BluesKing777 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 BluesKing777 has been playing with recorders since a friends' reel to reel was purchased back in the dawn of time. I was first in line to grab a Tascam Portastudio tape when they came out, and much, much later - the Tascam Porta-something digital. I have an iMac dedicated to recording with cubase and condenser mics and stuff, but I don't always want to sit at a computer, as I do that all week! I really enjoy recording to my Zoom H2 for that reason. It does a very good job, but it is entry level with a few clanky bits, but records well. Do any of you Gibson afficianados have a higher quality unit with the 96/24 capabilities, flash card etc, and preferably a larger screen so BK777 can see the files and what the machine is telling me! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Zoom H4n its great imo does 4 track and does it well. Although it still has a small screen. I have that and also a 2488neo as I too do not like recording via a mouse....but thats just me. Zoom H4n have fun by all means! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I've been very happy with my Sony PCM-D50 and would highly recommend it. Sony also released the PCM-M10 later on that sounds like even more bang for the buck. There are definitely a lot of other options out there as well. I found B&H Photo out of NYC to be a great place to purchase such devices, for both pricing and service. Here's a good resource for more information on field recorders: WingfieldAudio.com. Good luck with the search! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Thanks. I should have mentioned that I had read the previous threads, and particularly Guth's thread with the link to Wingfield Audio - that was the start of the rot. I was pretty keen on the sound of the more upmarket Marantz PMD661, and the Sony looked ok, but It is hard to say how old these reviews are - no time/dates anywhere - and I was hoping a few of the Gibson guitarists had something like it and came out with glowing reviews! I am slightly wary of Sony as I have a Sony Bloggie video recorder and while the recordings are great, the software is pretty strange. I had to go and buy something else to produce the videos. The Zoom H2 records very well - especially for what it is - but it has a few annoying bits like the sd card door and the small readout. I have also lost a few files not being read to the card properly, and also looked up at the end of a recording to see the H2 never started recording because i had not pressed the Record button hard enough. There is also a bit of hiss on the recordings. I have had the unit a fair while, so I was hoping to upgrade - there's the word! I suppose I am looking for the 'portable recorder for the man that has all the portable recorders" if there is such a thing. It is not urgent - just something I was looking into. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch47 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 BK, I recently purchased a TASCAM DR-07 Mark II for $115.00 plus a $20.00 mail in rebate (good through the holidays). Rather novice here, but I'm impressed thus far with the capabilities. Pictured/described here: http://tascam.com/product/dr-07mk2/specifications/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hey BluesKing, Wish I had more details to share regarding other recorders. I did some research of my own, but I based my decision largely upon the advice of a friend who is also a guitarist that had already sunk considerable dollars far, far exceeding the cost of a field recorder on his own home studio. After getting his studio all set up, he still had a need for a field recorder. He ended up purchasing a PCM-D50 based on his own exhaustive research and had nothing but good things to say about it, which coming from him was very impressive to me. I'm sure he easily spent more on a single microphone than on the PCM-D50 so it was really something to hear his praise for the Sony. I can tell you that the build quality of this recorder is very solid, at least when compared other electronics on the market these days. I don't consider the PCM-D50 inexpensive by any means, but you do seem to get what you pay for in this case. I also like the fact that so many settings and functions are accomplished via the mechanical interface (buttons, switches and dials) as opposed to using settings within an electronic menu. The majority of settings were accomplished before the first use, and from then on, there is not too much that you have to mess with. That said, the menu screen is pretty good from a functionality/size standpoint, especially when compared to most other available small recorders (it does sound like Marantz does an even better job with theirs). I was quickly able to get up an running with it, figuring everything out that was needed in a short period of time. Fortunately, I'm able to keep things pretty simple because I don't add any effects or processing to the recording. Once I've recorded what I want, I connect the Sony to my Mac and pull in the tracks (.WAV) I'm interested in converting to MP3. I do first open the track in audacity (freeware) to remove the excess beginning and end of each clip. Probably my biggest audio bottleneck has to do with the fact that I'm recording my clips in the bedroom which is pretty dead from a sonic perspective, although I understand that a certain amount of sonic damping is good. I think I might be able to get better sounding recordings if I set up someplace else in the house that is perhaps just a bit more "lively" sounding. One of these days I'll give it a go. The best thing that I can say about the PCM-D50 is that I'm still very happy with it each time I use it. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 By the way, the PCM-D50 does not take a standard SD card (I do believe that the newer PCM-M10 does however). If you want extra memory, you'll have to buy something that I believe is unique to Sony. I haven't messed with it however because just using the recorders built-in memory has allowed me to store hours worth of audio — well over a hundred different tracks without running out of space. The other thing that really impresses is just how much battery life Sony gets out of these things. Truly amazing technology (coming from a guy that also messed around with reel to reel and cassette recorders in his youth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 A quick thanks to everyone. It would be a brave and perhaps foolhardy soul to travel to the music shop to try any of these at this time of the year! Dah Dah Daaah, Dah Dah Dadaaah, Dah Dah Daaah, Dah Daaaah! But when it is all over....I will go and annoy some sleepy and hungover salesperson. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It would be a brave and perhaps foolhardy soul to travel to the music shop to try any of these at this time of the year! No doubt. Although your experience trying to do so might lend itself well to the development of a new blues tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 A little bit of interesting reading on the Zooms and Sony you can find here.... http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/ My current thought is to keep the H2, get a little mixer and a passive attenuator and away you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hi roughdiamond, I've run across information from Fran before and I even think that I've visited this site in the past, but it appears to be updated since I last visited. This looks to be a great resource of information for anyone who is interested in recording the acoustic guitar. I've now bookmarked it. Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yes, that is good information from Fran - I have seen his stuff a while back but I have now bookmarked the site too. Thanks RD. You people must work for Sony? If not, you should. The PCM-D50 sounds very good. A small question, Guth. Where do you place the unit when recording? Why I ask is because the Zoom H2 has optional recording fields and I use the 90 stereo forward option. Over the years I have slackened from very careful placement on a mic stand to what I found gives me a great balance of acoustic guitar and vocal - turn the unit on and lean it on my music stand! (and try not to breathe too hard - it picks this up if I'm too close to the recorder. On the pics of the Sony, it looks like the mics point upward, so I would have to use a music stand and face the mics towards me? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 BK, I recently purchased a TASCAM DR-07 Mark II for $115.00 plus a $20.00 mail in rebate (good through the holidays). Rather novice here, but I'm impressed thus far with the capabilities. Pictured/described here: http://tascam.com/pr...specifications/ I have been looking at this suggestion too! Thanks Scratch47. On the suggested Wingfield site, they only got up to Version 1, so no review for your model. Bit of a shame - their reviews seem pretty good but no dates so obviously old. I have a Tascam DP=01FX which was a good learner unit, but next to your little one, well, big and clunky and now has 3 large spiders living in it. The next model had a cd burner which would make it ideal, but my model you had to run it to a stereo or a computer to make a hard copy. The input converters are pretty average - it really needed a decent pre-amp, which again was not much. So this has put me off Tascam a bit, but I should have a try of some of their stuff. I would look at the upmarket model (DR-100MK2) because I imagine the lower model would be the same as the Zoom H2? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I own an original H4, the predecessor to the H4n. It has all sorts of bells and whistles, multitracking, etc. The menu system is fiddly, the display window tiny, and some critical parameters like input level are fairly deep in the menus instead of having a dedicated button or wheel or whatever. The original H4's had pretty good sound, especially if you used external mics, but the unit itself generated some very evident noise which ruined recordings, in my opinion. I have heard the noise issue was improved with the H4n and I think they have upgraded the buttons, which were cheesy on the H4. I have recently got a Tascam DP-008 (around $200) which is the size of a paperback book and allows a good deal of multi-tracking and mixing functionality right on the unit. The sound seems quite good. I also got a Sony PCM-M10 (around $230) which has better resolution than the Tascam DP-008. It does not do multi-tracking but for basic recording it makes very high quality, low noise tracks. It will accept an external mic with a stereo mini-plug but not xlr, which the H4 and Tascam do handle. So the PCM-M10 is really best as a portable stand-alone unit which can be mounted on a camera tripod. This is actually the type of recording I do most: casual, spur of the moment playing with no setup, usually to capture an idea or an arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Oh, now I'm swinging back to Sony! This Sony PCM-M10 sounds good. If we can minimise hiss and noises on these recordings, plus record them at max 96/24, someone with a few clues can really make them pretty BUFF with some high end processing. A friend, who can talk about 'converters' for many, many, many hours, used a Pro Tools rig with lots of sweat and labour to record yours truly. When I played my Zoom H2 recordings to him, he said why bother fiddling with stereo condenser mics and placement and phasing and other issues when you could just point this thing at the guitar! But there is the hiss issue. He could never rest if there was unwanted noises! BluesKing777. P.S. In the early years, we came home from band recording sessions at a 'proper' recording studio, and listened to absolute rubbish. One tape in particular, the vocals were a very dim signal behind a wall of drum cymbals.... These portables are really incredible next to that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Hey BK, I wasn't aware that the Wingfield Audio site wasn't being kept up-to-date as I had not visited it for some time now. I'm sure that there are quite a few new cost-effective recorders out there that I'm not aware of. If I were in need of replacing my PCM-D50, I'd probably start with looking at the PCM-M10. Not just because of Sony's sound quality which is fairly well regarded, but also for some of the other things that I've mentioned before: good build quality and overall well designed recording products. I'd certainly be open to looking at other options as well. Jerry K brings up an interesting point about desired usage. I still have an older Digidesign Mbox along with a couple of AT condenser mics and the associated ProTools LE software. I spent some time with this setup (keyword: time) and made a couple of recordings, but in the end, I just was looking for something that was more plug & play in nature as I do not have a dedicated recording space. I haven't messed around with hooking up an external microphone to the Sony as that's part of what I was trying to get away from in the first place. The built-in condenser mics are more than enough for my needs (they do tend to pick up every little noise imaginable which can make recording around the house a bit tough at times). I'm really just using the Sony to capture my musical ideas and also share them with family and friends. Of course I also wound up posting on forums such as this. Thus far, I've only been outputting low quality MP3 files for this task and as such I'm actually decreasing the sound quality of what I'm getting straight out of the recorder. One nice thing about the PCM-M10 is that if offers the option to output MP3 files directly from the recorder. I'm sure there are plenty of other recorders that do this now as well. As Jerry mentioned, the Sony's are capable of tripod mounting (see image) which makes it easy to adjust the location of the recorder as needed, although a music stand would work (I've done that in a pinch). Be sure to keep us posted on what you learn and what you end up choosing if you do decide to try something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Link to the PCM-M10 manual Gorillapod tripods are nice with the PCM-M10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Recently I bought a Canon HF M400 which comes with an external mic jack. When you plug in your good condenser mic, you can cut doughnuts around Zoom etc. The best part is that I now have a great hi-res camcorder for things outside of music. Got it from Amazon.com..... mazin quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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