mrbrsan Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I talked to a Gibson Rep. and he told me that there exists the possibility that some of the guitars that were manufacture AFTER the raid could Maple and not Rosewood. Thank God I bought a Les Paul Standard that was manufactured months before the raid. He said there does exits the possibility that if it had been manufactured two months+ after the raid, the fingerboard might be Maple. Has anyone heard the same thing??? Also, how much stock is left of Rosewood fingerboard models???
Gary Moore Tribute Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I talked to a Gibson Rep. and he told me that there exists the possibility that some of the guitars that were manufacture AFTER the raid could Maple and not Rosewood. Thank God I bought a Les Paul Standard that was manufactured months before the raid. He said there does exits the possibility that if it had been manufactured two months+ after the raid, the fingerboard might be Maple. Has anyone heard the same thing??? Also, how much stock is left of Rosewood fingerboard models??? After the Raid they now use Baked (Darkened) Maple & Obeche on all their guitars. Theirs been no new Les Paul Standard or Traditionals (Without the Plus, etc) I've seen "59 Customs" with Rosewood boards but I can't tell if they where made pre raid or post, then again the rosewood the Custom shop uses wouldn't likely be Indian.. http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/Gibson-Les-Paul
strat-o-steve Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Almost every low end Gibson model now uses obeche or a baked maple fretboard, and the midtown custom uses a made-made material ;) but this is advertised in their specs. Not that these materials won't prove to be just fine over time, it just isn't "traditional". I doubt Gibson will introduce another fretboard on the Les Paul Standard or Custom anytime soon, due to their price tag, if they tried this their sales would tank! Although there is a Standard and a Custom model with baked maple fretboards, their price is not anywhere near the price of the true Standard and Customs ;) I say hold on to your Gibsons with rosewood and ebony fretboards.....in about 25 years collectors may be seeking "pre-raid" models LOL.....who knows, right? No one wanted a 1960 Les Paul in 1960, that's why they stopped production. A few years later, when the demand was back, they began production again and now a 1958-1960 "Burst" Les Paul "Standard" is about the most valuable guitar there is! ;) New materials will be introduced as time wears on, and if we are still here in 200 years, I doubt guitars will even be made of wood!
mrbrsan Posted January 7, 2012 Author Posted January 7, 2012 Almost every low end Gibson model now uses obeche or a baked maple fretboard, and the midtown custom uses a made-made material ;) but this is advertised in their specs. Not that these materials won't prove to be just fine over time, it just isn't "traditional". I doubt Gibson will introduce another fretboard on the Les Paul Standard or Custom anytime soon, due to their price tag, if they tried this their sales would tank! Although there is a Standard and a Custom model with baked maple fretboards, their price is not anywhere near the price of the true Standard and Customs ;) I say hold on to your Gibsons with rosewood and ebony fretboards.....in about 25 years collectors may be seeking "pre-raid" models LOL.....who knows, right? No one wanted a 1960 Les Paul in 1960, that's why they stopped production. A few years later, when the demand was back, they began production again and now a 1958-1960 "Burst" Les Paul "Standard" is about the most valuable guitar there is! ;) New materials will be introduced as time wears on, and if we are still here in 200 years, I doubt guitars will even be made of wood! Thnks mate!!! I am also tinking of buying a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro. I tried one in Guitar Center and I was beyond impressed. Muscians Friend has them on sale for $1,899 USD. They have Rosewood fingerboad, and they are a unique model that might increse in value a few years down the road. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this guitar.
DiamondJig Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Then again if Gibson gets the green light on rosewood and ebony those baked maple's may become the new holy grail in the future.
