myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.com/All-original-1969-Gibson-Les-Paul-Custom_W0QQitemZ150305224889QQihZ005QQcategoryZ118985QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 59, or 69? with a real paf? man i wish i had a couple grand right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:oilpit: Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I don't believe a real vintage Paul would be that cheap. But if it is....wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 "On 21-Oct-08 at 23:12:11 EDT, seller added the following information: I wrote "it is a Real 1959 Gibson Les paul" but you should read " it is a Real 1969 Gibson Les paul" sorry for the misspeled. but ebay don't allow me to change it. again, i'm sorry for that." It's a '69. Put your drool napkins away; old does not necessarily equal awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Shipping to the US for $450.00. Looks like that guitar will be staying in Canada. Still pretty cool... I wouldn't mind having a 69 in my guitar stable, unless their was something particularly wrong with that year. It has 5 days to go yet so it could jump up. too bad I don't have the cash. If I did maybe the guy would meet me in Windsor so I could save 450 bucks. Fun to watch anyway HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 It's still a very good price for a 1969... That was the first year Gibson brought back the Les Paul model after it had been discontinued.... If its all original with no issues Its a great opportunity! But there are a few days left in the auction and I'm sure the price is going to go way up... The only thing that bothers me is that it has Patent applied for (PAF) stickers on the pick ups and I thought they were already putting the Patent Number Stickers on the pick ups by 1969... Anyone think different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Ok.. Now I have to ask the question that might just get me tarred and feathered and bannished from the site If I like vintage guitar's, which i do, why would a 59 be so much better than a 69.. such that I might consider paying ten's of thousands rather than say maybe 3 thou for a 69? Please don't hit me.. I've only been in to this les paul disease for a month or so.. Is it because it's basically untouchable? Or is it really that much better than the vintage 69 (and other vintage years)? If so why? Is there something that makes it truly unique? Thanks HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_HEWC Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gibson change ownership in like '65 or '68 or something until it's present owners who took over in the late eighties. If this is true, then perhaps that is one of the reasons why a '59 is way more expensive than a '69. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Ok... What it is, is.... In 1959 the Les Paul had a couple of changes, larger frets, better woods and a few of the major Rock stars started playing them... There were only so many made, for back then it was alot but by todays standards it would be considered a limited run.... So all of the sudden you have guys like Jimmy Page, Joe Perry, Jeff Beck and later Slash and their like all wanting and all playing 1959 Les Pauls. They had nice flame tops, a perfect weight, feel and sound and became know as the ultimate, perfect Les Paul or Holy Grail. A real 1959 Les PauL will cost anywhere from 300,000 to half a million dollars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hmmmm.....No pictures of the headstock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 hbpatter... the unit is on the island in Montreal.. don't think the guy is going to drive 9 hrs to deliver a guitar to Windsor for you and then back (18hr round trip). A lot of the fake 'shipped straight from China factory "real" LP's' are sold from Montreal on ebay from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 A few questions and points spring to mind; If We Want To Dream It's A 1959!!!!!!! What's the serial number? Can we see the headstock width, please? Why does it have PAFs?; '57-'61 PAF, '61-'65 Pat No., '65-'72(???) T-Tops. Machines swapped, obviously, but those are later '60 Mirror knobs; therefore, although it looks regular Cherry s/b, if the knobs are original it should be the fade-resistant Tangerineburst. It would be nice to see if the ABR-1 has a retaining spring. Nice, also, to see if it has Sprague 'Black Beauties'. Visually it does, indeed, look like a real '59; tuners, switch-tip [probably] and knobs excepted. BUT, more realistically; As the ad clearly states that it is a '69...... After it was discontinued in 1960 this shape of Les Paul Standard didn't reappear until 1974 therfore it cannot be a 1969 Standard. However, the contoured top came back in '66 and was called the Les Paul Special until '69 when it was re-named the DeLuxe. My best guess, FWIW, is that it could be a DeLuxe with PAFs fitted ??? In '69 or thereabouts original PAFs must have been relatively cheap to retro-fit . The only problem with that is the pickup routing looks original, but then again I haven't seen a pup-less DeLuxe; perhaps those Mini-buckers in the secondary cream surrounds have a standard pup cavity - Anyone out there who can help????? The finish checking looks even better than Mr Murphy himself can manage! Anyhow : I, for one, am keeping an eye on the auction............