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serious Pup Tech question.


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Posted

Ok, So I LOVE my late 90's Epi 56 RI, that was established When I first got it.

 

it sounds great through the Marshall, but I am still struggling with trying to dial in my tone, I am close but not quite there.

So I am thinking about swapping out the Kent Armstrong S-90's that are in it for a set of TV Jones T-Armonds.

They com in a soap-bar mount Neck @ 8 ohms bridge at 11 ohms.

 

Has anyone here used/heard these? there are very few examples out there to compare.

from what I have researched the are hotter than a stock 90, but they are cleaner in general, so you can drive them harder.

 

My other option is to switch out my Vol pots to 250k to bleed some of the highs to earth.

knob roll off works but muddies a bit, I like the aesthetics of the T-Armonds, and the adjustable pole mags are a great touch too.

 

All Legitimate Suggestions are welcome, I know we have a few tone wizards out there.

Posted

An 11 KOhm p-90 is pretty heavily over wound. P-90's are typically in the 7-8K regions. Assuming the higher resistance is because there are more turns of wire on the bridge pick up, it has been my experience that increasing the number of turns tends to emphasize output and midrange at the expense of treble. If you feel the instrument is too bright, which it looks like you do if you want to change the pots down to 250K, this may do the trick. However if you have minimal electronics skills you can simulate the pot change very cheaply to see if you like the effect.

 

I'm going to assume that you have 500k pots in the instrument. This 500k resistance between the pickup and ground (when it is turned full up) damps the pickup a little, and reduces the high end. If you connect a 500Kohm resistor across the pot, the combined resistance will simulate a 250K pot., which damps the high end more. So

 

(1) Go to radio shack and buy the following: a small 500Kohm resistor, and a couple of crocodile clip leads ($4-6)

 

(2) Connect a clip lead to each end of the resistor

 

(3) Connect the other ends of the two clip leads to the outside solder tags of the volume pot for the pickup you want to test

 

(4) If you are an electronics newbie, there are no dangerous voltage involved, and virtually no chance of damaging anything.

 

(5) You now have a circuit that simulates the loading of a 250K pot. See if you like the tone. Remove one clip from the resistor, and see if you can hear a difference

Posted

I don't have experience with too many different p-90 types, but to me, the key in the p-90 tone IS in the use of the volume and tone knobs.

 

Said that to say that if you are not happy with how they are reacting, that might be the first place to try and improve. I know that using the Gibson or Fralin ones, if I could not get good tones out of the use of the knobs, I wouldn't be happy with them.

 

I like the 50's wiring with them. I think one thing it achieves is the reaction of the tone controls and volume controls. I am pretty sure "technically" one thing it does is put the effect of the tone control AFTER the effect of the volume control. The effect is that when you turn down the volume or the tone control, it does't turn to mud or just roll off the sparkle when you roll down a little.

 

Also, I think 300k are the best pots, audio taper. In reality, the ones I measure come up about 300-400k, usually average or most likely about 330-360k? But, I think they work better than a 250k or a 500k.

 

And lastly, I think PIO caps really shine for a p-90 guitar. They may sound not as bright, but they retain more clarity in the rest of the spectrum. That is my opinion, of corse.

 

And lastly lastly, I have actually noticed a big difference after all the above is done, that running the coax/braided wire throughout like originally done to also make more of a difference than I would have thought, as opposed to the style of doing it now with the harness. For me, when I have done it, it is the last step in making the guitar come to life as the fat p-90 machine that I think they should be.

Posted

An 11 KOhm p-90 is pretty heavily over wound. P-90's are typically in the 7-8K regions. Assuming the higher resistance is because there are more turns of wire on the bridge pick up, it has been my experience that increasing the number of turns tends to emphasize output and midrange at the expense of treble. If you feel the instrument is too bright, which it looks like you do if you want to change the pots down to 250K, this may do the trick. However if you have minimal electronics skills you can simulate the pot change very cheaply to see if you like the effect.