Tim Plains Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I've seen "59 Customs" with Rosewood boards but I can't tell if they where made pre raid or post, then again the rosewood the Custom shop uses wouldn't likely be Indian.. They use Indian rosewood. I say hold on to your Gibsons with rosewood and ebony fretboards.....in about 25 years collectors may be seeking "pre-raid" models LOL.....who knows, right? No one wanted a 1960 Les Paul in 1960, that's why they stopped production. A few years later, when the demand was back, they began production again and now a 1958-1960 "Burst" Les Paul "Standard" is about the most valuable guitar there is! ;) I don't think so. There are way too many "pre-raid" models out there. There's only around 1,600 '58 - '50 Les Pauls in existence and they're not insanely valuable just for what they are. The people who played them made them iconic guitars.
strat-o-steve Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 OMG WTF, Gibson is still buying rosewood and ebony; it was two pallets of wood. Man I love this place its the sky is falling all over again. Its a great thing what has actually happened if you ask me since Gibon would have never used maple on the LP or SG in the limited releases that have out right now. These guitars (Classics, Classic Customs, SG Limited Edition Standards) are every bit of Gibson as the Rosewood and Ebony's. IMO they actually sound better and the maple feels just like ebony. This is exactly how rumors and trash talk start. For those who bash the new Maple fret boards I would suggest keep your comments to yorself unless you have actually spent time with one of those guitars. I would gladly put my new LP up against the cork sniffers LP's any day any time.... Wrong they already have and these guitars are fantastic and the only difference between my custom and a 4k custom is 1: Bling, I can do without the binding on the rear of guitar. 2: Obviously the fretboard 3: The new Customs have Classic 57's vs the original customs have 490/498 which IMO do not sound as nice as the Classic 57's I strongly suggest buy these guitars up before Henry decides to raise the price equal to the old standards. Finally while some may have negative feelings towards this new fretboard, the masses have spoken and store (online and big box) have huge problems keeping these guitars in stock; since these are as much as a Gibson as the other Gibsons. Oh come on now, you know I was talking about the ACTUAL Les Paul Standards and Customs. Those will always be made with traditional materials, or else discontinued when those materials are no longer available :P The Les Paul Classic and Classic Customs with the baked maple boards are not the usual Standard and Custom, that is still in production. I never said these baked maple Gibsons weren't Gibsons...Just that they are not true "Standards" or "Customs" ;)
stein Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 After the Raid they now use Baked (Darkened) Maple & Obeche on all their guitars. Theirs been no new Les Paul Standard or Traditionals (Without the Plus, etc) I've seen "59 Customs" with Rosewood boards but I can't tell if they where made pre raid or post, then again the rosewood the Custom shop uses wouldn't likely be Indian.. http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/Gibson-Les-Paul None of this is true, or factual, or based on any available facts. I know it seems you are trying to help, but it just seems odd that nearly everything you write turns out to be not true. Just too much of a coincidence. At the very least, I would think you would have learned from the Epi forum fiasco you would have learned not to do these things. Please, please do not start doing that again here.
stein Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Then again if Gibson gets the green light on rosewood and ebony those baked maple's may become the new holy grail in the future. I have no crystal ball, but I am guessing this is the most likely scenario. Rosewood and ebony are still plentiful, and relatively inexpensive. That doesn't change because they get busted, but the issues with Gibson getting supplies seems more temporary, and the result of the Feds more than the availability of the wood itself. I haven't tried the baked maple, so I can't comment there...But I DO notice those that have bought them have a very positive response, and many are "traditionalist". And, the maple boards on older LP's are very sought after.
