Aster1 Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Hi Everyone, As I pick up guitars, either electric or acoustic to play, it just amazes me on the vast differences in ease of playing between them. All my guitars are "setup" to about the best they can be with the action, relief, and strings for me to play. Also, NONE of them vary much in the specs of the above "setup" with string height, nuts, relief etc. What vexes me is this, a cheaper guitar, quickly made, lesser materials yadda yadda, often "outplays" my bigger (sometimes WAY bigger) ticket gits. Now I'm only talking about playability, not factoring in sound as the bigger buck ones (esp in acoustics) just blow the cheaper one away in that arena. I really do want to understand what you all know and have come to with experience. I don't know what I'm missing. I have some dups in Epi vs Gibson that I'm comparing. Also, if I have the chance to play a guitar that someone else owns vs one of mine not necessary same model even. Just me maybe but I find that my Ric's, Gretsch's & Fenders are my best players in Electrics compared to my Gibson's or Epiphone's. Only exception is my Casino Elitist. It plays wonderful. My Epiphone's somehow to me anyway outplay my Gibson's. Again, what am I missing and where should I start looking to get playing better. They've been into one of the finest Luthiers in the Midwest for setups on all the bigger $$$ gits even. Very frustrated with the performance as I, maybe wrongfully, expect the big buck stuff to play AT LEAST as well as the cheap stuff. Thanks in advance for any guidance!!! Aster
strat-o-steve Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Squier's do play very well when set up! LOL That being said, I think you need to set the guitars up yourself. No one will be able to get the feel you are looking for, sure it may still be a good setup, but only you know what you are looking for. Also, the "same specs" cannot be interchanged between all of your guitars. Each and every guitar will require differing amounts of relief, string height, string gauge, pickup height, etc to be it's best. I'd say a little experimentation is in order for the guitars that you feel don't play as well as they should. :) My Gibson's require less relief and heavier strings than my Fender's do to feel about the same. Also, some companies do a better job during the installation of the frets, and get them more level and better crowned, just better fretwork all around. A good fret leveling, re-crown and polish on any guitar will make a HUGE impact on how low you set your string height without buzzing ;) Grab your allen wrenches, screw drivers and a straight edge...it's time to tweak!!!!!! :D
JellyWheat Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 The angle at which the neck is set is one of the most overlooked factors in getting a real "player". Although it can theoretically be adjusted, it is a big job in a set-neck guitar, and a small change in angle can make a huge difference in playability. This is why I rarely buy a guitar I can't play first... it is also why two seemingly identical guitars can sound and play completely differently when you try them in the store. The worst scenario is when there is not enough backward cant to the neck angle. When the fingerboard approaches a plane parallel to the axis of the boty of the guitar, the bridge has to be lowered to the point that the break angle of the string over the saddle is insufficient. This produces weak tone, especially in acoustics. It is a very complex question that you ask, but I'm sure the other Members will each contribute a little "Pearl of Wisdom". J/W
MissouriPicker Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I've got a Rogue auditorium-size grand concert something-or-other that I paid $59 for, instead of 130, because it had some cosmetic flaws (I suspect every Rogue has them). Anyway, came with a low-end Fishman in it. Acoustically, it's on the quiet side (I've got extra lites on it because I had a pack of them laying-around for a couple years, so I used them), but plugged-in it kicks-butt-royally. It says that it's laminated, but I suspect that it's plywood...lol...Either way,it's one-heck-of-an-instrument for $59. I'd still like it if I'd paid the full price. The setup is very comfortable. Very low. Just a light touch on the strings is all you need. Not much more effort than you'd need to chord an electric. Neck is straight-as-an-arrow. The braces run north-south, east-west, and all points-in-between. The sunburst is pretty tacky, but that's okay too. When it's plugged-in 99.9999999999% of the listeners don't know it from a Hummingbird or an 814. Is it equal in quality to a Gibson or Taylor, Martin, etc.?----Of course not, BUT, it is a very playable guitar. In many ways, a guitar is a guitar, and this little Rogue is truly a sweet guitar. They all have strings, necks, bridges, tuners, etc. It's the quality of the woods and craftsmanship that give us the "holy grail" guitars we all desire.
dem00n Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 The tone, the feel and the looks. Thats all, for me the name on the headstock doesnt do anything. Sure, it might add value or take away but its just a name. Where its from does provide comfrot but ive played **** guitars from Japan and the USA. Tone wood does matter, but theres a lot of guitars out there that have prove that wrong.
chewy60 Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 i've sacrificed playability for tone. it ain't easy playing a heavy les paul with thick strings (and plectrum) and medium-high action. but when i plug in, it makes the hard work (my hands have to go through) worth it.....
stein Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Can't say what makes your particular guitars play different from each other, obviously without seeing them or playing them or knowing more about what is different about them, BUT, perhaps a few observations? I have noticed, some guitars will hold the set-up better than others. In particular, a thinner mahogany neck can change in the weather or just from time, where a Fender with the maple neck will just stay solid. Same with different tops on acoustics. I say this because sometimes, it just creeps up on you-may not notice a gradual change, but one day you might just happen to notice and it hits you. It may be a coincidence, and more have to do with what the guitar is made of rather then quality or price. The other thing, I know for me, a set-up is often a compromise between tone and playability (although, not always). I personally will tend to attempt better playability on cheaper guitars, because I know that is one thing they can do as well as a better guitar, so I am less afraid to make compromises toward diminishing sound. With a cheaper guitar, I tend to just go for it as far as playability.
Buxom Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 When it's right for your hands. That's why you search and search until you find one you love.
