Spot Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Have ya'll seen Dave's latest video? Pretty shocking job by the good folks at Gibson IMO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That is shocking :( Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Nothing to see here, just move along. The really sad thing here is that the Gibson Inspector actually signed this guitar off. Ohhhh,..and I totally disagree, there is plenty to see here before moving on. Gibson is a High End Guitar company trying to sell quality musical instruments at a premium price. Its too easy for people to simply blame the buyer for taking the guitar home. What's the point actually having a Quality Control system in place if it makes a mockery of the company? I'm not saying that every guitar should be have a pro set-up and be 100% perfect but this is just shitty workmanship. Something the brand SHOULD NOT stand for. Charge the buyer another $50 and take the time to inspect the guitar properly or sell it for $50 less and don't bother checking your products.. Do you buy a Merc or BMW that needs to be fixed by a a repair man 5 minutes after driving her off the lot? I don't think that you would... Hey, but that's just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carv3r Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 i like how the guy says Toronto. :) and also he seems like someone i would know. love it as for the guitar. that fret board must have shrunk.. id hope it did atleast. lately Gibsons QC has been like Fenders QC in the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 A guitar should not leave the factory like that. Gibson say that they are the best. So qc should be top. Do PRS have these problems? I think not. That fretboard too? Stained baked maple? Mmm.I look at guitars half the price of Gibson and the finish is far superior. They need to pull their socks up. We're seeing too much of this on here. I know because my 60's tribute goldtop went back. Another lost sale for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 i like how the guy says Toronto. :) and also he seems like someone i would know. love it ...Dave is Great. Super funny guitar tech. I recommend ya'll sign up yo his youtube page. Quality guitar repairs with priceless comedic value! Way to go you Hoser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat-o-steve Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The standards for the faded series LP's may indeed be just above the Melody Maker, but my Melody Maker is flawless ;) That being said, I own 4 Gibson's, a Melody Maker, A Les Paul Studio (not the faded model), an SG Special (Faded) and a Les Paul Standard. The Melody Maker and the Standard were indeed flawless instruments, but the LP Studio and the SG Special both had issues. The SG having the lesser of the 2. I'd say it is deffinately hit or miss with Gibson....you NEED to hand pick your instruments. When a Gibson is right, they are truly unbeatable! I will say this, I have NEVER had any issues with a new Fender product, and I own 20 Fender guitars, and a few amps ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Those fret ends are a big problem. They shouldn't have left the factory like that. They also shouldn't have left the store like that. The shop should have refused to sell once the issue was pointed out. Finally, the guy who bought it isn't too bright if he didn't get a massive discount. I'm always amazed at these folks who make these videos saying "I just paid good money for this guitar and it's crap!" Well, then why did you buy it? A friend of mine in the U.K. won a Les Paul Studio years ago and was super excited to get it. When he picked it up he described the exact same issues with the fret ends. I hate to sound conspiratorial but this has me wondering if Gibson saves problem guitars for the over seas market knowing they will be less likely to come back on return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu fhtagn Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 "Prestige, Quality and Innovation" :blink: One out of three ain't bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I will say this, I have NEVER had any issues with a new Fender product, and I own 20 Fender guitars, and a few amps ;) I spent two years looking for a Squire Burst Fretless Jazz Bass that didn't come from the factory with 1/2" action at the 12th fret. Never found one. When they jacked all their prices across the board 30% a few years back I gave up. My experience with Fender has been that many or them are nearly unplayable from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmonics101 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree, don't watch and move on :) Heck, that's what i did. Was that an acoustic or an electric that had the QC issues in the video ? Anyway, just like a person on an assembly line doesn't want to blow the whistle to stop the entire factory, so an inspector doesn't want to hold up sending out questionable units. From a manufacturing point of view as well as an accounting view (they most likely can declare the loss on the books in a more pleasing mannter to the accounts) its best to quote unquote be a bit lax on the back end. Heck, I ultimately put it on the responsibility of the buyer to not purchase these quality control issue products. If you are not meticulous when purchasing a high end product, that is ultimately YOUR choice in the matter. Its not like you don't have options. My goodness gracious, go to your mom and