strat-o-steve Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Really so the Limited edition Customs and Standards with different materials like maple before this happened are not real customs? I personally really enjoy my not real Custom, and again would put the tone, material and cost up against any "real custom". Lets not forget that I have owned customs prior to Katrina. No, they are not the "standard" issue Standards or Customs. It doesn't mean your guitar is not a real Les Paul, or a real fine axe. It just means it isn't the "standard" model. :P One is $3,800 and one is $1,800 (speaking of the new Customs). One is the true Custom in the traditional sense, the other one is a twist on the tried and true formula. I am in no way knocking your guitar(s). I'm just saying that there is the "Custom Classic" and then there is the actual "Custom" ;)
strat-o-steve Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Thnks mate!!! I am also tinking of buying a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro. I tried one in Guitar Center and I was beyond impressed. Muscians Friend has them on sale for $1,899 USD. They have Rosewood fingerboad, and they are a unique model that might increse in value a few years down the road. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this guitar. I love the Les Paul Traditional's....be it the plain traditional's, the pro's or the plus'. I bought the Traditional Plus because they have GORGEOUS figured tops!!!! Depending on your musical tastes, you may prefer one over the other, since the Traditional Plus has the not-as-hot pickups ('57 Classics). I think the Pro is sweet, witht he coil taps and all....I recommend going and playing several though, and hand-picking :) Mine came set up perfect too...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 None of this is true, or factual, or based on any available facts. I know it seems you are trying to help, but it just seems odd that nearly everything you write turns out to be not true. Just too much of a coincidence. At the very least, I would think you would have learned from the Epi forum fiasco you would have learned not to do these things. Please, please do not start doing that again here. Its my observation regarding the subject, based off all the info I have heard and read. I have a right to express an opinion. If believing The Custom shop would use the likes of Brazilian Rosewood on the £4,000+ guitars is a crime then im guilty Regarding that fiasco thats long in the past, I moved on (Thanks to it Epiphone is most certainly off the Menu...)
stein Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 After the Raid they now use Baked (Darkened) Maple & Obeche on all their guitars. Theirs been no new Les Paul Standard or Traditionals (Without the Plus, etc) I've seen "59 Customs" with Rosewood boards but I can't tell if they where made pre raid or post, then again the rosewood the Custom shop uses wouldn't likely be Indian.. http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/Gibson-Les-Paul None of this is true, or factual, or based on any available facts. I know it seems you are trying to help, but it just seems odd that nearly everything you write turns out to be not true. Just too much of a coincidence. At the very least, I would think you would have learned from the Epi forum fiasco you would have learned not to do these things. Please, please do not start doing that again here. Its my observation regarding the subject, based off all the info I have heard and read. I have a right to express an opinion. If believing The Custom shop would use the likes of Brazilian Rosewood on the £4,000+ guitars is a crime then im guilty Regarding that fiasco thats long in the past, I moved on (Thanks to it Epiphone is most certainly off the Menu...) This is not "stating an opinion", this is informing. If you state an opinion, at least the reader might choose not to take it to heart and continue to research to find the answer he wants. When you post information that is wrong, it tends to cause those that TRULY want to be helpful to have to correct you so the person asking the question gets the help he is seeking in the first place. But, again I stress, it is to much of a coincidence that nearly everything you state as "info" has been wrong info. What is troublesome, is that the FIASCO that you caused at the EPI forum is that you have no problem pitting poeple against each other, including myself. You were shown a great act of kindness by the EPI forum when you were busted selling fakes, because this forum seemed to be so important to you. So, seriously, if you have truly "moved on" from that, it doesn't mean starting up what you did there on another forum.
Gary Moore Tribute Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Can we clear up what I have actually said that is wrong here? as I'm confused (Learn = don't repeat) AFAIK Maple & Obeche are the only 2 boards being currently used and theirs been quite a bit of discussion about it since they came in. To clear up regarding the Epi incident I was selling it at the time to get a Gibson LP Studio and was informed it may be a fake by PeteR (Tho it was fully fitted with Gibson parts by me only the body was original) I left it up while it was being accessed, but in the end it was removed and I sold ALL the Gibson parts and got the Studio that way. No one was unfortunate apart from me and I have shown that particilar guitar many times on here well before it was questioned. It was a very convincing copy and just came to show how good they were getting... Needless to say I've been very careful since and I have been taking time to ensure I post information that is true or if not I say it could be the rosewood the Custom shop uses wouldn't likely be Indian..