Buxom Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 i've sacrificed playability for tone. it ain't easy playing a heavy les paul with thick strings (and plectrum) and medium-high action. but when i plug in, it makes the hard work (my hands have to go through) worth it..... I play an 8 or 9 lb Tele, use light strings, medium picks, and keep my action as high as it can go. The tone is killer, I know what you mean.
Lungimsam Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 I like set necks, and flat necks (neck profile dimension between thumb and middle finger as you are holding the neck as if playing classical style - thumb placed on back of neck, fingertips arched and touching strings.). My'61RI is a very flat neck. This is very comfy for my hands. Set necks you can play right on up to the tippy top of the board without undue strain or contorsionism of the hands and wrist like you might have to do on a bolt-on. This goes double-quadriple for bass players. Neck profiles are a matter of taste and ergonomic fit. Just remember: "If the grip don't fit, you must aquit", so to speak.
Buxom Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 When I go above the 16th fret on my Tele, I just grip around the whole thing and play that way. Then again, I have rather large hands.
Aster1 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Posted January 8, 2012 1st and foremost, thanks to all with the help. I don't want to sound like I'm arguing any points here so don't get me wrong. I'm just really trying to get this crap dialed in and enjoy playing these guitars more. I'll give you some more details for points brought up. I'm just a good flat pick, rhythm player. Nothing too fancy, but I love to play for enjoyment & relaxation. Acoustics get .11's and Electrics get .10's for strings for the most part. I like long scale lengths and laquered necks. Well, I do have to say the Ric's, Tele & Strat (all lacquered maple necks) play like stings of butter. Also on my Acoustics I keep the relief close to but not flat necks (maybe .08" at the 6th fret. I will check and set the relief anytime it needs some tweaking so I'm okay with that. On the Acoustics, string height is at or under 5/64" (Low E) & 4/64" (High E) @ the 12th fret. Lower on the Electrics, maybe 4/64 & 3/64. I haven't had all the frets leveled & polished. Still, this is somewhat of an enigma to me. I just can't seem to understand with all the "indicators" being much the same on the gits, why the big buck stuff, that SOUNDS great, are more of a struggle to play vs. my cheap seat stuff. Thanks again for any guidance or suggestions to check or understand. Aster
S t e v e Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 "What makes a guitar a "great player"...a 50's neck.
milod Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Aster... I've taken static on this one, but I'm also convinced the body shape itself plays a significant role in "comfort" along with the neck. E.g., my favorite "electric" the 175 and my favorite acoustic, an Epi PR5e are almost identical in size and although there are differences on the necks and a bit of difference in setup, are most comfortable to play. For what it's worth, I started playing in Ankeny, Grinnell and Des Moines on classical instruments that for all intents are relatively similarly sized guitars to the above-mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my other guitars that I've bonded with, but... playing "comfort" has always been my priority and the "tone" never really has disappointed me either - which I consider a factor of either my bad ear or my fingers working well enough with guitar and amp combination to suit me... m
rocketman Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 When I was gigging heavily all I had was my Sonex. It's basically a cheap Les Paul but I played that guitar for a very long time. When I started buying other guitars it took me a long time to become comfortable with them. The Strat with that darn middle pickup drove me nuts! After a while I was ok with every one of them, even though the Sonex is more "natural" to me. The answer was already given, but what makes a guitar a "great player" is the player. Jimmy Page is probably just as comfortable playing a Dan Electro as he is with his '59 Les Paul. I like to play all my guitars so that I can get used to their feel. Then it's a matter of which one I prefer for which tune. But this is mostly based on tone.
surfpup Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I have noticed that players who have played only one guitar for a long time have a hard time adjusting to anything else. One more reason to own a lot of guitars I guess!
ChanMan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Perhaps if we knew what makes you say they are harder to play? You tell us they are all pretty much set up the same, but the cheaper guitars are easier to play.... so, what makes this so? Are you saying it is easier to get "your sound" out of the cheaper guitars? Are you saying the cheaper guitars are easier to fret or riff on? Whassa deal, man?
Aster1 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 Perhaps if we knew what makes you say they are harder to play? You tell us they are all pretty much set up the same, but the cheaper guitars are easier to play.... so, what makes this so? Are you saying it is easier to get "your sound" out of the cheaper guitars? Are you saying the cheaper guitars are easier to fret or riff on? Whassa deal, man? Sorry, I've been away on a project and just got back last night. It is really ONLY the fretting part, not a lead or shredder player. Just a good flat pick strummer rhythmer for playing style. Esp. with Bar Chording is really when I notice the "lack" of ease to fret the different guitars. It seems like about the easiest acoustic I have to play is either a IB Texan, Epi Dove, or Epi Hummingbird. All play very easy, but all leave me flat with the tone vs. the real deal in a Gibson version (not the Texan of course, just threw it in as after a pro setup & 11's it plays easy). Still it's rather "hollow" sounding for tone for me. That's what is perplexing me so much. Neck set is all good, string height is low, relief is very close to flat, 11's for stings etc. To answer Surfpup, I have about 30 guitars now so I best not get any more until I get this figured out. Thanks for looking into this with me. I truly just want my Gibby's to play as easy as my Epi's. If I can ever get my new 61 Reissue Gibson SG back, I think it played as good or better than my Epi SG Custom. It sounded better as I did play it a bit. I took it off to the Luthier/Gibson Warranty shop to have a warranty issue corrected with a good buffing here & there. Does anyone else have duplicate guitars like both the EPI & Gibson (fill in the blank)? Milod, I don't think the neck "shape" is causing me the problem, but then if I knew what was wrong, I'd have the answer wouldn't I. Aster
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