Other Ultra III owners.... how's your USB?

[murakumi]

So I bought myself an Ultra 339 (Pelham Blue) as a Christmas present, and I'm loving the guitar. I know others have had setup or QC issues with theirs, but I've had no fit/finish problems ever since opening the box and find the neck perfectly suited to my hand.

 

The main issue I've been experiencing, though, is with the electronics. The main reason I bought it was for the USB connection, as when I work during the week I stay over at a palce where I don't have an amp, so my intent was just to plug this into my laptop to play. I'm finding that there's two problems:

 

1. There a LOT of background noise when I use the USB connection, at around -30 dB. I've tried using a noise gate/compressor, but it just ends up sounding unnatural. The noise persists despite whatever pickup combo I'm using (Nanomag/Probuckers/both), or even despite whatever the volume pots are set at. It's just.... background noise.

 

2. Every once in a while after leaving the USB plugged in for a bit, the sound gets all.... jittery. It's hard to explain what it sounds like exactly, but it's definitely very.... digital, for lack of a better word. Oddly enough, this problem corrects itself if I unplug the USB cable and plug it back in, but that's obviously going to get in the way should I try to record.

 

So.... do any other Ultra III owners (Les Paul or 339 alike!) have problems with their USB connections? I really don't want to return this guitar as it's perfect otherwise, but I'm not sure if the issues I'm experiencing are just par for the course.

[newchamp]

I just picked up the same guitar today. 01/05/12

 

I have problems with noise also, but with both USB and regular output but USB is much worse.

In my case it happens only if I touch the bridge pickup or adjustment screw, which my pinky often does.

I can touch the pickup even with the volume knob all the way down and it's still buzzes making it unplayable.

 

It appears to be some sort of ground issue.

I found if I am sitting in a chair and lift my feet off the floor the noise is greatly reduced, but still present.

 

Another issue I have with the USB is after a few minutes playing with 'G Rig' I get a crackling noise that progressively get worse until I have to just close the program.

If I immediately start it back up, the crackling is gone. I'm not sure if the first issue is a contributing factor, or just a software problem, but I cannot use it in any case.

 

I hope it can be resolved I really like the guitar. We will see, and I will post the outcome.

[murakumi]

I just picked up the same guitar today. 01/05/12

 

I have problems with noise also, but with both USB and regular output but USB is much worse.

In my case it happens only if I touch the bridge pickup or adjustment screw, which my pinky often does.

I can touch the pickup even with the volume knob all the way down and it's still buzzes making it unplayable.

 

It appears to be some sort of ground issue.

I found if I am sitting in a chair and lift my feet off the floor the noise is greatly reduced, but still present.

 

Another issue I have with the USB is after a few minutes playing with 'G Rig' I get a crackling noise that progressively get worse until I have to just close the program.

If I immediately start it back up, the crackling is gone. I'm not sure if the first issue is a contributing factor, or just a software problem, but I cannot use it in any case.

 

I hope it can be resolved I really like the guitar. We will see, and I will post the outcome.

 

Whoa... thanks for the reply, newchamp! It seems both our issues are exactly identical, which I guess is good in the sense that neither of us got a lemon, but bad in the sense that this problem is going to be there for all Ultra III's.

 

I did some more testing on my part on three different computers, and it seems the "noise" from the USB connection is always there, regardless of whether it's a Mac or PC, 32-bit or 64-bit.

[brianh]

I have problems with noise also, but with both USB and regular output but USB is much worse.

In my case it happens only if I touch the bridge pickup or adjustment screw, which my pinky often does.

I can touch the pickup even with the volume knob all the way down and it's still buzzes making it unplayable.

I haven't tried the USB yet, but I had the same noise problem with the first Ultra 339 that I sent back.

 

So far no noise with the new Pelham Blue version, but I will try the USB this weekend and see what happens.

 

There are different versions of the USB protocol - could this be the source of some interface issues?

[newchamp]

Mine is going back to MF for exchange. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next one.

[murakumi]

I haven't tried the USB yet, but I had the same noise problem with the first Ultra 339 that I sent back.

 

So far no noise with the new Pelham Blue version, but I will try the USB this weekend and see what happens.

 

There are different versions of the USB protocol - could this be the source of some interface issues?

