12BarD Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I just thought that I would put this out there. As a beginner, this has been a big help to me. ChanMan was kind enough to help me out with some settings on my amp and to me it sounds great. However, I also noticed that when I make changes I really couldnt hear the difference. I asked a Pro Jazz Musician about this and this is what he suggested I do: For you seasoned folks like ChanMan this wont be much help but maybe there are a few beginners out there that will find it useful. At least I hope!!! "Turn down the Bass and Mids to 1 and then crank the Treb. to 12. Listen as you move the Treb. knob up and down while a chord sustains to get a feel for what part of the sound is affected by the Treb. knob." "Then do the same for the Bass and Mid knobs." "Then do the reverse: Cranking all of the knobs to 12 and lowering each knob independently. After awhile, you will have a better sense of what to expect from each control." Though I still can not hear the difference between slight changes this little technique has helped me "HEAR BETTER" on the over-all. I hope that this will help someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 this is a good idea with some amps, but not others. for example, if you try it with a Mesa Mark series amp, then you will get a completely different result than what you think. there are many other amps out there that this won't work on also. it's not a bad idea, but i would edit it a little. EQ with your ears, not your eyes! turn them until it sounds good, no matter how funny it looks. it's hard to make yourself not tweak things with your eyes a little bit to fit what you think "should" be the correct setting. just turn knobs. turn them every way you can, as far as you can both ways..... but do it with your eyes closed. when you find something good, then leave it. if you never find anything good, then you need a different amp to achieve the tone you are after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Good point Modoc, I hadnt thought of it like that. I also was not aware of the fact that the "AMP TYPE/MAKE" would have an effect on this idea. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 yeah, the example i gave of a Mark series amp is the most drastic type. the EQ is in series instead of parallel. the are (in order) treble, bass, mid. as you crank the treble, you give the bass knob more overall signal to work with. then, that affects how much signal the mid knob gets. so, as you crank the treble, the bass also goes up (more signal overall) so you have to lower the bass, then the mids. a good setup for a screaming rock tone on a Mark would be something like treble on 8, bass on 2, mids on 5. it looks totally funny, but it's right. if you do a more traditional setting of Treble 7, mids 4, and bass 8 for a heavy tone, then you will just get mud and crap. old AC30s have very interactive controls too. if you crank the treble, it also turns down the bass. cranking the bass also turns down the treble. lowering one, cranks the other. on a tweed deluxe, cranking the tone knob adds treble, but it also adds more preamp signal overall... thus adding gain and totally changing the sound of the amp. the jazz player you talked to, probably doesn't use many amps that act like this. most amps that guys use for jazz these days have EQs that act more like one would expect on a stereo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Ya, I didnt ask him about his other amps just the Blues Junior and this was what he came up with for me. I know he has one only because he told me that for him, the Junior wasnt working well for him with his Arch Top. (as far as tone/Jazz Style goes) I guess its another one of those things......... One just has to dive in and learn all the he or she can and hope that along the way they find that little nitch that they are lookin for. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 that's it... and play as many amps as you can get your hands on... even the ones you know you won't like. it's worth it. twist every knob every way. and ask someone who knows the amp what they like to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I guess this is sort of on topic.... I too have a terrible time dialing in tones and I am really embarrassed by it. As some of you know, I have a KranK amp on order. I met a guy over at the KranK forum who is a professional musician and has the same model amp I am getting. He was kind enough to give me the exact settings he had worked out. These are the tones I have so far: Jimmy Page(rock) Dimebag Cream tone EVH Randy Rhoades Zakk Wylde Slash also the settings for the clean channel for 60s/70's creamy-tone rock. He is working on a good SlipKnoT tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 We should all be very thankful for the help we get from others no matter what the topic is!!! I know I am. Learning something new like an instrument is a wonderful journey.......but in the beginning it sure can leave you cold at times and its great to have a place to ask for help!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I guess this is sort of on topic.... I too have a terrible time dialing in tones and I am really embarrassed by it. As some of you know' date=' I have a KranK amp on order. I met a guy over at the KranK forum who is a professional musician and has the same model amp I am getting. He was kind enough to give me the exact settings he had worked out. These are the tones I have so far: Jimmy Page(rock) Dimebag Cream tone EVH Randy Rhoades Zakk Wylde Slash also the settings for the clean channel for 60s/70's creamy-tone rock. He is working on a good SlipKnoT tone. [/quote'] i hate to say it, but this won't really do the trick. it comes down to so much more. your rig vs his, your hands vs his, and the room. the speakers, pickups, guitars will all change the tone. his pick attack may be different from yours and cause a brighter or darker tone. also, the room you are playing in will affect it. whenever i see someone say "these are the settings i use on my amp" then i know that they either never move the amp, or they have no ear. each room sounds different. remember that part about each player sounding different. it really makes a difference. so, try out the settings he sends you, but don't stick to them. you can't be afraid to tweak them a bit. think of them as simply a good starting point.... not "the setting for that tone" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Well, it will be a hell of a lot closer than anything I could come up with on my own. He mentioned they may need a bit of tweaking for