Do any of you believe in "Organic foods/products"?

[milod]

I find it interesting that "we" began to use various "manufactured" crop fertilizers for two reasons: First that they replaced human and animal byproduct plant nutrients that carry various challenges of ; and second, that manufactured fertilizers can be tailored to a specific soil condition and are far more efficient as well as safer than manure or waste animal and plant material.

 

Like it or not, we're "animals" with a genetic history of being omnivores. That latter is especially obvious when one talks to folks who have been at the point of literal starvation such as WWII POWs in Japanese prison camps or those in WWII German concentration camps.

 

A friend who was a younger teen in Korea during the Korean war noted an old saying there that after just three days of no food, "anybody will steal." I suppose it's politically correct that such garbage as was available likely would fit today's definition of "organic."

 

His tales were revealing to me about how a family might try to find survival nourishment in a more or less urban environment such as "suburban" Seoul as compared to my own knowledge of Northern Plains diet of all races and cultures during the time period circa 1860-95.

 

m

[milod]

Moishe...

 

Excellent point. <chortle>

 

Any latkes or jelly doughnuts around yet? Those are foods IMHO that should be year-round favorites along with beef regardless how one defines "properly slaughtered." Mmmmmmm.

 

Another "funny," too, is that functionally "we" discovered beers and wines rather easily since various fungi got into products intended for other uses... Cheeses are curdled milk of various sorts, sometimes with added fungi by intent... sometimes tossed 'cuz the fungi ain't the varieties one planned to be there by intent.

 

m

[grampa]

When my wife offered me a salad for dinner, I told her that salad is what food eats.

 

Vegetarians taste better.

[surfpup]

Vegetarians taste better.

 

And their poop don't stink!

[EVOL!]

There was a Swiss study published in 2005 by doctor Jurg Blum that concluded that organic milk is more expensive than the non-organic variety, but that it also contains "more disease-causing bacteria."

 

Data from the study indicates that organically raised cows produce up to 12 per cent less milk than cows treated with antibiotics. Non-traditional supplements prohibited by organic rules turn cows into less efficient agricultural units. Also, organically raised cows are less healthy and suffer from increased cases of udder inflammation and mastitis. The result is that milk from organically raised cows contains enormous amounts of bacteria. One major concern of the scientists: "A risk for consumers is that these germs can end up in the milk we drink."

 

Swiss scientists compared the "health, nutrition and milk yield of 3,000 cows from 270 organic and conventional herds."

 

Their final conclusion:

 

"Organic milk was not any better than conventionally produced milk."

 

In fact, it might be worse for you.

 

And we (humans) consume the milk of animals we do not directly raise because?

 

So it's a glass of antibiotic laced liquid or one with more bacteria? YUMMY!

[TommyK]

And we (humans) consume the milk of animals we do not directly raise because?

 

So it's a glass of antibiotic laced liquid or one with more bacteria? YUMMY!

 

I'll take the 'clean' milk any day.

 

 

Antibiotics are not fed to milk cows as a part of their regular diet. Livestock use of antibiotics is tightly controlled. Antibiotics being expensive are only administered when a particular pathogen is affecting a producer's livestock. There are very strict withdrawal times which producers must adhere to between the last administration of an antibiotic and when the animal is sold for slaughter or milk is allowed into the food chain. This is done to keep antibiotics out of our food. If antibiotics have found their way to the grocery store shelf, someone is not playing by the rules and can be prosecuted. This is why why the USDA has inspectors in all meat and milk processing plants.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as plant pesticides and residues go, most herbicides are no longer in the soil after a couple years. Insecticides used today dissipate within a few days. If memory serves me, and sometimes it don't, I think that in order for an organic producer's produce to be certified 'organic' the soil on which it is grown must not have inorganic soil amendments added for the previous 5 - 7 years. This is much longer than it needs to be but them are the rules. I once looked into establishing an organic farm, but decided it was too costly for the return.