 

I personally tried different cables, different computers (and therefore different ASIO drivers). Same symptoms: a lot of background noise, and after leaving it plugged in, it starts crackling something fierce like an android is trying to do unspeakable things to my ear.

 

If there's an interface issue, it has to be with the actual A/D conversion hardware on the Ultra-339 itself.

[RaSTuS]

Fellow member Aethyr bought one and has been using it under Linux, he's very pleased with the results.

 

Ultra III on Linux thread one

 

Ultra-III on Linux thread two

[murakumi]

Fellow member Aethyr bought one and has been using it under Linux, he's very pleased with the results.

 

Ultra III on Linux thread one

 

Ultra-III on Linux thread two

 

Actually, I saw Aethyr's threads first, but it seems he has been having the same issue:

 

In general the feedback from the USB Socket is quite significant...

[RaSTuS]

Actually, I saw Aethyr's threads first, but it seems he has been having the same issue:

I didn't realise that, mmm, doesn't look good, I'd like to hear something from an official Epi source on this, definitely sounds like there's some gremlins lurking in there somewhere.

[murakumi]

I didn't realise that, mmm, doesn't look good, I'd like to hear something from an official Epi source on this, definitely sounds like there's some gremlins lurking in there somewhere.

 

Actually, I submitted this question to Customer Service, and Benton Cummings got back to me. "Our Epiphone staff is not certain of the exact issue." is the current official reply.

 

I just got off the line from Guitar Center, too. Seems that I can't exchange it since they're out of Pelham Blue, besides, I really love this one particular guitar I got, so I'm really teetering as to whether or not to live with the gremlins or not.

[RaSTuS]

Actually, I submitted this question to Customer Service, and Benton Cummings got back to me. "Our Epiphone staff is not certain of the exact issue." is the current official reply.

Yeah, I meant as a reply to this thread, they do check the forums out on occasion, it'd be nice if they could make comment on the issue here.

 

I don't envy the position you're in, such a tough decision.

[RaSTuS]

I just read through that second of those Linux/Ultra-III threads again and it seems there's mainly a problem if the USB and 1/4" jacks are used simultaneously according to Aethyr.

 

I have another question if someone owns an Ultra III. When both the USB Socket and the Quarter jack are plugged in, I get some high frequency feedback. Am I to assume that the guitar was not meant to be played normally while plugged in a PC? In general the feedback from the USB Socket is quite significant..

 

Is this the same with yours ???

[murakumi]

I just read through that second of those Linux/Ultra-III threads again and it seems there's mainly a problem if the USB and 1/4" jacks are used simultaneously according to Aethyr.

 

Is this the same with yours ???

 

It's a LOT worse (the background noise, that is) if both are plugged in at the same time, but the background noise still exists if you use the USB only (as was the primary purpose I was hoping to use the guitar for, myself). I think it may be something of a grounding issue; the pickups themselves through an amp seem a bit noisy FWIW.

 

Also, it seems there's a lot of misinformation floating around about the USB connection; many reviewers seem to think it's a third pickup. It's NOT, what it simply does is take the "mono" output, digitize it, then send that over USB. I'm no engineer, but I'm thinking that it could be related to some issue with grounds for sending a duplicate signal, the same way the real fancy A/B boxes have a ground lift to prevent this sort of thing.

 

(There's one review on Musician's Friend that seems to confirm this problem, excess noise, also exists when trying to use both 1/4" jacks at once as well. Sigh.)

[RaSTuS]

It's a LOT worse (the background noise, that is) if both are plugged in at the same time, but the background noise still exists if you use the USB only (as was the primary purpose I was hoping to use the guitar for, myself). I think it may be something of a grounding issue; the pickups themselves through an amp seem a bit noisy FWIW.

 

Also, it seems there's a lot of misinformation floating around about the USB connection; many reviewers seem to think it's a third pickup. It's NOT, what it simply does is take the "mono" output, digitize it, then send that over USB. I'm no engineer, but I'm thinking that it could be related to some issue with grounds for sending a duplicate signal, the same way the real fancy A/B boxes have a ground lift to prevent this sort of thing.

 

(There's one review on Musician's Friend that seems to confirm this problem, excess noise, also exists when trying to use both 1/4" jacks at once as well. Sigh.)