BillyGibson Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 What if, in an alternate universe Gibson had used baked maple and Obeche wood for finger boards. And the alternate universe feds raided them and confiscated it. Then they found a source of rosewood and ebony wood to use instead. Would the alternate universe forum be having a similar discussion?
martinh Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 To throw in a shade of devil's advocate cynicism, it does appear that propery documented and legally sourced rosewood and ebony are available. However maple is cheaper, and easier to source. Is it possible that this incident is being used as an excuse to try out cheaper production methods and see if the public accepts them, or jusitify even higher prices on the top end of the line?
marvar Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 To throw in a shade of devil's advocate cynicism, it does appear that propery documented and legally sourced rosewood and ebony are available. However maple is cheaper, and easier to source. Is it possible that this incident is being used as an excuse to try out cheaper production methods and see if the public accepts them, or jusitify even higher prices on the top end of the line? ya know- I've thought this a few times myself- maybe it's just the conspiracy theory hippie in me- Could this all have been done (or allowed to happen) on purpose so that big G could start using cheaper materials, yet still charge the same price-(increased profit margin), after all, the money wasted on some of the boners they have come up with, has to come from somewhere! Plus, big G can throw up their hands and say "it's not our fault we had to change materials- blame the government!" Then Henry J can't be blamed. I dunno- I lay awake at night thinking about these things-
martinh Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 What if, in an alternate universe Gibson had used baked maple and Obeche wood for finger boards. And the alternate universe feds raided them and confiscated it. Then they found a source of rosewood and ebony wood to use instead. Would the alternate universe forum be having a similar discussion? You bet! In the alternative universe one group is complaining that the rosewood smells funny, feels funny looks bad, and had degraded the tone from the wonderful baked maple used on those classic '59's. Another is complaining that this is a conspiracy by anti-environmentalists. Henry J is on MSNBC arguing that the Republican administration is targeting Gibson for its strong support of union rights.
JMB1984 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Gibson also did limited runs with Curaco de Negro fingerboards. See: Guitar Center Exclusive I played all three of three of the "new" fingerboards and thought the guitars sounded/played great. Nothing to be too concerned over IMO.
BillyGibson Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I don't know what Obeche is, other than reading it here for the first time. I would want to play one and see how it compares in terms of feel. Once plugged in, I don't know that there would be any difference in tone. Baked Maple wouldn't be a deal killer for me. I bought a Fender Tele with all maple neck last year and it's great. That's one of the reasons I liked it. Something different than a bound rosewood fret board. I just put a humidifier in its case because I just noticed after reading this thread the fret tangs are sticking out a bit now from the dry air this winter. But nothing like the video. My own observation about Gibson is, they make changes and don't do a real good job of communicating them to the market. Sometimes they don't communicate them at all and we discover them ourselves. Or they just quietly do it and it feels like they are "sneaking" one over. Especially when they change the specs on a guitar and don't get around to updating their web-site for a couple years. That happened on the Sheraton where they kept the 5 piece neck description when it changed to the solid. They even ran a news article on the website last January touting the gorgeous 5 piece neck. And after I pointed it out to them, they quietly edited 5 piece out, so it read gorgeous maple neck. But they never acknowleded the error or responded to me about it. I wound up buying a used one, because I wanted the 5 piece neck. Now they have both floating around out there and the description is simply maple neck. Because the description was left unchanged and I couldn't find any new, they lost a sale. I was pretty irritated too, because up to then I had only bought new and it was always Epiphone or Gibson. All I wanted from them was honest/open communication. Now of my last two guitars purchased, one was a new Fender Tele and the other was the used Sheraton. If they had changed the description to reflect what was being made, I may not have even noticed or cared about the 5 piece neck. But the poor communication sent me in a different direction. I'm still a fan of Gibson/Epi, and love my GLP. But for me to buy a new one from them, it will have to be pretty special. This is an opportunity for them to sell the change to the market. They should pump this up and get some excitement going for it. They need to announce it. Instead of baked mabye describe it as "seasoned" or "aged". Tell us why they do that and how it will make playing the guitar that much better. Perhaps have introductory pricing or a free accessory kit of: strings, a strap, some picks, etc.. BUT, they still need to make these the BEST they can and not slip up in QC. Ok. My rant is over.
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