[Searcy]

And we (humans) consume the milk of animals we do not directly raise because?

 

So it's a glass of antibiotic laced liquid or one with more bacteria? YUMMY!

 

It sounds gross the way you say it. But honestly, cheese is mold, yogurt is bacteria, fish piss in water, a hamburger is nothing more than rotting flesh. I think our own squeamishness can sometimes dictate our position on these things. Then we come up with arguments to try to make it sound like our choice has been made for health or moral reasons when the truth is we just find it yucky.

 

There's lots of stuff I won't eat but it's just because I don't like it.

[cookieman15061]

What about Spock Moore...a hybrid womanising vulcan!

 

Matt

 

With a license to live long and prosper.

[Notes_Norton]

Some commercial foods have high pesticide residue on them. IMHO if it kills the insects, it can't be very good for me either, so for those foods I usually get organic or limit my consumption of non-organic (google dirty dozen foods). Also since organic foods aren't laden with preservatives, they have a shorter shelf life and therefore are fresher and fresher food usually tastes better.

 

I understand why organic produce is more expensive as they get more crop loss to insects and less yield without modern fertilizers and they are not genetically modified to grow faster.

 

I prefer grass-fed beef for its taste and its omega 3 to 6 fat ratio. Usually this means organic, although I am not exclusive about that.

 

I understand why grass-fed beef is more expensive as the steers don't go on a feed lot and get fed hormone laced high glycemic grain to fatten them up for market.

 

So I don't treat organic as a religion, but where either I believe the food is too pesticide laden or if organic tastes better and if the price difference isn't that great I'll prefer organic.

 

Notes

[TommyK]

It sounds gross the way you say it. But honestly, cheese is mold, yogurt is bacteria, fish piss in water, a hamburger is nothing more than rotting flesh. I think our own squeamishness can sometimes dictate our position on these things. Then we come up with arguments to try to make it sound like our choice has been made for health or moral reasons when the truth is we just find it yucky.

 

There's lots of stuff I won't eat but it's just because I don't like it.

 

Let us not forget honey: bee spit.

[vomer]

Mrs vomer and I buy organic where possible, and our 2 year old daughter has been fed almost exclusively organic. While I accept the comments about not being able to control what we take in from our wider environment, we can to a certain extent limit exposure to chemicals in our food and drink. Which may offset some of those other environmental effects?

 

In my humble opinion there is something wrong with filling our environment, our food and ourselves with chemicals which weren't meant to be there.

 

I saw this thread on the 'latest posts' sidebar as I was logging in to the Epiphone forum. This is the first time I've posted in the Gibby forum (hello all) so it must be an issue I feel strongly about.

[milod]

Actually it appears to me that the "organic" folk have done a good marketing job.

 

When that's added to "local fresh produce," it sounds pretty good.

 

But I still recommend washing veggies and ensuring your meats are "properly" cooked to kill bacteria. That sort of thing has a far greater effect on food safety than much of anything else.

 

There's also a good point made about the degree to which "we" may find foods appetizing or not depending on our acculturation. I'm sure that the grubs I saw in a wok in a Korean marketplace were "organic." I just couldn't handle the idea of eating them.

 

One reason our foods are so relatively safe today too is the degree of chemicals added to extend shelf life.

 

I guess if you're happy with any generally "safe" foods, good on you. But I still suggest foods be properly washed and/or cooked because one might be surprised at what little nasties might be there. That's as true with "organic" produce as supermarket stuff.

 

m

[zigzag]

I prefer my veggies from China with just a touch of melamine.

[TommyK]

You're absolutely right Milo. The consumer has to take some responsibility here. Time was only the boys took 'Shop' classes in high school and only the girls took Home Economics. This assured that in a married family, at least one member understood the importance of good food hygiene in the home. Now-a-days, the girls, by and large avoid Home Economics class, if it's is at all offered, because it is seen as being 'too domestic. And the boys STILL don't take Home Economics. Therefore, we have a generation or two who never had a course on food safety. I firmly believe that all students of both genders should be required have at least one semester of Home Economics which includes food preparation and food safety before graduation.