my exact setup of course. Really, I am just looking at them as a good starting point for some killer metal tones rather than for specifically playing songs by those groups(although except for Slash, I'll be attempting that too). I'm really grateful for the advice he gave me. I'll take any advice I can get which I realize is what you are doing now. The single most helpful bit of advice I have gotten here at the Gibson forum is being made aware of those THD Hotplates. I could have saved myself much time, aggravation and money had I known about those before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 + 1 Great post 12 bar. I was always told for the rock sound to scoop the mids, even to the point of turning them off. To me thats more of a metal sound...not rock. I usually set every knob at the 12 o'clock position and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thats one more thing that I had not considered.........the acoustics of place A vs place B or C. Granted, as a beginner, my amp doesnt leave the house at this time. But when the day comes when I can finally go play a few songs with friends at thier homes wont that be a trip!!!!!!!! I also have to side with Wolff. For some of you this is just second nature and something that I admire while for others like myself having a starting point really is a big help. Crawl before you walk I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 oh, yeah... it's a constant learning process. no one ever really gets there! it's a lifelong journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 As per usual, some of this is good info! Here's my 2 cents: You are just starting out and learning to develop your ear, so play with the knobs! I used to start with everything at 12:00 and play a chord progression, then drop them all to 1 and play the same, then to 10 and play the same. I still do this with my new amps and pedals. Even for those wired in series, as this gives you an idea of the range your gear can accomodate. From that point on, it becomes a matter of tweaking for the specific tone you're trying to dial in. Don't forget that some amps are boost/cut style, so adding more bass could also be accomplished by cutting back the highs, etc. . (so don't forget to RTFM ) And I cannot agree more that so MUCH of the tone comes from the player, not the gear, so treat any settings you are given as a launching ramp to what sounds the best to you. One of my favorite tricks is to set my gear up like I want it, then alternate between blues/country/metal songs using nothing more than the controls on the guitar... and my playing style... ***Some tips: Don't forget the volume knobs on your guitar. VERY important to your overall sound. You need a nice, fat tone from the guitar into the amp/effects. You can do a lot to the signal once it gets there, but you only get one shot at the input... make it count. It isn't always about sounding like some one else, unless you are trying to NAIL that one tone. A lot of it is sounding like you, so if you run into that "Cemetary Gates" tone... or something really close that sounds really good to you.... STOP tweaking your gear... you found what you are looking for! (Now start tweaking your technique....) Don't be afraid of the knobs. Just because "everybody says" set your amp up like "X" to get a certain sound doesn't mean you can't use other settings... (0 mids is a great example ) And lastly... your ear will change. Some times a setting that sounds great today will sound like crap tomorrow. Something I learned from the good folks at Eden Amplification... EQ your amp everytime you play when you start out. It will get you in the habit of using your ear to set it up. It's ok to use the general settings you used the last time, but make sure you dial in the tone. On my BJ, I set everything to 1 and started from scratch every time. I still re-eq my bass amp everytime I play. Hope this helps! ***Taxes,tag, title and dealer prep not included. All sales final. Your actual mileage may vary. Readers in CA, RI, OR and TN may have specific rights beyond these limitations. No purchase necessary, void where prohibited. WARNING: The Surgeon General has determined that really loud rock and roll music is detrimental to your hearing. Too bad we didn't hear him when he told us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 As always, great help from ChanMan!!!!! "THANKS" It is somewhat funny when you think about it........... Ok ya you may be a beginner like myself but it is "YOUR STUFF" and yet you go to reach for that knob and stop short thinking......oh I better not do that!!!!! And RTFM is a very good point.......one ought to know what it is that he or she has!!!!!!!! Well, lesson time in an hour so I better get ready, again, thanks to everyone for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 RTFM = 'read the F'n manual'? All this advice leads me to believe I have absolutely no clue to what I am doing with the tone. It has been a problem that has plagued me since I started playing a long, long time ago. All I want is to know what is a good basic rock setting on a 3-band EQ? I usually have the treble and bass around 1 o'clock and ad or scoop the mids depending on how 'metal' of a sound I want. Basically I am never satisfied with the tones I get. It's really starting to get to me. I feel so friggin' lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12BarD Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 You got it Wolff!!!!!!! Amazing what we can find in those little books isnt it??????!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolff Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 You got it Wolff!!!!!!! Amazing what we can find in those little books isnt it??????!!!!!!!! Not for me unless it tells you specific settings which they never do. I edited my last post btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 RTFM = 'read the F'n manual'? All this advice leads me to believe I have absolutely no clue to what I am doing with the tone. It has been a problem that has plagued me since I started playing a long' date=' long time ago. All I want is to know what is a good basic rock setting on a 3-band EQ? I usually have the treble and bass around 1 o'clock and ad or scoop the mids depending on how 'metal' of a sound I want. Basically I am never satisfied with the tones I get. It's really starting to get to me. I feel so friggin' lame. What is it you don't like about your tone? (perhaps... do you feel like you have a "basic tone" might be a better starting point... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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