hbpatter83 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 This seller say's ( if I do his arithmetic right) that a 19 year old Les Paul is considered vintage. He say's it's a 92 and that in three years it will be vintage. I think this vintage thing gets a little out of hand.. although I guess it can be a good sales tool..as he apparently does. Also, do I see a mix of gold and nickel hardware? Or is it the light? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230303616714&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=170273133893&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget&_trksid=p284.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BIA%26itu%3DIA%252BUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKingN Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 It looks like gold bridge was added later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I know that many years ago, when I was a teen, a car that was 19 years old qualified as antique... but I don't know about guitars.... Good Question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 imo 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Age alone does not define "vintage", age alone does define "antique". Antique and vintage means two completely different things. "antique" is mearly a description of age, anything, once a certain age, is antique. To be "vintage" there must be other criteria met. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines "vintage" used as an adjective as: "of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality". A '92 LP meets none of these requirements. There was a previous thread on the subject of defining "antique" as it related to musical instruments. Hey, imagine that, I quoted the dictionary definition in that one too: http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1530 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 /chuckle I KNEW some one would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 It's very simple: a guitar becomes "vintage" when some shark lists it on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV-Zeppelin Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I don't know... I think for something to be "vintage" it has to be collectible. ie. ORIGINAL Slash signature LPs (only 75 made back in the 90s and Slash got two), original 50s Pauls, limited edition finishes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 ... I think for something to be "vintage" it has to be collectible. OK' date=' so here is the definition of "collectible": (from the same dictionary) Collectible (noun)- "a cultural object other than an antique or such traditionally collectible item such as stamps, coins, or works of art that is the subject of fancier interest". So musical instruments can certainally fit into this catogory if they meet the "fancier interest" stipulation. Vintage: "of old, recognized, and [b']enduring interest[/b], importance, or quality". Collectible: "a cultural object other than an antique or such traditionally collectible item such as stamps, coins, or works of art that is the subject of fancier interest". The common word used in both definitions is INTEREST. In the guitar world that means market value, or the price someone will actually pay for it. So that makes it easy to distill these definitions down to how they apply to guitars. Antique: An old guitar that nobody will pay squat for. Vintage: An old guitar that people are willing to pay too much for. Collectible: Any guitar that people will pay too much for. OR Just because a guitar is rare does not make it collectible. Just because a guitar is old does not make it vintage. Just because because a guitar is an antique does not make it vintage or collectible. I think that sums it up nicely, don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjimdom Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Just because a guitar is rare does not make it collectible. Just because a guitar is old does not make it vintage. Just because because a guitar is an antique does not make it vintage or collectible. I think that sums it up nicely' date=' don't you. [/quote'] Sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Larry, that has to be one of the best posts in the whole forum. Really, very well put together and explained, I think it is all clear now for most of us (which is great, I've tried to explain that to guys around here many times, to no avail... now I'm sure I can, if you dont mind me quoting you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdamerx Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I was a bit of a nerd and looked up the definitions on a dictionary site, and this was the only definition to vintage that didn't have to do with wine, although could you compare a vintage guitar with that of a vintage wine? Possibly! Vintage-"representing the high quality of a past time" Antique-"of or belonging to the past; not modern" What I can gather from the difference between the two definitions is this, vintage can be a antique, but an antique can't be vintage. Just because it is "of belonging to the past" doesn't mean it "represents the high quality of a past time".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Maybe it's because of my age, but I just can't consider a guitar "vintage" unless it's from the 60's or earlier. It just sounds wierd to say "vintage 80's or 90's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epinder Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Also' date=' do I see a mix of gold and nickel hardware? Or is it the light?[/quote'] He states in his ad that hardware was installed by GC: "Heritage cherry sunburst vintage Gibson hardware and trim professionally installed at Guitar Center" Sounds kinda like one of those oxymoron statements. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 TechnicallyLes Paul "vintage" years are considered to be 1950-1969... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnight sun Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 L5Larry is spot on. A true vintage Gibson are the ones made before the Norlin era. During those years, very few were made each year with very good materials and workmanship. After Norlin took over, they were producing many, many thousands guitars a year and production grew as years went by. This said, when there are fewer available from the 50's and 60's, prices will just go up. Also, tone quality of those guitars is just a different class. I remember in the 70's when the new LPs from Norlin came out. They looked really nice so lots of us went to buy them and found out that the sound is not up to par. Most my musician friends went running to pawnshops looking to buy Gibsons from the 50's and 60's. Anything from the 80's or 90's will never increase in value like those old ones. Their value will depend on the condition, sound quality and the relative price of a new model. Having said that, I am sad to say that I have sold all my pre-Norlin LP's except for a MM and a SG and am stuck with 15 Norlin era Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 A guitar becomes "vintage" when some old fart brings it to a guitar show and attempts to charge twice (or more) of what it's really worth. And - there's a not so fine line between "vintage" and "old crap!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuaLeaD Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Well all I have to say is "Hat's off!" to L5Larry for making sure we don't put rectangles into squares and square pegs into round holes ;) Very informative.... I was wondering myself. FYI: I laugh at almost everything from the 90s, for that matter....Though guitars may be the only exception. I'm just glad the Les Paul out-lived Crystal Pepsi!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 An antique (Latin: antiquus; old) is an old collectible item. It is collected or desirable because of its age, rarity, condition, utility, or other unique ... Maybe an original LP 59..... A 19yr old guitar....No I have shirts with more service than that! Flight959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV-Zeppelin Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Well thanks L5Larry for the awesome definition. You definitely summed it up way better than I did... and yes I do understand that vintage and collectible are two different things. thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossroadsnyc Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 While I am apprehensive about admitting this in public, I have a bit of an interest in antique's - particularly furniture and silverware. Technically speaking - this holds true for auctions as well as in any form of transaction - something is not an "antique" until it reaches the age of 100 years. There are no "antique" Les Pauls - not even the man himself. Vintage is more of a marketing tool than anything. It's a way for generations to define what they hold dear to their particular generation. It's not a bad thing - it helps us to all remember the "good old days". If you grew up wanting a Les Paul in the 1980's but were perhaps too young to buy one on your own (like me for example), then you could very well think of buying a 1980's Les Paul as a "vintage" guitar. It all depends on where you come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Antique is 20 years for a car. As far as legally buying antique plates go. Guitars have been around longer than cars, so you can do the math there. "CLASSIC" is a word that can piss me off. Peavey built a solid state pre amp, tube power amp 50 watt amp in the early 70's and called it a Classic. There was nothing "classic" about it. Later, they introduced the Peavey Classic 50 which was a fan cooled 4;EL84 power tube, 3 12AX7 pre amp tube amp, along with the Classic 30, which also had EL84's, and was about as "CLASSIC" as any other new product with fake tweed. Not at all. Now that most Peavey products are coming out of China, including mixers, I look for the Classic Series amps to be next. Hartley simply does not care. Granted, some people liked those amps, but they were not "CLASSIC" in any way. But vintage would have to be in the eye of the beholder. I would argue 30 years is vintage. I own a 1933 Gibson A-00 mandolin. Surely that is vintage. But what about the Norlin "The SG". It's a 1979. Almost 30........ It's vintage to me....... Best to ya. Murph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Maybe it's because of my age' date=' but I just can't consider a guitar "vintage" unless it's from the 60's or earlier. It just sounds wierd to say "vintage 80's or 90's". [/quote'] Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. One thing though. When I saw that my '81 Gibson Sonex was listed as a "vintage" guitar (see http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/sonex.php) it convinced me to finally fix and clean it up. The price for a decent one is up there (see Sonex on Ebay). But if you ask me, I don't consider it to be vintage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 TechnicallyLes Paul "vintage" years are considered to be 1950-1969... depends on how uppity you are. the first "other" forum says 1952-1960 only.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossroadsnyc Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Antique is 20 years for a car. As far as legally buying antique plates go. Guitars have been around longer than cars, so you can do the math there. Cars are sort of a different breed due to design life. It depends on the state you live in (and even the country), but yes, 20 years is average (can range from 15-30 years). The difference though is really in the design life, meaning the 20-25 years average is double the life expectancy of the automobile to begin with, which is what makes it rare (particularly in good condition). So yeah, guitars have been around a lot longer, but the design life is completely different so you can't make a real comparison between a guitar and an automobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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