pop stores and take time to make sure its a quality product you are buying. In these times, everyone is so quick to point the finger at the other guy and it being THEIR fault. Fess up you cupcakes and take responsibility for your own actions you whimps !!! :) Harmonics101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 What if its an ignorant parent buying it for a gift for their kid? They don't know what the frets are supposed to look like. The kid probably told the parents what model so they went and bought one...I understand the buyer beware thing.... But I would have sent it back to Gibson for repair instead of a local guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It said the buyer pointed the bad frets out the to store manager and they offered to fix the guitar before selling it but the buyer wanted it "right now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmonics101 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ShreadAshaire, true that if its a gift and the person buying is truly not in a position of being knowledgeable, there is that problem. But there is always recourse if the instrument is under warranty. I do apologize for my momentary spontaneous outburst regarding Gibson QC. I guess I know how those Martin afficianados get so riled up when you mention 'wings' Harmonics101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Would like to know how he polishes the fret ends. I really like that file jig. I suspect "James" is not enjoying his morning coffee. I don't think this thread belongs in the Les Paul board. While the guitar is a LP, the subject is about quality, a Lounge subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Nothing to see here, just move along. While this is a guitar that has some inspection issues we must remember that every company out there have bad apples leaving their facility. Gibson is not the only one who has poor quality control. While I do understand this was a present; why purchase a guitar with the issues with these issues? I am going out on the limb here but I just can't believe this was the only guitar in the city available to be used as a present. Yes this is a huge shame about this guitar; and it should have never left the factory in this condition. Hopefully the individual who inspected the guitar will be found and made to continue his training in being a Quality Control Inspector. The big picture is whats really sad in this situation. We have progressed so far now that we are willing to pay our hard earned cash for items that are way below acceptable standards. A few years ago we would not have accepted such poor workmanship by any company. Today's business environment knows that eventually a item will sell and with the lower standards leaving these companies we as consumers are truly excited when we receive a item thats only average. Whats funny is that these companies look at us like we are crazy when we ask for the standards that these companies have been known for in the past. As for this individual guitar without making excuses for Gibson since all companies do this; this is a faded studio and the standards for that guitar is just above a melody maker. Maybe the buyer would have been happier and money better spent on a Epi? That money spent for a American LP could have purchased a really nice Epi or another brand. The problem in today's business climate is that most companies are very complacent and just do not care about customer service. Funny tonight on CNBC was a show called Customer Dis-Service and it actually touched on this situation and other aspects of companies losing contact with the consumer. Well said........There could be all kinds of reasons...inspectons are prob basic and like most places it gets to the point were it becomes pencil whipping...in the end the consumer should have taken it back....they touched it now there is no recourse should any other problems arise.......on the other side of the scale, you would be surprised how often companies reward people for their stupidity.....they buy something, they break it or altar it, it messes up, they return it for full refund or replacment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carv3r Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ...Dave is Great. Super funny guitar tech. I recommend ya'll sign up yo his youtube page. Quality guitar repairs with priceless comedic value! Way to go you Hoser! man, as a guy from the east coast that now lives in ontario,. that stitched my gut, :) thanks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I can see the mistake in the inspection, but seriously what's the big deal? The guy did a fret dress and now the kid has a great guitar. I bought a Strat with same exact problem. It cost me $35 to have is dress and setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is an ESPECIALLY common fault with the Faded LP Studio, I was aware of this before buying as I asked before shipping that they send me one without the issue shown in the video above. Shame but you are saving £400 corners will sadly be cut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 . This guy Mark comes off as a real tool to me. That Studio is an extreme case and not the kind of thing I would expect Gibson to miss. I have never run across a Gibson with fret ends completely sticking out, and that far out - wow; of course that doesn't mean it never happens. How about some pertinent information - When was it shipped - September as he seems to indicate form the serial, or later in