 

Is Home Economics still offered?

[Unionman]

Then the organic/natural pesticides with their own toxins leach into the soil as well. You're simply trading one for the other. Personally I couldn't afford to buy organic here in Kansas even if I wanted to, $2.99 for a pound of strawberries vs. $8.99 for a pound of organic ones? Not going to happen on my wages. Milod makes a ton of great points on the subject so I really don't need to elaborate any further. Do be a little wary on some of these "farmer's markets" - we've had some people here in Kansas simply stopping at the warehouses on their way into the city, pick up the same produce you're going to find in the grocery store, and setting up shop to sell them to you at market for a much higher margin.

 

On a side note I do love garden fresh produce from my own garden, I think the work and waiting adds a lot to how much you appreciate the food - and it's picked truly at it's ripest. Some produce is picked very green in order to make the travel from the farm, to a slew of distributors and finally into your market. Tomatoes especially. Nothing like a garden grown tomato going straight from the vine to your plate.

 

If you buy at 'Whole Paycheck' then you definitely pay out the butt for organic. I can pick up organic products at Safeway without paying a lot. As far as pest control, I was under the impression that organic farmers generally use biologicial pest control, without synthetics.

 

The vegetables I've had from my friend's garden are the freshest/best tasting, no doubt.

[EVOL!]

 

Is Home Economics still offered?

 

 

With the cuts in education funding, kids are lucky to get a lunch break much less courses that aren't prep for the boatload of standardized tests.

[milod]

Home ec still is offered in at least some schools, but it's now considered "technical" education as are any "shop" classes that are left in a given school district.

 

OTOH, here it's called "Family and consumer science."

 

I just got with one of the local HS "shop" teachers who is halfway through his housebuilding project with this year's class group. He notes that a lotta English majors paid their way through college using skills they learned in his class, some of his kids get fully-paid carpentry jobs at age 18 on HS graduation - not apprentice checks - and a percentage of his students over the years currently own their own construction firms of various sizes. Never gonna be a carpenter? Fine, but can you fix that closet or cabinet door?

 

When I was a kid I learned cooking skills through Scouts, my Mom, then under a chef and baker in high school. So... part of my first summer job after HS was as an institutional kitchen meat chef.

 

I'm also a great believer in learning basic skills at a lotta stuff from changing your own tires to being able to do basic sewing. Sewing for a boy? Yupper - if you sail, it's an almost mandatory skill. And girls should know at least how to change a tire and what the gauges mean if they're going to drive.

 

Don't get me wrong, I also think kids should learn their native language and at least be exposed to one or more "foreign" languages, the basics of local, national and world history, an intro to philosophy and logic, music, basic business math and sports.

 

I've always said that if one has these skills, they likely can get along about anywhere: cooking, sewing, the three "Rs," basic firearms and unarmed self defense.

 

Guitar playing is fun and sometimes can even be considered part of unarmed self defense by making folks smile - and a solidbody bass even can be used as a rifle/bayonet if necessary...

 

m

[Notes_Norton]

<....

Guitar playing is fun and sometimes can even be considered part of unarmed self defense by making folks smile - and a solidbody bass even can be used as a rifle/bayonet if necessary...

 

m

And a microphone stand with the heavy cast iron base can be used as a crowd control device.

 

(sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

If all the farmers in the world went organic, we wouldn't be able to feed our current population. The crop yields are too low.

 

I don't eat exclusively organic, but mix it with conventionally farmed foods, trying to make the most sensible blend for me.

 

And yes Milod, I can cook and Leilani can change a tire. I agree with you, there are basic skills everyone should know. If you are going to use a tool, you should at least understand the basic operation of the tool and how to use it properly, and that includes ovens, guitars, and lawn mowers.

 

Notes