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j45nick

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First off, other than my old J-45 that I bought used in a music store in 1966 ($50), I've never bought a guitar from a music store.

 

My wife and I were down in Palm Beach for lunch with a nephew today, and the Guitar Center store was just a few miles down the road, so it was barely out of the way. The had a modest but representative selection of Gibsons--a couple of J-45's, a couple of AJ's, etc, as well as a lot of Martins and a lot of Taylors.

 

I tried a couple of J-45s and an AJ, and was stunned. They sounded like absolute crap. The old "stuffed full of socks" analogy came to mind. I've never heard strings so dead in my life--at least I hope it was just the strings. The Taylors at least sounded "Taylor-like", which actually sounded a heck of a lot more interesting (if a bit tinny) compared to the Gibsons. To top it off, none of the Gibsons was even remotely in tune, and without a tuner at hand, it was difficult to know if you were even close to pitch.

 

 

I know they have a lot of dreamers coming in to "play" the guitars, but surely you could change the strings once a month or so. And maybe you could tune them every day or so. There were a number of staff in the store, and not many customers. How hard can it be to tune a few guitars or change strings on a regular basis?

 

No wonder people try Gibsons at GC and think they are lousy guitars!

 

I don't like to bad-mouth anyone in this business, but the truth hurts. It doesn't matter how good the guitars are that come out of Bozeman if they are going to be presented for sale in that condition.

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I know what you mean, Nick. But the truth is, most of those idiots that work there are really not knowledgeable at all on the instruments that they sell. They probably couldn't change the strings if they had to! In my experience, everytime I go into a GC I know a helluva lot more about instruments and music than those employed there. You would think that GC would only hire employees who are well-versed on the products that they're selling. I mean hire a piano player to sell pianos and organs. Hire a drummer to sell drums. And hire an experienced guitar player to sell guitars! It's almost like walking into a Lowe's Home Improvement store and asking one of those idiots where the left-hand screwdrivers are! [scared]

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.

So true.

 

There's a GC in the Chicago area I get into at least once a year when visiting relatives. I've bought a couple of electrics from them. They have a nice climate controlled acoustic room. I always find the Gibsons just as you have said. Any of the guitars (other manufacturers included) that have been hanging more than a 3 or 4 months have strings on them that just don't ring. Not even close to a good place to check out acoustic guitars unless you're just gonna look.

 

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Ive only had one experience with GC when visting NYC couple years ago. Very uninspiring experience, esepecially comapared to shops like Rudys, Mandolin Bros and in particular Umanov guitars, where I bought my Bird. Actually i can definitely tell you each of instrument specialist at Umanov knows how to play as I had a bit of a golden moment there when buying the Bird.

 

There was an Autistic gentlemen there, who regularly hung out in the store, sort of like Rainman. Knows every piece of music trivia on the planet. He started humming the melody to Funky Town. Suddenly head of bass guitars starting playing the bassline, the head of electics began playing lead and head of acoustics began strumming the tune ... all impro and out of the blue. Golden moment !

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Ive only had one experience with GC when visting NYC couple years ago. Very uninspiring experience, esepecially comapared to shops like Rudys, Mandolin Bros and in particular Umanov guitars, where I bought my Bird. Actually i can definitely tell you each of instrument specialist at Umanov knows how to play as I had a bit of a golden moment there when buying the Bird.

 

There was an Autistic gentlemen there, who regularly hung out in the store, sort of like Rainman. Knows every piece of music trivia on the planet. He started humming the melody to Funky Town. Suddenly head of bass guitars starting playing the bassline, the head of electics began playing lead and head of acoustics began strumming the tune ... all impro and out of the blue. Golden moment !

 

Now that sounds like the right kind of guitar store!

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2 years ago I walked into Guitar Center Greensboro,NC .I tried an AJ that sounded terrific even with strings that probably had been on the guitar for 12-months are more. I knew because of the manufacture date. The guitar was stunning in the wood for the top. I bought it , took it home and the next day noticed I could slide a piece of paper about a 1/4" under the bridge. I took the guitar back and they got me a replacement within five days. I almost kept the first guitar in spite of the bridge due to the fact the guitar was so great looking and sounding. I know that Guitar Center may not be the best place to buy but most guitar shops I go to the guitars have strings on the guitars that are probably factory installed. The day I bought the AJ I also tried a J-45 that was dull sounding that is why I bought the AJ. I think the nature of the mahogany is that they need to be played before you can wake up the sound. I have 2- J45's and if I don't play one for several months it takes some playing to bring back the sound it expect from it. It would be nice to play a new guitar with new strings every time but often old strings may tell the true character of a guitar. Just my 2 cents.