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 yes pippy thoose are alot of the things i was thinking myself! anyone wanna front me 3 grand? im good for paying it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Jessenoah, I'd happily lend you 3 grand on the sole condition that you let me use the guitar whenever I wanted! If, however, we are correct-ish in our guess it will go for alot more than that : from what I can see, two genuine PAFs on their own would be worth 5,000........ Still, Last Bids at the ready!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I' be curious if it has a long neck tenon or not (a wider cropped picture of the open neck pickup rout would help); I believe they changed to a transitional length tenon early '69 then went to the short one. A long or transitional tenon would put her back to that age. I have a neighbor with a '69 Custom that, at least now, has a PAF in the neck position and a T-top in the bridge position (and a long tenon); anybody's guess if somebody helped her out with a PAF somewhere in the early seventies before there were fake PAF's. Maybe the same with this one. Interesting point about no "Standards" in '69 - they did Customs and the Mini-humbucker (to fit routing for a P-90 as the story goes) Deluxes, but I thought they did sell good ole burst standards in '69? [guess not - see below] If it was a Deluxe and the top was routed to fit humbuckers, you'd see freshly cut wood in the edges of the pickup cavity - again photos would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 As far as I've been able to ascertain even when the 'Standard' was re-introduced in'74 it wasn't available in Cherry s/b, only Tobacco burst, wine red etc. The DeLuxe, as per Messrs Gorham and Robertson, was available in CSB and also came with the mirror knobs... I e-mailed the seller and the serial No. is 542899. If anyone has the inclination......... Whatever; even if it's "only" a '69 DeLuxe (with original '57-'61 PAFs) I might just consider having her in the house! Good luck everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Ok... What it is' date=' is.... In 1959 the Les Paul had a couple of changes, larger frets, better woods and a few of the major Rock stars started playing them... There were only so many made, for back then it was alot but by todays standards it would be considered a limited run.... So all of the sudden you have guys like Jimmy Page, Joe Perry, Jeff Beck and later Slash and their like all wanting and all playing 1959 Les Pauls. They had nice flame tops, a perfect weight, feel and sound and became know as the ultimate, perfect Les Paul or Holy Grail. A real 1959 Les PauL will cost anywhere from 300,000 to half a million dollars....[/quote'] Good description and answer to my question. Thanks Dave. HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbpatter83 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 hbpatter... the unit is on the island in Montreal.. don't think the guy is going to drive 9 hrs to deliver a guitar to Windsor for you and then back (18hr round trip).A lot of the fake 'shipped straight from China factory "real" LP's' are sold from Montreal on ebay from what I've seen. Eracer_Team. Next time I'll be sure to use the smiley face. I thought it was obvious "tongue-in-cheeck" writing since I can't front the money anyway. I may go to Windsor to hit the Casino but that's about it...Love the city though! I've heard that lately about Montreal being sort of the clearing house for the fakes. Different law's there? Thanks HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 As far as I've been able to ascertain even when the 'Standard' was re-introduced in'74 it wasn't available in Cherry s/b' date=' only Tobacco burst, wine red etc. The DeLuxe, as per Messrs Gorham and Robertson, [i']was[/i] available in CSB and also came with the mirror knobs... I e-mailed the seller and the serial No. is 542899. If anyone has the inclination......... Whatever; even if it's "only" a '69 DeLuxe (with original '57-'61 PAFs) I might just consider having her in the house! Good luck everyone. Wouldn't that # put it made in 59? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'd beware... No "as seller" feedback, and very little feed back as buyer. Look at the other item that's for he has for sell. From my previous experience on ebay. I'd stay the hell away. However if you have a few bucks laying around, go for it. My 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Wouldn't that # put it made in 59? no, a 59 would be a 5 digit number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 like 9 (the year), then whatever production number 9 xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 To be really pedantic... Although every '59 I've seen/heard of is 9 XXXX, in theory the space between the 9 and the first X was reserved for a digit in case more than 9999 guitars were produced in the year. This happened for certain in 1960 when some sunburst(s?) had numbers 0XXXXX. One was up for sale at Gruhn's the last time I had a look and he should know a fake from the real thing. If I get a bit of time for myself and am not tempted to pick up the guitar I'll check on the (usually excellent) Gibson serial number finder. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Ok... What it is' date=' is.... In 1959 the Les Paul had a couple of changes, larger frets, better woods and a few of the major Rock stars started playing them... There were only so many made, for back then it was alot but by todays standards it would be considered a limited run....[/quote'] Specifically there were 643 Les Paul Standards shipped in 1959. This however, still doesn't fully explain their mythical appeal since fewer were made in both 1958 (434 shipped) and 1960 (635 shipped). Additionally in each of those years there were fewer Customs made! (256, 246, and 189 respectively). If it were only production numbers that created value, it stands to reason the 1960 Custom would be the most valuable LP of that era, doesn't it? Which brings us back to the other factors mentioned by Dave above - materials and celebrity. Of the two I imagine celebrity carries the most weight. Interestingly the celebrity interest in the '59 burst started in the mid/late 60's if I am not mistaken. Which means there was about ten years where we could've had them quite cheaply! (If only I had know this when I was 5 years old!) For comparison, in 1969 Gibson shipped 2751 Les Paul Standards (this is according to American Guitars by Tom Wheeler - I guess they must have been Deluxes though? His book only lists LPs as Deluxes starting in 1971) A final thought... if that guitar is a '69 the pickup routes look awfully like original factory routes. Weren't the Deluxes routed smaller for the Minis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Sorry for any confusion I may have caused so far but having done a bit more research; "All solids built in 1959 with the exception of some of the double cutaway Les Paul Specials and Juniors with the non-SG style bodies are numbered '9 XXXX'. Many of the Les Paul Specials and Juniors......six digit number starting '9XXXXX'." For this correction my thanks are due to Ian C. Bishop's book 'The Gibson guitar from 1950 volume 1 (1977)'. The serial number supplied to me by the seller (mentioned in a previous insert) firmly dates the instrument in the ad to the middle of 1966. This in turn means the guitar is from the first year of the re-introduction of the contoured top Les Paul when it was designated the Les Paul Special. It would have originally been fitted with "...two cream covered single coil pickups. It was available in Gold or Cherry sunburst." (ibid). This seems to corroborate the 'swapped pickups' theory perfectly. Any further corrections are, I suspect, possible..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Interesting, Bishop's book says there were Les Pauls in 1966?? Tony Bacon's book describes how Bruce Bolen came to work at Gibson in 1967, and after that they met with Les Paul again to sign a new contract, and the prototype reissue les paul came out in late 1967, then production was announced at the June 1968 NAMM show (a gold top with P90's and a black Custom with a P-90 and a single coil Alnico pickup in the neck position). The Deluxe came out in 69 with mini humbuckers made to fit the pattern routing intended for P90's (as the story goes). The Standard was available as special order at least as of 1974 and wasn't part of the official catalog until 1976. Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars also places the reappearance of the Les Paul in 1968. He also describes the Deluxe with "optional full sized humbucking pickups" '72 to '76. So really it's not likely that this guitar was made in 1966. The serial number information is simply not perfect. Some construction details might help to date it better: Is there a pancake stripe in the body (mahogany/maple/mahogany visible either from the edge of the guitar or inside any of the cavities)? Is there a long tenon or transitional tenon (visible in the neck pickup cavity)? Is the binding in the cutaway thin or thick (does it flare out to follow the carved top revealing a strip of maple or does it get really wide and stay in a straight line following the mahogany-maple joint)? There are experts here (I'm not among them) and on the mylespaul forum who can really help pinpoint dating based on these features. I think it's likely that it was a special order, possibly factory modified, with humbucking pickups, and it isn't going to fit into any of the categories we expected (68 Custom, Deluxe, Standard, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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