That's a huge problem, I have 2 Ultra-IIs and was looking at getting an Ultra-339 because of the USB option, it's the major upgrade over the Ultra-II in my eyes, and is also a major selling point for them, if it fails, then so will their sales, because it won't be long before everybody becomes aware of it and it gets labelled a lemon.

[Aethyr]

Well well, I've been quoted so many times and just realised it

 

Ok, here's the deal. The guitar itself, plugged to the computer and routed straight to the output, is dead silent. No feedback, no cackling noises after a while. I've left my guitar plugged for a day straight and I haven't had anything of the sort.

 

For me, the feedback becomes present only on highly overdriven settings - which is absolutely natural. I have long since figured out the issue with using both the USB and the normal output jack as well, it was a routing issue with my normal gear. Using the Rakarrak "Expander" module as a Noise Gate, I have had absolutely no issues. It kicks in full force once you stop playing and kills the noise from the gain or the Hum from the Nanomag. Once you start playing again, it backs off, so the guitar sounds perfectly natural.

 

In case you are not proficient with Real Time Audio, read the following. Otherwise, well...

 

To me it smells like bad driver settings configuration or routing issues. Make sure you take enough time fixing your Buffer and Frame rates. Real Time Audio is not easy or intuitive in the least. I suggest to go further than just following epiphone's instructions and read up on guides/watch videos.

 

Make sure you are using monitors that can take what you're trying to do. If you're playing off some 5-10 watt PC speakers then I'm not surprised you're having sound issues. It's like trying to use a bicycle instead of a bulldozer to demolish a wall. In fact, I'm looking to upgrade my current monitors as well to get a better sound quality.

 

Remember to use a proper noise gate module with tweakable High/Low Pass Filters, especially if you're trying to get an Overdriven sound. Always keep note of your clipping limits. Also, keep in mind that the Nanomag is NOT a Hum-cancelling pickup, so it will always be noisier than the ProBuckers.

 

If you have more questions I'll stick around. I'll just try and dispel RaSTuS's fear, I do not think that there's an issue with the USB connection of the Ultra Series. I've layered simulated Rakarrak effects that provide Overdrive on top of a Boss Metalzone on top of a Mesa Boogie Amp, and the guitar falls dead silent once I stop playing. Does that alleviate any of your fears?

 

Now, it is always possible that some batch of Ultra - 339s came out problematic, I wouldn't know, I bought the LP Ultra III.

[RaSTuS]

Does that alleviate any of your fears?

Thanks for the clarification of your situation Aethyr, glad that it's working so well for you.

[murakumi]

Well well, I've been quoted so many times and just realised it

 

Thanks, Aethyr. Good to know that it's working as expected for some. I've spent a lot of time with the Buffer rates on this end, but no such luck; I'm also fairly certain it isn't the ASIO drivers for me since I've attempted on both PC and Mac but with no success on either end.

 

I've used both the built-in noise gate in Amplitube, as well as Ableton's noise gate, and while both work as you described in your scenario, the threshhold I need to set is just so high that it really does start to affect my playing.

 

As far as your setup.... what bit rate are you running at?

[Aethyr]

Thanks, Aethyr. Good to know that it's working as expected for some. I've spent a lot of time with the Buffer rates on this end, but no such luck; I'm also fairly certain it isn't the ASIO drivers for me since I've attempted on both PC and Mac but with no success on either end.

 

I've used both the built-in noise gate in Amplitube, as well as Ableton's noise gate, and while both work as you described in your scenario, the threshhold I need to set is just so high that it really does start to affect my playing.

 

As far as your setup.... what bit rate are you running at?

 

I had the same problem with the threshold when I tried to set it up in Guitar Rig in my Windoze Installation... However, I didn't think too much of it since it works on Rakarrack. I just blamed the GR Noise Gate module for being crappy and the fact that the stereo setup on my windows PC is complete crap compared to the one I use on my Linux media center pc (guess why )

 

Because 1 image = 1000 words, here's a screenie of my setup with one of the presets that I use. You can see that there's ample distortion there

 

 

As you can see, I haven't bothered much to optimise it at all, just tweaking till it works. Since we're using USB 2 (I assume, Epiphone never mentioned what it is but it looks like a USB 2 to me), I wouldn't worry too much about bitrates, they will always be pretty low. I can get to a very similar latency in my Windoze installation (around 6 msec, that's fine, I'd only attempt for godly-low latencies if I was doing pro-work here) and it sounds very similar - I certainly don't get random background noise.

