Spot Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Have ya'll hear this interview? I had only read the press on the factory raids last year. Interesting...
Californiaman Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Gibson was raided??? By the GOVERNMENT!?!
Spot Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 Gibson was raided??? By the GOVERNMENT!?! Hahhaaa,..very funny. You should be in stand up with comedy timing like that! If you read my original post,... I said that I've read the press om the raids last year, but never actually heard Henry speak on the issue,.. which I thought may be of interest to some...
Californiaman Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Hahhaaa,..very funny. You should be in stand up with comedy timing like that! If you read my original post,... I said that I've read the press om the raids last year, but never actually heard Henry speak on the issue,.. which I thought may be of interest to some... It's all good man. I was just fooling around. There's been several good interviews with Henry on the subject.
Unionman Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Have ya'll hear this interview? I had only read the press on the factory raids last year. Interesting... I wasn't aware the right-wingers were trying to twist this incident to their own advantage until recently, but it doesn't surprise me. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/opinion/are-guitar-makers-an-endangered-species.html?ref=loggingindustry 'The Gibson case has attracted attention far beyond the noisy agitations of the right — not because the actions of the federal government were wrong, but because the future of North American guitar making will be in peril if problematic aspects of environmental law are not resolved. Those of us who care about the craft that made the American guitar one of the most desirable instruments in the world are watching the Obama administration closely. And we have reason to be hopeful. After all, this is the president who, with his wife, shortly after taking office, gave Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, France’s first lady, a Gibson Hummingbird acoustic guitar as a gift of friendship.'
zigzag Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 78, you should have been on this forum right after the second raid. I'm sure you would be interested in reading the threads from that period. Might be worth your while to find them.
milod Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I don't think it's so much a matter of "right wing," but of anyone who has concerns about interpretation of laws and regulation that is damaging to American jobs and puts them at risk with little or no public interest counterbalance. If they're polluting the river other than when they were flooded out, zap 'em. Etc., etc. But do it recognizing they should have the right to defend themselves too. The problem with a lotta federal agencies is how they tend to work without real oversight. As in this case, they end up functioning as judge, jury and then sheriff to capture cash from their targets. There's no real defense or appeal. Another one is how "anti" folks can destroy a company, community and/or people they don't like by gaming the system - and that's a totally non-political issue I've seen in action. That said, I think the bureaucrats are largely into this for something else. But to me it's wrong, wrong, wrong not to either press charges or give back the computers and woods impounded from Gibson. If there's a real case of wrongdoing worth damaging hundreds and hundreds of jobs, hang 'em. If not, help 'em. I'll add that the NYT piece ignores any potential of error in the Gibson case and would, in fact, apparently to me make imported guitars as illegal as the govt. claims the woods they "took" from Gibson. So... who's helped? m
martinh Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 The problem with a lotta federal agencies is how they tend to work without real oversight. As in this case, they end up functioning as judge, jury and then sheriff to capture cash from their targets. There's no real defense or appeal. Close, Milod . In fact, the State Administrative Procedure Acts and various federal equivalents almost always grant a right to a judicial determination of the correctness of agency action that affects a property right. The problem is the standard of review that the courts must utilize, which is deferential to the agency on findings of fact (which is sometimes bad) and may defer to an agency's "longstanding interpretation of a statute or the agency's own rules and regulations" which is sometimes very bad. All I can say in defense is that the Court system would need to be at least twice its present size if all agency decisions were made at a judicial level, and I see very little appetite for that among critics of the agency system for an expanded judiciary. Further, there are some regulatory matters that are so specialized that you really don't want your average district judge deciding them......
milod Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Seriously though... If I can complain in court before a judge about a $5 parking ticket, and possibly have it dismissed, it seems "wrong" that I can have my business functionally destroyed without functional recourse. Again, we're not talking about something that a photo of nasties going into a waterway can make self evident. The idea of "regulatory agencies" having such power is almost incredible to me. E.g., I'm watching the cost of a rural bridge jump from roughly $90,000 to probably five to six times that amount after three years because of wading through the paperwork. Meanwhile it's a good thing the folks who live there have 4wd vehicles and are used to driving in horrid conditions because the "detour" is a joke I wouldn't care to take in my Jeep. m
Unionman Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 78, you should have been on this forum right after the second raid. I'm sure you would be interested in reading the threads from that period. Might be worth your while to find them. I'll look for those. I recognize the need to protect the environment. As I work in accounting, I also recognize the need to document as much as possible and am 'pro-audit' (vital). The 'passport' idea for artisans from the NYT article sounds like a good one.
fl00dsm0k3 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 i better not say anything stupid or this is going to get deleted
martinh Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Yea Guitarest. Whatever the full facts, (which are, of course, strongly in dispute and likely unknown to all commentators including me) I'm just personally very disappointed by Henry J's decision to resort to a political campaign first and stoke "no more Gibson, sky is falling, evil government conspiracy" hysteria rather than work through the legal process. I've no idea what Henry J's political sympathies were prior to these events. I'd love to beleive that he is just making a devil's bargin, but I must admit that I'm a bit leery of buying another new Gibson (I bought a 335 last year) until I know what I might be supporting.
Unionman Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 The political alignment by the CEO is illuminating. I research the companies I am considering purchasing from.
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