charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, after fighting the damn cheap-a$$ plastic/synthetic (stock) nut, on my '60's Tribute, I (finally) got up to my dealer's, to have them install a bone nut! And, again...it's just amazing, what a wonderful difference, it made! No more binding, pinging, at all, when tuning. Much, much smoother (over all)! Looks much better, too...IMHO! So, Gibson...PLEASE stop using those cheap nuts, and go back to Bone or Tusk, etc. Your guitars cost enough...that there's no excuse, to use those cheap nuts! It demeans your (otherwise) wonderful instruments! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Gotta agree, hell its a lot of brands to. Fender nuts are the worst IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't have an issue with synthetic nuts, after all, they have been some sort of plastic since the old days, but I do take issue with their current nuts. Every Gibson I've had needed to have the slots either re-cut, or have the nut changed completely. Current Gibson USA do not stay in tune with these nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's all about the bottom line of course. I spoke to an owner of an extremely popular product that many guitarists use, which would also be a good selling point for a guitar. Gibson did ask how much he would sell them his product. It was dirt cheap compared to the overall price of a guitar. Still Gibson didn't do it. In this economy I doubt they'll go for it now. But maybe they'll save enough money on baked maple to do this. I love Gibsons and every guitar can be improved no matter who builds it. But overall I think companies like PRS and Taylor do a better job at the finer details than Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderGuy1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Gotta agree, hell its a lot of brands to. Fender nuts are the worst IMO. Fender makes good quality nuts! i am a fender squier user and dont have much trouble with my Affinity Strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its Corian and it has worked just fine for me so far, The problem with bone is that is not consistent, that is why there are synthetic substitutes. I should have saved the plastic nut that my $700 Casino came with, it was class action lawsuit worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, all I know is, that every synthetic nut, on every guitar I've had, has the same problems! Once, they're changed, to Bone, or Tusk, etc....the associated problem(s) go away! So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well that is probably because the nut made was made with the string gauge you play. Gibsons come with 0.10's but their nuts seem to be cut for 0.09's, you can ask your tech to widen the slots if you use 0.10's 0.11's etc but once the slots are wider you can't go back to 0.09's. Gibson has no way to know what string gauge you will use. Bone is great but inconsistent, Tusk is great but illegal right? or are you referring to the syntetic Tusq? Don't get me wrong I agree with you in general but if Gibson used bone nuts they would still have to cut them for 0.09's and bone will bind and ping if you set up with 0.10's. When I took my LP and my Exlorer for a setup (only one time each)I asked the tech to dress the nut and he did, problem solved. When i took my SG to the Gibson Restoration shop I gave the same instructions and problem solved. So yea, if you have a nut cut properly for the string gauge you use it will work better than stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't think it is a matter of materiel, but craftsmanship. I suspect this "plek" thingy ain't all it is cracked up to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RandyMan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well that is probably because the nut made was made with the string gauge you play. Gibsons come with 0.10's but their nuts seem to be cut for 0.09's, you can ask your tech to widen the slots if you use 0.10's 0.11's etc but once the slots are wider you can't go back to 0.09's. Gibson has no way to know what string gauge you will use. Bone is great but inconsistent, Tusk is great but illegal right? or are you referring to the syntetic Tusq? Don't get me wrong I agree with you in general but if Gibson used bone nuts they would still have to cut them for 0.09's and bone will bind and ping if you set up with 0.10's. When I took my LP and my Exlorer for a setup (only one time each)I asked the tech to dress the nut and he did, problem solved. When i took my SG to the Gibson Restoration shop I gave the same instructions and problem solved. So yea, if you have a nut cut properly for the string gauge you use it will work better than stock. Just as a point of clarification, I think you mean .010" and .009" when referring to the string diameter (it is in thousandths of an inch). I've never had a problem with inconsistency on bone nuts. Maybe these are isolated problems. Generally, I try to stay away from any kind of plastic, as synthetic plastics seem to be slightly "muddy" sound-wise (could be my hearing, too). As far as the Gibson Company goes, it's genuinely sad that their R&D and design people will probably not read this post and see what some of their diehard, hard-playing disciples are suggesting as genuine improvements to their product. From a manufacturing standpoint, I cannot believe that using any kind of plastic could be enough of a cost savings to justify not using a higher quality material for the nut, given the caliber of instrument they laud in their advertising. But that's just my opinion . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, if the nuts are cut for 9's, but they always use 10's, as their "standard," then they're "screwing the pooch," to begin with...causing their own problems, so to speak. I've never had nut problems, when they're cut for 10's or 11's, and when I've chosen to use 9's or even 8's, with bone nuts. :unsure: In several cases, previously, I've had the nut slots filed more open, and the string still bound, and pinged, probably because the base wasn't smooth enough? Not sure...ALL I can "testify" to, is MY own experiences, and they just don't support continued use, of the current synthetic "standard" for Gibson's string nut. But, Gibson will do, what it wants, regardless. I'm only appealing them, to change. I cannot order it. LOL CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, I'm hardly the only one, here, that loves the benefits, of "bone" or other nuts, in preference to what Gibson currently uses. We've had similar discussions, quite often, in threads, about tuning stability...the "nut" vs. the machine heads. I've had a bad machine head, ONE TIME, in 40 years. I have a guitar (my '54 J-160E) which still has the original machine heads, on it. Although tight, They work fine, still. Never slip, etc. It too, has an original "bone" nut! No pinging or binding. I'm not saying no one else, has had different experiences, either. Just that, "in my opinion," Gibson is doing itself a disservice, by continued use, of a material, that so many other's have complained about, as long as I've been a member, of this forum. On Both, the Gibson, and Epiphone forums! I too, cannot believe the cost of a "bone" (or, other "better") nut, would be such, that it's impractical to use, on today's instruments, at any price point. But, that's just me, and few other's here, I guess? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Anyway, take it, for what it's worth. LOL I've been complaining for years, about ALL SG's not having decent beveling, and tapered horns, too! That one has to pay CS prices, to get an SG made the way they were, traditionally, from the beginning. Haven't succeded, yet, in getting anyone to listen to that, much less change it! LOL! So...I'll just keep "choppin'," away, I guess? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Actually, BONE could be a lot more expensive for Gibson to use than it is for us. You have to consider the paperwork involved, CITIES, LACEY, etc. And then, they have to fill it out CORRECTLY. We all know how that can go. Perhaps the whole idea of the PLEK machine is plausible deny-ability? They don't talk. Sheesh, I hope they don't get in trouble in the next raid when they steal the computers and read this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Actually, BONE could be a lot more expensive for Gibson to use than it is for us. You have to consider the paperwork involved, CITIES, LACEY, etc. And then, they have to fill it out CORRECTLY. We all know how that can go. Perhaps the whole idea of the PLEK machine is plausible deny-ability? They don't talk. Sheesh, I hope they don't get in trouble in the next raid when they steal the computers and read this stuff. Why would there be any requirements for bone to be used it's not a controlled substance and last time I looked we had cows of our own here in America so I don't see that it would be a hard item to get. And I agree 100% - I hate plastic nut's and the first thing I change out on guitars is the nut, changing it to bone on most electric's and either Fossilized Ivory or even pre-ban ivory on high end acoustics. Bone nuts are also quick and easy to make so I usually cut a couple for each guitar in different string gauges just in case I want to change it sometime. The only issue with bone is it smells unbelievably bad when your cutting or sanding on it. That's the main thing that I dislike about building acoustics, between the hide glue and bone work it's a smell that could make maggots throw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If you lube your nuts really well the back and forth motion they are subjected to while being played will be smooth and easy. Even if your nut is cut for a smaller gauge string. I put flat wounds 12's on my Johnny A. and my ES 339 that both came with 10's and had no problem. Lubed nuts are happy nuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't think I am getting my point across, but that's fine. Here is the thing, bone nuts will still bind and ping if not cut properly, just talking from my own experience. Bone is naturally inconsistent, regardless of anybody's experience, what I mean by inconsistent is that one stick of bone can be great while the next can have softer spots. A bone nut can have soft spots, you can easily