the cold dry weather? Toronto - does the store have the proper humidity and temp? He questions the obvious - dehydration; so did this character hydrate the guitar before working on it? It doesn't seem so from the video. OTOH, it's possible the fretboard wasn't dried/cured properly and was too "wet" when used in assembly, but then you would expect to see separation in the fretboard-neck joints. I don't see that which leads me to believe that guitar might have been in a dry environment too long. While this guy might possibly be correct about this getting through Gibson Q/C, with a more proper approach he should have hydrated the guitar first and then checked the fret ends before trashing Gibson with this video. I hope the purchaser is satisfied with this guy's work next summer - if the wood swells the fret ends won't be at the edge of the fretboard. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Those fret ends are a big problem. They should have left the factory like that. They also should have left the store like that. The shop should have refused to sell once the issue was pointed out. Finally, the guy who bought it isn't too bright if he didn't get a massive discount. I'm always amazed at these folks who make these videos saying "I just paid good money for this guitar and it's crap!" Well, then why did you buy it? Not that I should be a grammar police, but... I think you mean to say "They shouldn't have left the factory like that. They also shouldn't have left the store like that" your way made it sound like it was ok to have sharp fret ends. Also, was the fretboard hydrated enough? maybe it needed some TLC.. Here on the forum Customer Service says that Baked Maple boards can get oiled.. do they shrink as much as rosewood does if they get really really dry? Last The guy in the video said.. I don't want to mention the store it came from .. But since ALL Gibson Les Paul's are imported into Canada by Yorkville Sound (owners of Long and McQuade retail stores) and there are really no "mom/pop" shops here in Ontario much any more, you only have about 5 big shops here that I can think of and they all get their Gibson's from Yorkville Sound. Should the guitar have left Gibson's plant? no Should Yorkville be on the hook..Doubt they even unboxed it and looked at it. Should the store be on the hook, yes, they probably should have sent it back. Should the guy that bought it be on the hook? .. He should have never bought it if he didn't like it, but he accepted it as it was and took it to a guy he trusted to set it up. BTW in all my dealing with a said "big box" retailer here in Canada, I've never gotten them to give me any really good discounts on anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I took a few QC classes back in the 90's when I was pursuing a master's in industrial operations. On principle that they pushed hard was that YOU CAN'T INSPECT QUALITY INTO A PRODUCT. It is a far more reliable practice to design and staff your processes so that a quality product comes out of each stage on the line, rather than slap anything together, then "inspect out" the bad ones at the end. The question is not why an inspector missed what appears to be a glaring problem, but why something like this came off the line in the first place. The likley answer is that the person doing the work didn't know how to do it properly in the first instance, or the shop floor culture was such that they didn't care, or possibly that improperly dried and seasoned wood is being used. I know a lot of board members are great fans of Henry J's management practices and philosophies, particularly "low cost low wage" staffing, but I can't help but think that having hand work done by a low wage workforce with a high turnover is the root of the quality problems that seem to be dogging Gibson recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I can see the mistake in the inspection, but seriously what's the big deal? The guy did a fret dress and now the kid has a great guitar. I bought a Strat with same exact problem. It cost me $35 to have is dress and setup. ...Little more serious than just needing a simple fret dress. What if a company like Boeing started cutting corners on the production of it's 777's??? It's only a wing after all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ...Little more serious than just needing a simple fret dress. What if a company like Boeing started cutting corners on the production of it's 777's??? It's only a wing after all!!! Obama will need to put together an agency like the FAA and call it the FGA. We need to avoid somebody else from losing $35 to the Grim Luthier . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Further on this subject, I’m finding the common response that the buyer of a new guitar should expect to have to take it to a luthier to correct poor workmanshipa bit irritating. There is a difference between taking a new instrument to a luthier in order to have items of personal taste (neck relief, action, nut height, adjustment for non-factory strings etc.) set on a new instrument, and having to take an instrument in to have manufacturing defects corrected. If I took a new car back to the dealership because it stalled right out of the lot, the response that “most new cars need a tune up by a qualified mechanic before they will run properly” would be quite unacceptable. Why is it acceptable in the guitar business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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