voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hello Epiphone users, I bought a guitar on ebay a couple of weeks ago from a trusted seller who was selling an Epiphone, he didn't know it was a black beauty at all, he just knew it was an epiphone. He told me that the guitar was bought in 1999 used and that he needed the money urgently, he was selling the guitar along with a peavey amp. I bought the guitar only at quite a fair price. I got today the guitar and I saw many things that are wrong with this guitar, as you can see in this pictures. The position of the pots seem to be ok for me since I did a comparison between my Gibson and this Epiphone. I really don't know if it looks legit, but I do have in mind its an "old" guitar and many things might have changed in between the 90's epiphones and the modern epiphones. Now, this is the thing that automatically made me think its a fake, I did a comparison of headstocks between my epiphone acoustic and my Black Beauty and that bump seems to be very suspicious. The truss rod cover its bent and looks like some sloppy work done to the guitar also. now here the pots are really small and I've seen the same pots in many epiphones but I'm not sure if it should be like that. Here is another picture. Now I don't know but i've seen many BB with some sloppy work also, but there are some pictures that make me think its a fake, I just need to confirm my suspicions with you guys, hope you don't mind. The sound of the guitar its great and the weight its like the weight of a regular epiphone guitar. The pictures of the guy on ebay were not that suspicious and that's why I tought I was dealing with a legit epi. Oh and another thing, the back of the headstock has a stamp saying used and the serial number was erased there are some parts of the serial number that you can see, and it looks legit since the letter ain't bigger than the numbers. Thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Judging by those pictures - especially the tuner placement, the electrics, headstock logo, too many ply's in the binding, the volute, I'm leaning towards fake - can you cut away some of the body wall in the cavity to expose the wood, let's see what you've got there. Where's Pete when you need him? Edit; looking in that control cavity - do I see MDF?? I'd love to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Judging by those pictures - especially the tuner placement, the electrics, headstock logo, too many ply's in the binding, the volute, I'm leaning towards fake - can you cut away some of the body wall in the cavity to expose the wood, let's see what you've got there. Where's Pete when you need him? Edit; looking in that control cavity - do I see MDF?? I'd love to know. It sure doesnt look like wood, does it? Pretty sloppy if you ask me. And the logo angle looks odd as well. By 1999, the logo should be on an angle of about 10 degrees (give or take). This logo appears to be at about a -3 degree angle. Through 1997 the logos were straight across the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've had a number of Epi's, new and used, Korean and Chinese. Bent truss rod covers are not rare, as are replacement jacks. The 4 knobs are aftermarket, also commonly done. Your BB has mini-pots, which Epiphone used to use, along with the older style tuners. All this is normal on a 10 year old guitar. The bump at the neck/headstock is a volute, not sure if Epi's had those in the old days. Don't remember. That would be the one thing that would make me question the authenticity. Older Korean Epi's had different specs, were contracted out to various factories. The current Chinese Epi's are made in an Epi-owned factory; quality and specs are much more consistent, which was one of their motivations for moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've had a number of Epi's, new and used, Korean and Chinese. Bent truss rod covers are not rare, as are replacement jacks. The 4 knobs are aftermarket, also commonly done. Your BB has mini-pots, which Epiphone used to use, along with the older style tuners. All this is normal on a 10 year old guitar. The bump at the neck/headstock is a volute, not sure if Epi's had those in the old days. Don't remember. That would be the one thing that would make me question the authenticity. Older Korean Epi's had different specs, were contracted out to various factories. The current Chinese Epi's are made in an Epi-owned factory; quality and specs are much more consistent, which was one of their motivations for moving. I just saw on another thread this http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/79628-volute/ another black beauty with volute this time a modern one. My question is, should I return it? The pot cavity its real wood, its just that the camera shows a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Pete R. knows about the layers of binding which look wrong to me (pretty sure 7 ply is wrong) so lets wait on that one. The tuner washers on top of the binding is a pretty sure sign. Even if mini pots were stock, IMO (hungarycat) that's not a Epi factory wiring job, see the way the caps are wired. I'd still like to see a pic of the cavity wall after it's been cut clean with a razor knife to see the material and please throw in one of the back of the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Pete R. knows about the layers of binding which look wrong to me (pretty sure 7 ply is wrong) so lets wait on that one. The tuner washers on top of the binding is a pretty sure sign. Even if mini pots were stock, IMO (hungarycat) that's not a Epi factory wiring job, see the way the caps are wired. I'd still like to see a pic of the cavity wall after it's been cut clean with a razor knife to see the material and please throw in one of the back of the headstock. The high-res pics at both ZZ Sounds and Dolphin music have 7 layer binding on the headstock as well as the washers touching the binding FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Here are 2 more pictures as requested. I tried my best to do clear it, and it looks like I did a horrible job, but I hope that you can see what you guys asked for now the only thing that I can read from the serial number is the first letter and the last number, It starts with a U and ends with a 2 I don't know why the serial was erased but a USED stamp was placed over it. I hope this is helpful to you guys, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Looks OK to me. Pete R will no doubt give a more educated response than mine. And why would someone go to the trouble of making a fake and then stamping it as a 2nd? I've not heard of this happening before. The cosmetics around the nut could be the reason it is a 2nd. EDit to add: removing the serial number, or putting a sticker over it, then marking the guitar used, is Epi's way of marking seconds. Usually these have small cosmetic defects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A "Used" stamp is different than a second. The "Used" stamp generally means the guitar passed inspection and was shipped to a dealer, but was then returned for some reason --- faulty wiring, a loose fret, or some other problem which can be corrected, but the guitar can no longer be sold as new, so it is stamped "Used" and there is no warranty on it. A "2nd," on the other hand is identified with some minor flaw (usually cosmetic) that doesn't affect playability before leaving the factory, but it is stamped 2nd and sold at a lower price, usually with warranty still in effect. Sometimes the flaw can be found --- a hazy spot on the finish, a hair or mark under the clearcoat, some discolored binding, etc., but other times is very difficult to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 It is legit, IMO Never seen a faked 'used' stamped Epi. There have been other or different 'standards' back in the time when they were made at so many different factories. Did the seller mention that is is a 'used' ? if no - I would send it back - regardless how much you paid... yes he did. So it is very likely that the guitar is a legit black beauty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I doubt a fake would have a USED stamp...the counterfeiter wouldn't bother front of headstock looks like late 90s to me how does it play / sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep ! "The older korean models are better than the new chinese or even Indonesian made guitars" This statement ^^ gets a new view..... Yes indeed, I'm happy that its not a fake, I wonder if a regular les paul pickguard will fit the guitar, after that I'll put a bigsby to it. maybe ill change the whole wiring and pickups. This guitar was a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voughtrazer Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I doubt a fake would have a USED stamp...the counterfeiter wouldn't bother front of headstock looks like late 90s to me how does it play / sound? sounds awesome, the feeling is great, the fat neck its also awesome. Sounds like a strat in the middle pickup. It's a keeper for me, and it's my third Epiphone. it just needs some mods and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep ! "The older korean models are better than the new chinese or even Indonesian made guitars" This statement ^^ gets a new view..... Interesting...........I thought real as well...........So, to the O.P., congrats................. It's a shame that's there so many fake Epis out there; It makes buying genuine older Korean Epis a pain...........( Any used Epis actually..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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