have any plans to change brand allegiance. You're right in saying you should just grab your Bird and play it, own it and discover its potential. All the bluster at that luthier's site (and even what I'm writing!) Is all just internet chitchat, which is all irrelevant once you've got YOUR guitar in YOUR hands, hearing YOUR playing with YOUR ears. Disregard the rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA83 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Just remember - people are always more likely to voice a negative opinion than a positive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I like Gibsons. I also think its fine to stir things up a bit if some interesting info or debate comes out of it. I also like chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I don't think we should be airing in this forum the negative opinions from another. This thread should be deleted. EDIT: Let me clarify. Yes, it's a good thing to gather information from a variety of sources when making decisions and forming opinions of something, in this case a Gibson guitar. I don't think it's a good idea to pit conflicting opinions against one another in this fashion. Take all opinions, good and bad, and decide for yourself what is right for your circumstance. I don't believe posting negativity from another forum here accomplishes anything. This kind of weighing of different opinions should, I believe, be done within yourself. Decide what's valid and what's not for yourself. We really don't need to listen to more Gibson bashing here, do we? Hasn't this been done before to no good end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 i think its a good thing, if someone had been scouring the net to get info on what guitar they should get then its good to see the negativity in this context . might make someone aware of the bad press that is out there in cyberspace but amongst comments that have the pro gibson side of the arguement alongside them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think people have the right to like or not like any guitar or guitar brand. If their statements make sense to you, (one way or the other), then digest them and buy/play the guitars you like and stay away from those you don't. People put down things for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Just as the net is a great way to get lots of information, it is also a good way to get lots of rumors and misinformation. In fact, it is a lot easier. Much of what I read is someone repeating something, rather than from the horse's mouth. And like real life, you have to qualify the source. It is a lot easier online to get someone who genuinely SEEMS qualified and experienced and have them not be. For example, JINDER has conveyed his actual experience, and what his luthier/repair guy has said. You may not know either of them, so you may or may not trust the info, but it is a least more helpful than "they say" kind of info. In contrast, I find the thread you linked to be a good example of BS, and a couple things qualify that. First, you didn't ask about a comment on quality, you asked how to protect a finish and what would be safe and useful. That was never addressed, and instead you got comments on quality. Next up, he gave you quality comments on a 335 when you are asking about a HB. Both Gibson, but made at 2 different factories in different states by different poeple. As a luthier, someone using his own hands to work, you would think that means something to him. And, it seems odd a luthier would refer to anything hand built as being a "400$" guitar. Obviously there is some anger or hate behind that statement. So, in other words, that whole thread is nothing but misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Just as the net is a great way to get lots of information, it is also a good way to get lots of rumors and misinformation. In fact, it is a lot easier. Much of what I read is someone repeating something, rather than from the horse's mouth. And like real life, you have to qualify the source. It is a lot easier online to get someone who genuinely SEEMS qualified and experienced and have them not be. For example, JINDER has conveyed his actual experience, and what his luthier/repair guy has said. You may not know either of them, so you may or may not trust the info, but it is a least more helpful than "they say" kind of info. In contrast, I find the thread you linked to be a good example of BS, and a couple things qualify that. First, you didn't ask about a comment on quality, you asked how to protect a finish and what would be safe and useful. That was never addressed, and instead you got comments on quality. Next up, he gave you quality comments on a 335 when you are asking about a HB. Both Gibson, but made at 2 different factories in different states by different poeple. As a luthier, someone using his own hands to work, you would think that means something to him. And, it seems odd a luthier would refer to anything hand built as being a "400$" guitar. Obviously there is some anger or hate behind that statement. So, in other words, that whole thread is nothing but misinformation. You said it so much better than I could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 A few times in the last few days I've seen the following statement "Gibson sell every guitar they're making currently" - I think that adds the real meat on the plate to this situation. If I was selling every guitar my factory could make for thousands of dollars a piece, I don't think I'd be too worried about a few gripes on forums and some thinly veiled political attacks. One might argue many points on any of the big three, just as easily argue many points on the top 4-5 boutique builders too... I gigged last night, I took the keb Mo and the Woody Guthrie with me, the other band playing were all round ooh'ing and ah'ing over my two guitars. We have to remember that 'haters gotta hate' ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madman_Greg Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 please disregard replied to wrong post correct reply added below to correct post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madman_Greg Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 they're really helpful people huh? maybe try logging in with a different name and asking same question about the new 'martin' that you are waiting on or u could just post a big eff off to them all and not go back Mods will be able to the IP address of the userid and correlate, so all I am saying is