 

I'm going to assume that you have 500k pots in the instrument. This 500k resistance between the pickup and ground (when it is turned full up) damps the pickup a little, and reduces the high end. If you connect a 500Kohm resistor across the pot, the combined resistance will simulate a 250K pot., which damps the high end more. So

 

(1) Go to radio shack and buy the following: a small 500Kohm resistor, and a couple of crocodile clip leads ($4-6)

 

(2) Connect a clip lead to each end of the resistor

 

(3) Connect the other ends of the two clip leads to the outside solder tags of the volume pot for the pickup you want to test

 

(4) If you are an electronics newbie, there are no dangerous voltage involved, and virtually no chance of damaging anything.

 

(5) You now have a circuit that simulates the loading of a 250K pot. See if you like the tone. Remove one clip from the resistor, and see if you can hear a difference

I am quite adept at maintaining and modding Guitars, so that end is covered.

I was just throwing my options out there to see what the local opinions were.

Screw radio shack, the never have the right value parts in stock when I need them, so I use either pedal parts plus, Stew Mac, or Mouser electronics.

I like to get all my parts at once, even though it means waiting a couple of days,

The T-armonds have good bite and attack response, and all the research I have done the are quite a bit more transparent, and defined than a 90.

I play Single coils through a 100w Marshall Plexi, High end is NOT lacking in any way shape, or form.

I have everything dialed in really close to what I like, there is just a.... edge I can't quite seem to make go away without losing my overall preferred tone.

I think my best bet is gonna be both, the T-Armonds and some of those new Brass shaft pots two 250k and two 500k Stew Mac is selling.

If I don't like it, I can play with pick up/pot combos till I find the right setup.

That is part of the fun of playing electric guitars, the possibilities are limitless.

 

P.s. The Seymour Duncan Hot 90 in my LP Junior reads 15.7k on my multimeter........[blink]

 

Stein, PIO Caps may well be on that order, I have been using Sprague Orange Drops, the Junior Had A PIO in it, can't quite remember why I decided to swap it out....

Posted

TV Jones makes good stuff.....

GFS sells standard P-90s(dream=vintage wound/mean =o/wound) noiseless P-90s in dream and mean, and these P-180 soapbar humbuckers in vintage,texas(hot bridge),and o/wound.

mine sounds great, I took the vin.wound.

prices are really sweet too !

 

GarysCam164.jpg

Posted

TV Jones makes good stuff.....

GFS sells standard P-90s(dream=vintage wound/mean =o/wound) noiseless P-90s in dream and mean, and these P-180 soapbar humbuckers in vintage,texas(hot bridge),and o/wound.

mine sounds great, I took the vin.wound.

prices are really sweet too !

 

GarysCam164.jpg

Dude, no offense, but.....

I bought a 180 to try out in my junior, IMHO they are complete and utter garbage....

It spent all of AN HOUR in the Jr. before I yanked it and threw it in my Box O' Pick ups.

Pup' s are one of those things where you get what you pay for, you want quality you got to lay down some scratch.

Posted

wow, i guess "all legit ideas are welcome" goes to "complete and utter garbage" fast around here.

 

wish i'd read more carefully what tone you're after.....why not scrap the guitar and buy a nice chainsaw instead?

 

the 180s seem fine for vintage tone thru a Fender amp.....i.e. clean when playing gently/gnarly when gettin' down on it.

 

but then again, i've only been playing for 37+ yrs......i'm sure you're vastly more experienced.

 

now.....where's that ignore button again??

Posted

wow, i guess "all legit ideas are welcome" goes to "complete and utter garbage" fast around here.

 

wish i'd read more carefully what tone you're after.....why not scrap the guitar and buy a nice chainsaw instead?

 

the 180s seem fine for vintage tone thru a Fender amp.....i.e. clean when playing gently/gnarly when gettin' down on it.

 

but then again, i've only been playing for 37+ yrs......i'm sure you're vastly more experienced.

 

now.....where's that ignore button again??

 

Wow..... Sorry dude I said no offense.

You proffered a suggestion, I countered with real world experience, I didn't realize you were gonna get all butt-sore over an honest opinion.

if you like them that's great, they work for you? go for it.... Not my thing.

 

And ya had to whip out the old "I have been playing (insert impressive number with a + here) Years, so obviously I know everything there is, and you are a clueless amateur"

 

I am not going into and flame fest in retort, I will say you haven't been playing much longer than I have, so easy off the coffee there bub, take a deep breath and relax a little.

People get way to wound up around here

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