tell when you are filing your own nut, hard on one slot and butter on the next, that can't be good. I do like "selected" bone nuts better but for a mass-production setup? adding another step of control quality? bloody unlikely! but...my American Stratocaster did came with bone nut from factory and it is pretty solid even with tremolo use so it can be done. When I bought my Historic a couple of years ago I thought I would replace the Nylon 6/6 nut with bone right away but I haven't and I am not. I do find it strange that this is what Gibson used in the 50's...it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I guess, in my case, I just got tired of dealing with the stock nut, and all it's problems! Some other's of you don't seem to have those issues. That's great! But, as I entered my dealer's shop area, where the Luthier works, he was installing a "bone" nut, on someone else's Les Paul, for exactly the same reason(s). He told me, he does this a LOT, on Gibson's. Less so, on other brands, but... even that is not uncommon. At any rate, I'm delighted, with what he's done, for me, that way, on the last 3 guitars I've taken to him, for nut replacements. Maybe I'm not so much "hung up," on "bone" nuts, as I am "fed up," with the stock versions. LOL To me, the sound is more open, with a "bone" nut, too. But, maybe I'm "dreaming?" CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 What I meant by "opening up," the sound/tone, was it transferred string vibration better, and with more sustain, in open chords. I could tell, even unplugged, there was a lot more going on, that way, than with the old stock nut. Wishful thinking? No...I checked it, against two identical guitars, in the store, that still had the stock nuts, and it was confirmed. My "Tribute" had good sustain, to begin with, but it's even better, now. The old stock nut, pinched the strings, and didn't allow for nearly as much "ring," and/or vibration, in the strings in the open chords. Maybe the stock nuts, would be fine, if they were properly cut, but I have yet to see one, that was. Again, just my personal experience. Other's may differ. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bottom line is (to me) is Gibson corian nuts are good once they are dressed properly by a guitar tech to use with the string gauge and action of your choice. Bone is great, yes, arguably better than corian IMO but better make sure the bone nut is made from selected bone, same hardness all the way across the length. A good tech will know especially when filing the nut. A well dressed nut will improve action, tunning and overall sound when playing open chords/strings but so will a graphite nut. By the way I looked at the current specs of American Stratocasters and the nut is listed now as "syntetic bone" which is a fancy name for some fancy plastic. Not a bad thing, like I said before a bone substitute had to be invented because despite of the fact that bone is widely available it is not consistent, making it hard for mass-production. Get this, my Guild acoustic is chinese made, it has bone nut and saddle and both are perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Looks like Graphtech came up with an improved Tusq nut with permanent lubrication embedded. Check it out http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?CategoryID=18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I had to take my factory new 2011 335 in to a lutiher becuse the factory strings, especially the G and D, stuck like crazy in the nut. I could turn the G tuner half a turn with no discernable change in pitch, then PING ! Its possibile to make nuts that don't do this. I expected better from a $2.5-3K instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I had to take my factory new 2011 335 in to a lutiher becuse the factory strings, especially the G and D, stuck like crazy in the nut. I could turn the G tuner half a turn with no discernable change in pitch, then PING ! Its possibile to make nuts that don't do this. I expected better from a $2.5-3K instrument. From Gibsons perspective it is probably a $1.5k - $1.8k instrument, I am sure the dealer mark up is around 40%. Some people suggest the dealer should give a free setup, I think this is a good idea, you could get the action you prefer and have the guitar setup for the string gauge you use, adjust the guitar after it has been sitting in storage and/or transported, etc. That would be ideal but it's not going to happen, I do agree that for the kind of cash that Gibsons sell at retail the guitar should be free of issues and perfectly playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The plastic nut on my squire tele custom was awful. I finally got enough money saved up over christmas to pimp it out so its got a tusq nut, new tuners, pickups and pickguard. Im hoping to replace the bridge as well but I believe the one I ordered was the wrong size and I wont know until I go back home in about 2 or 3 months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 owned plenty of gibsons; never had an issue. maybe you're doing it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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