 

I really can't say much else. I'll keep testing on different machines (thankfully, building & repairing computers is another hobby of mine, so there's like 8 of them in the house, and about half of them should be capable of doing RT Audio processing without issue) to see what will happen, but honestly, I don't think I'll come up with any problems.

 

By the way, make sure to plug the Ultra in a powered-USB socket. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with your problem (probably not), and it's not specified that you have to, but with Audio Equipment I've found it's always best to do so.

 

It sounds more and more like a problematic batch of 339s if you ask me, we really need more LP posters here to clarify this. A few 339 owners complained, but I'm still the only LP owner who posted...

[LHW]

I haven't bothered to even try that aspect of my U3...it's not something I ever really planned on using, as my guitar and PC are in two different rooms.

 

Right now the missus is taking it back to GC again (I can't leave the area this weekend, as I'm on-call for work), but if she's able to bring it home, I'll see if there's any noise issues...I have two different quality USB cables, and I'll try 'em both, if I can.

[Barcham]

I'm a computer tech and I'd like to echo Aethyr's suggestion to use a powered USB port. Do not use a USB hub or even connect it to a USB port on the top or front of your system that are connected to the motherboard by an internal cable. Always plug directly to a port on the back of your system that is directly on the motherboard. I have even seen data corruption problems when plugging a USB powered external hard drive to a case mounted USB port as well as external drives that did not spin up at all. I had similar noise problems when using the USB interface from my Rocksmith game to connect to my PC and they went away when I connected to an onboard port.

[LHW]

OK, finally got around to trying this, however briefly. When I used a port on my laptop, things were fine. When I used a port on the docking station, there was noticeable noise.

 

So, I'd say this goes along with what Barcham posted above.

[newchamp]

Just to update on my situation. I got my replacement today for my original noisy unit. I received what appears to be a used one due to multiple packing tapes on the box, and the rest of the packaging looked like it had been not carefully opened or repackaged. When I opened it up, the tuner on the bridge pickup was missing the bezel and the button to turn on/off, and there was a lot of debris rattling from within the cavities. Without even strumming a chord, I called MF to return this one and they are happy to return for exchange, but are backordered until June. This is my first Epiphone purchase and needless to say it has been less than satisfying so far. I did try a V.S.B. ultra at my local G.C. and the fit/finish was substantially better than the 2 Pelham Blues I have received. I hope this is just a fluke and I will eventually get a keeper.

[Glen Campbell]

I bought an Ultra III yesterday and have been having a dickens of a time trying to get the USB to work at all. In my case, however, it appears that the USB port on the guitar has been damaged; if I wiggle the USB cable around a bit, there are certain points where it "catches" and I can hear sounds. The rest of the time, it's dead silent. I'll probably return it to Guitar Center tomorrow.

[MissJackson]

I bought an Ultra III yesterday and have been having a dickens of a time trying to get the USB to work at all. In my case, however, it appears that the USB port on the guitar has been damaged; if I wiggle the USB cable around a bit, there are certain points where it "catches" and I can hear sounds. The rest of the time, it's dead silent. I'll probably return it to Guitar Center tomorrow.

 

I had the same problem with my Ultra 339. I decided to try using the USB cord that came with my external hard drive and it worked fine. I emailed Gibson to request a new cord, but haven't heard anything. I would try using a different USB cord. I have no noise issues when using the USB but it is hums quite a bit through my tube amp.

[Glen Campbell]

I had the same problem with my Ultra 339. I decided to try using the USB cord that came with my external hard drive and it worked fine. I emailed Gibson to request a new cord, but haven't heard anything. I would try using a different USB cord. I have no noise issues when using the USB but it is hums quite a bit through my tube amp.

 

I took mine back to Guitar Center last night and they immediately issued a credit and ordered me a new one. If that one has problems, I may try a different USB cable. However, I had tried three different uSB cables with the first one, and none of them worked, though they all worked fine with other devices. Seems to be a mechanical problem with the actual connection inside the USB port on the guitar.