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I imagine it is kind of a catch22 deal. I don't know what they pay the staff there, but surely finding good help seems to be a problem.

 

And another thing I notice, is there seems to be a lot of "kids" that are the staff. They don't exactly have a work ethic-or a developed sense of responsibility. It would be great for all if the "men" could teach the younger "kids" how to be men, but to be fair, I don't see GC as being able to attract the cream of the crop for employees, and must be a challenge for those who have to work with what they can get.

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That sort of business practice or policy is doing neither Guitar Center or Gibson any favors. Difficult to bring NEW BLOOD to the Gibson side when the only audition is a collection of neglected instruments. It's to my understanding that Taylor (don't know about Martin) strings their guitars with coated Elixers that can stand the test time, and holds up to the mass playing.

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I imagine it is kind of a catch22 deal. I don't know what they pay the staff there, but surely finding good help seems to be a problem.

 

And another thing I notice, is there seems to be a lot of "kids" that are the staff. They don't exactly have a work ethic-or a developed sense of responsibility. It would be great for all if the "men" could teach the younger "kids" how to be men, but to be fair, I don't see GC as being able to attract the cream of the crop for employees, and must be a challenge for those who have to work with what they can get.

 

 

That's a fair comment. But it was almost an embarrassment as a devoted Gibson player to discover guitars that really sounded terrible representing the "best" that Gibson can do as far as the average consumer is concerned. I felt like telling the couple of guys in the acoustic room who were A-B'ing guitars that this really wasn't what a Gibson sounds like.

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That's a fair comment. But it was almost an embarrassment as a devoted Gibson player to discover guitars that really sounded terrible representing the "best" that Gibson can do as far as the average consumer is concerned. I felt like telling the couple of guys in the acoustic room who were A-B'ing guitars that this really wasn't what a Gibson sounds like.

 

 

"Disappointing" is the feeling. They probably pay on the McDonalds system with all the kids on 'not much' and getting valuable experience in how to make you cross!

 

 

On a bright note (so to speak!), that ragged guitar may polish up real special.

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

P.S. You went on a quiet time. These type of shops can go off on a Saturday morning.

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Nick,,, your not the only one to notice some of the Gibson Guitars voices to be dull.. Ive come accross a few my self.. I think a few others noticed those as well... they have been hanging up now for quite some time.. Im not sure what the problem is.. J200s that had less Volume than j45s.. comes to mind..

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Nick,,, your not the only one to notice some of the Gibson Guitars voices to be dull.. Ive come accross a few my self.. I think a few others noticed those as well... they have been hanging up now for quite some time.. Im not sure what the problem is.. J200s that had less Volume than j45s.. comes to mind..

 

Might the problem be that they haven't been played a lot, but just left hanging on the wall? If they don't get played, they won't open up, even if you're there for some time. And if the strings are old, getting them to open up will take all the more effort. I don't think that this rule only applies to the hog guitars. If a J200 has been sleeping for a week, why would it be loud when it first finally gets picked up? I've never used a tonrite, so can't comment on their effectiveness, but I note the theory behind their development, and what the good people here say (including several who were sceptical but acknowledged a difference on use of one). I also note the constant undercurrent here advising regular play to ensure best tone. I certainly notice that my fantastic Woody has its off days occasionally, sometimes because of humidity changes I think, but also when I've not been able to take it out for a while due to work, kids or travel. The cool thing is that with the exception of a popped high E, it's still got the strings on that it came with in March, and yet it still sounds monstrously good when the humidity is getting closer to the optimal 45, and when it's been getting regular, sustained play. The latter really is the key, since as our house shifts from 60 towards 45 dampercent, the guitar goes through various stages of good sound - all of them a joy for me, but different from each other. How many GC customers actually make a beeline for the Gibson acoustics?

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Might the problem be that they haven't been played a lot, but just left hanging on the wall? If they don't get played, they won't open up, even if you're there for some time. And if the strings are old, getting them to open up will take all the more effort. I don't think that this rule only applies to the hog guitars. If a J200 has been sleeping for a week, why would it be loud when it first finally gets picked up? I've never used a tonrite, so can't comment on their effectiveness, but I note the theory behind their development, and what the good people here say (including several who were sceptical but acknowledged a difference on use of one). I also note the constant undercurrent here advising regular play to ensure best tone. I certainly notice that my fantastic Woody has its off days occasionally, sometimes because of humidity changes I think, but also when I've not been able to take it out for a while due to work, kids or travel. The cool thing is that with the exception of a popped high E, it's still got the strings on that it came with in March, and yet it still sounds monstrously good when the humidity is getting closer to the optimal 45, and when it's been getting regular, sustained play. The latter really is the key, since as our house shifts from 60 towards 45 dampercent, the guitar goes through various stages of good sound - all of them a joy for me, but different from each other. How many GC customers actually make a beeline for the Gibson acoustics?