public computers are best for some sorts of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 A lot of things that I have heard that are bad about Gibson have been subjective. I think they are entitled to their own opinion. The part about the substandard lacquer is a new one to me. Can anyone shed some light on that? I guess I have heard about them changing the formula in the past couple of years to make it more durable, but I don't have any evidence to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 A lot of things that I have heard that are bad about Gibson have been subjective. I think they are entitled to their own opinion. The part about the substandard lacquer is a new one to me. Can anyone shed some light on that? I guess I have heard about them changing the formula in the past couple of years to make it more durable, but I don't have any evidence to back that up. I know that as a vehicle OEM, (Original Equipment Manufacturer), paint formulas get changed by the EPA on a reqular basis, (last time was 2010...will change again in 2013). Not only paint, but the formulas for bumpers, etc. change at the same time by the EPA. I can't imagine the formulas for lacquers don't change for Gibson too. Additional information.... EOM's can't use the same paint a body shop uses, (it's based on the amount of paint a company buys per year..... we buy several millions of dollars of paint each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 If you read enough of Ford's website, Frets.com, you will learn he USED to be a Gibson dealer. Most, if not all, of these small shop, Gibson dealerships, had their dealerships pulled or just gave them up. I had a former dealer in Illinois tell me that the big G came in and demanded 51% of the store's wall space be filled with Gibsons. He could not afford to carry that much inventory, so gave up the dealership. Not sure if that is what Happened in Ford's case. I think Ford was a bit miffed about the dealership loss. He does, sometimes, mention he had some differences of opinion over warranty work with some Gibsons, but doesn't on his site, blatantly bash Gibsons in general. If you get a bunch of luthiers, guys making high end custom guitars, together, I'm sure they will very quickly begin to bash the big boys. After all, they have to justify the price they get for custom made guitars. And, bashing the quality of high volume, factory made... anything is an easy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 You've already pointed out before that you yourself have experienced a fairly major quality issue with a Gibson acoustic — it happens. Perhaps more importantly, you've also made it pretty clear that you really want a Gibson. I'd say hang in there until you get what you want. That's what will make you happiest when all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I figure that if people are stupid enough or intellectually immature enough to believe or let themselves get all worked-up over bashing on the internet, then it is their problem. If you don't like Gibsons, don't buy one. I like Gibsons and I like Martins. Couldn't care less if some luthier bashes either one of them. It's part of doing business. As someone stated earlier, they have to justify their very expensive guitars. Gibson has always been the "whipping boy" of these people and the internet crybabies. Any problem that Gibson "might" have is exaggerated into a tragedy on the internet.......So, if you don't like a particular guitar, don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I figure that if people are stupid enough or intellectually immature enough to believe or let themselves get all worked-up over bashing on the internet, then it is their problem. My my.... what can i say? I'm watching this thread with interest and some trepidation. I really don't want to add anything negative here, that is/was not my intention. I considered pulling the thread, but will leave it for 24 hours and make a comment on maybe what i have found... if anyone cares. actually getting a few constructive comments from the other site now. So.... regards Emmett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I figure that if people are stupid enough or intellectually immature enough to believe or let themselves get all worked-up over bashing on the internet, then it is their problem. If you don't like Gibsons, don't buy one. I like Gibsons and I like Martins. Couldn't care less if some luthier bashes either one of them. It's part of doing business. As someone stated earlier, they have to justify their very expensive guitars. Gibson has always been the "whipping boy" of these people and the internet crybabies. Any problem that Gibson "might" have is exaggerated into a tragedy on the internet.......So, if you don't like a particular guitar, don't buy it. Another question raised? Just because someone is a luthier, and even if he makes a living at it, does not automatically qualify him as an expert on Gibson OR Martin guitars. In fact, I might even ask how hard would it be to find one that is also well educated or informed about vintage guitars? One of the qualifiers to me that would make me tend to trust the opinion of a guitar maker or repairman regarding Gibson's (or Martin's, or vintage guitars) is if he is a FAN of them. If he isn't, OR doesn't seem to know very much about them, I would think chances of him being qualified to have a meaningful comment RELEVANT to the subject pretty slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think people have the right to like or not like any guitar or guitar brand. If their statements make sense to you, (one way or the other), then digest them and buy/play the guitars you like and stay away from those you don't. People put down things for different reasons. Politically we rarely agree, but I'm 100% with you on this one! Stay open minded, take in the information, and then make your decisions. People do indeed put things down for a multitude of reasons, and there's really no way to know how they got to their present position. Re Gibson bashing, I will say this: Back around 2001, I used to post regularly on the AGF. Gibson Montana was cranking out some incredibly nice instruments, but very few people wanted to hear it & had their preconceived notions firmly in place. One particularly bloated individual back then was a fairly well known luthier in California. Move forward ten years, and you'll pretty much hear the same stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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