 

I remember when a couple J200s were unopened at the store from a year ago... They were dull right out of the Box.. Those are the ones still hanging today.. as for the J45s... Im not sure what happened.. But they do sound a little flat.. 4 out of 5 hanging are that way... This is a good topic... ,, Im very familiar with how these are suppose to sound... Ive owned many... Something has killed the tone on these... the ones in the store are at a constant 44% Humidity and its up to par on the heat range.. Its just seems something was either added, Or alot was takin away... just not sure... the so called TV 45s are the way they sounded back in the early 90s..

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GC is no different than any of the other big box stores. The goal is volume and margin, in reality it does not matter to the owners if they are selling guitars, washing machines or lumber, it's a big box model. Capture market share and pump out the high margin stuff. They don't have the inclination to build an educated workforce because of the high employee turnover, even if the paid a little more it won't really change overall sales volume.

 

There are some good GCs, the on 14th Street in Manhattan is very good, however, just across the river the two in Paramus are train wrecks.

 

Both Martin and Taylor have begun to send new guitars out of the factory with coated strings because GC has become their biggest customers and they know where the guitars are headed.

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I had a similar experience recently when i went to pick up my HB TV, from the only authorized dealer in Ireland ( I told this in a LONG post..haha I was excited so, u know)

 

Tried 3 Gibsons while waiting for Bird to be brought out to me. A J185... HB Mc and a HB Historic ( i think..;natural with adjustable bridge )

None sounded good.

All where no where near in tune.

All were hung high on the wall and needed a ladder to be passed down.. given the economic situation here I doubt they had been touched that much..

 

I was worried about what my Bird was gonna sound like.... but once it was brought to me, straight out of it's case it was in a different league; (it was in tune..and had been kept in the case!)

 

This has been the first high end guitar I have ever purchased. If I had been buying that day, and without the wealth of knowledge I have gathered here, I probably would have went for a different brand, seeing as my guitar had been ordered specifically. And maybe I would have been left with a bad taste in my mouth concerning Gibsons ( and joined the AGF [crying] or Martin forum: Im still gassin for a Martin tho )

 

So yes Nick.... I for one can see why people are maybe getting a bad impression of Gibsons, and it's obviously not just GC.

 

Last thought

 

Maybe in times past when it was mainly mom and pop/small local stores where you would purchase your guitar, and they had been taken care of...tuned...played..kept in relatively small spaces and not theses big open stores we see today... and given a chance to open up more. The true nature of these hand made, each unique to themselves, instruments, is allowed to come through and the experience is wholly more generic ( if thats the correct term )

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I live in Canada.... I dont think we have a GC yet... but we do have Good ole Yorkville... the Monopoly company.. we dont have Life time guarantees, only a 1 year .. and you pretty much get what they get.. in most cases.. whats on the rack is what you get..

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Are you sure?.. I'm under the impression there are caveats being outside the States.. but Gibson would be true to the guarantee if returned to an authorized dealer.

 

 

Oh Im sure... Once Yorkville gets the Guitars... it becomes a Yorkville Law.. and Gibson washes there hands of the items.. we have No direct link to Yorkville.. its all through these Dealers of the Guitars... they Deal with Yorkville which in turn if they have to... deal with Gibson.. But Yorkville sets the term of Warrantees ion the Gibson Guitars... it stands at 1 year.. Most of the Paper work for warrentee cards are removed before the Guitars hit the dealers.. there are a few they miss... but there still Void..

 

I had a neck go out of whack ( Forward ) on a Super 400 after the year of purchase.. Yorkville will do nothing to help.. been there already.. $14.000 guitar with a $1000.00 repair bill...

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Ive only had one experience with GC when visting NYC couple years ago. Very uninspiring experience, esepecially comapared to shops like Rudys, Mandolin Bros and in particular Umanov guitars, where I bought my Bird. Actually i can definitely tell you each of instrument specialist at Umanov knows how to play as I had a bit of a golden moment there when buying the Bird.

 

There was an Autistic gentlemen there, who regularly hung out in the store, sort of like Rainman. Knows every piece of music trivia on the planet. He started humming the melody to Funky Town. Suddenly head of bass guitars starting playing the bassline, the head of electics began playing lead and head of acoustics began strumming the tune ... all impro and out of the blue. Golden moment !

 

Brilliant, for a laugh me and 2 mates did that in a guitar store here, went in separate, browsing and trying then we all started on the same tune, the staff were fairly amused and we got a good clap for it. We played 'No Diggity' by Blackstreet.

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