Old Neil Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hello all, Had a fun day yesterday at one of my local guitar/music shops playing 3 very fine J-45's- 1. A standard J-45 (that turned out to be anything but 'standard' in every way) 2. A True Vintage J-45 (played-in feel and tone) 3. A John Hiatt signature model (some nice detailing and upgraded electronics) I wasn't kicking the tires. I do that often enough at a few shops that I have bought guitars and equipment over the years in and make sure to stop by with a carton of beer at Christmas so I'm welcome in each one B) No,I had gone from a long time of wanting to love the J-45 but, outside of a 5k vintage one, had never been as impressed as I wanted to be by them. That changed over the last year as I had played not one but 3 new standards in that time that I would have been happy to take home. That got my attention but the time wasn't right. Now that I had sold my last guitar it was time for a new adventure in tone. A new standard had come in that had really impressed me - and not just me: The store's main guitar crew were crowing over it and I could see why. One of them had, like me, been indifferent to new standard J-45's over the last 10 years that he had been selling guitars. He said he had personally only sold 10 in that time. "Something changed last year though. Suddenly, every new J-45 that came in was good, very good or great! We even emailed the factory to see if they had changed the spec for the standard J-45 but they denied it." Anyway, some time back I had been very impressed by a J-45 TV but it had sold quickly. This time, as there was already a fine John Hiatt and this new killer standard that had just come in I asked them to order in a TV model so I could do a shoot out and take one home. I would be the only person to play the TV and if I didn't choose it, they could send it straight back. As you can imagine I was literally in 'Hog Heaven' with these three. OK this post is too long already. I will continue later in the thread. Its time for some pics! \:D/ That last one was the bridge from the standard J-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This is like an old-time cliffhanger. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This is like an old-time cliffhanger. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? Red 333 And then along came Jones...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yeah no kidding, edge of my chair here. Please continue! The fretboard on that standard looks sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Actually, I believe that Hiatt is a Tri-Burst. A cherry burst would be like the Paisley (too bad your dealer didn't have one of those in the mix too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hello again, I didn't mean to be coy or secretive. I felt the initial post was long enough for a single post. OK back to the guitars. Firstly let me say that all of them were worthy examples of their breed and more than adequate tools for my meager guitar skills. In the past I have been very lucky to experience a lot of great modern guitars (including several custom orders) from Martin, Collings, Huss and Dalton and Breedlove. My only previous Gibson ownership was a J-200. Those guitars spanned all the usual wood and build spec: Adirondack over old Brazilian; Alpine over EIR, all mahogany, scalloped, forward-shifted bracing, straight bracing and so on. Of course like everyone here I have played many, many more but that is my ownership history. I am relieved to find I have left the search for 'the one' or 'holy grail' and now find myself content to enjoy anything pleasing, new (to me) or unique in some way. The guitars tone signatures: The John Hiatt had a bright 'modern' sound with deep but controlled bass. It didn't have that gutsy low-mid to bass growl like some J-45's (and a lot of Martins)but was very articulate, open and airy. Yes Danner I beleive you are correct in calling that a Tri-burst (not a cherry burst as I named it in the photo). The True Vintage - as perhaps expected - was decidedly more 'old school' with a warmer, deeper, woodier tone that not many new, out-of-the-box guitars possess. It was darker, more of a gunslinger for hire kind of J-45. As smoky and atmospheric as its soft patina, tobacco sunburst and cream binding finish. The Standard was probably the biggest surprise as it was so loud, punchy, bright and deep. On a full-fingered open G chord it could pass for a good (new) rosewood Martin dread but the clear, mountain stream trebles and articulate bass when plucking single notes or playing more softly reminded you that it was of the Gibson blood(sap?)line. Overall it had an open chimey, modern sound with no thuddyness. Some kinds of thuddy/thumpy bass can be desirable but this had new PB EJ 16 strings which while good on many guitars, are probably not the best choice to bring out that part of the spectrum on a new Gibby at least. I will get on to feel, cosmetic appearance and playability in another post as this has become too long again. Yes I did choose one but as I said earlier, it wouldn't have mattered which I took home as they all had their individual charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Actually, I believe that Hiatt is a Tri-Burst. A cherry burst would be like the Paisley (too bad your dealer didn't have one of those in the mix too). I believe tri-burst is the correct term as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 . Interesting write-ups, but I still don't know what you bought. . B) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm thinking he bought the Standard.. but there could be a twist to come, so I am staying tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm enjoying the pace of this review. What's the rush? Looking forward to the next segment.... I agree that he must have bought the Standard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 awww c'mon . this for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 awww c'mon . this for real? Why wouldn't it be for real? Its just done this way for a little light entertainment. I like reading these kind of posts, especially when I am either in a guitar 'drought' period or considering the same models myself. The journey is more important than the result. If much buying and selling has taught me anything is that the journey never 'ends' anywhere anyway so what I chose doesn't matter in the scheme of things and if you were there, you may well have chosen something else. So, The story continues... Feel and playability: The John Hiatt had probably my favorite neck of the bunch as it was a touch beefier - a fuller C-shape than the other two. It is listed as a V neck profile like the TV but they are not the same in your hands. It had a feel of a new guitar but the setup was good and the fit and finish was very good. The TV was the easiest to play. Like its tone, it felt played in a little already. I wasn't a big fan of the (relatively) skinny neck but was expecting it as I had played a J-45 TV about a year before. It is listed as a V neck but its feels more like a shallow D neck in your hands. A very interesting 'feature' was that the strings felt more relaxed at the same scale and tuning as the other two which made it both easy on the fingers to play and was in keeping with its old, played-in guitar vibe. It may have had a lighter gauge of strings (not listed on Gibson site) or simply a better setup but it had the best feel out of the box of the three. The Standard's neck although similar fell somewhere in the middle of the other two. It was a new guitar, no question but not difficult to play. I did not like the glossy finish on the neck. I prefer satin finish necks as they don't get sticky after you've been playing a while. Not sure what the nut was made of either. It looks like it may be graphite/carbon fiber or just a dark type of plastic. Not a fan of plastic saddles(OK 'Tusq' then - it sure looks like a variation of hard plastic to me) and bridge pins either on all these guitars but fortunately they are not expensive upgrades. Shame the whole set couldn't be bone from the factory though, especially for this market segment. Build, Materials and Appearance: The John Hiatt has lovely woods throughout befitting a signature series model. Its Tri-burst is a matter of taste. Nothing wrong with it and for some its unique, stand out from the crowd good looks would appeal. A classy job on that one by Gibson and better than a few other signature models I have seen by them. Even though short scale like the other two it features advanced X bracing like its long-scale cousin the Advanced Jumbo. It also sports an internal miking system upgrade in the form of a Fishman Ellipse Matrix Blend featuring a small goose neck mic in the sound hole along with an under the saddle pickup and more sophisticated controls. The vintage tuners with 'pearl' buttons add a nice visual touch. A little small for the finger under tension though. The TV has a unique 'vintage' bracing patter that while advanced-X like the Hiatt has a different scalloping. Maybe that is why it has a more opened up sound. While it is lighter than the other two as well this is deceptive as they feature electronics while the TV is bare bones 'commando' on that front. Though apparently period-authentic, I didn't care for the tuners. Purists may cringe, but I would prefer all Gibson Montana models feature Waverly or Grover Sta-Tite vintage tuners. They look great, work well and are easy to maintain if need be. Collings does this on all their models and probably get a good bulk rate from the manufacturer so it wouldn't add to the base cost of the guitar all that much. A very nice Adirondack (red spruce) top with the widest grain of the three is a standout feature and whether justified or not, is hailed by many as the holy grail of top tone woods. The Standard (well, OK, this particular example) featured surprisingly exotic wood grades one would normally expect to see on their higher end custom and signature models. Not sure if affects tone one way or the other but its a stand out feature for the eyes at least. The fretboard (pictured in the initial post) and bridge have a fiery, reddish tint in strong lighting that is very appealing. The Sitka top is very even and tightly grained at the center to wider grained at the edges - a text book top. I couldn't say it was a different grade to the Hiatt model. They were both very good examples with almost no visible 'run out' either and nice silking that caught the light. The tuners look and feel solid enough. They may be slightly heavier but look like they still be working long after I have left the planet. I don't care for in-built electrics, especially those quacky, saddle mics so I would prefer the weight/cost saving a not having any. Many people might find it a useful bonus though. Personally I think it takes the guitar away from the traditional Gibson vibe and into Takamine etc territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You got us all here..... really enjoyed the posts so far..... gotta have gone for the Standard .... (edit..was writing as last post came through...haha... not sure now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Decisions, decisions... The John Hiatt was the freshest update to a classic model. I didn't choose it however because its cost was due in part to things I didn't value as much as others might. In particular the upgraded electronics, pearl button tuners, exotic fretboard and bridge woods and Tri-burst color scheme. It did feature my favorite neck of the three however. The TV was the most faithful to the J-45 vintage - well it would want to, it has 'Vintage' right there in the name. I wanted to like it more than I did because of my high impression of the only other one I had ever played. Some intonation issues on the bass string in particular put me off a little too. Some aspect of the bass were the best of the three, others not. Although in the ballpark sound and feel wise it didn't absolutely 'wow' me. Having said that it was a very impressive guitar with the best feel (despite my reservations about the neck) and vintage tone. If price was the same as the standard I would have taken the chance and snapped it up and taken it to a luthier to see if we could fix a few things. Which leaves the Standard. In some parts of the bass it was deeper than the TV and as bright as the John Hiatt in the trebles. It still felt like a tight-ish, new guitar though and didn't have the relaxed, languid feel of the TV. Compared to most standard J-45's I have played though it had a big, loud bark of a tone when played hard but a reverby delicacy when finger picked or played softly. It wasn't as dry and smoky as the vintage but it was darker in places than the Hiatt. The neck was an acceptable compromise between the other two. Icing on the cake was the exotic wood choices on this particular example and top class fit and finish (no glue drips or poor finishing etc) though as mentioned I could do without the gloss finish on the neck. Seeing they were much closer to each other than they were different in most respects - which says a lot for this Standard model - I went with the Standard as it was an exceptional example of its kind and the cost saving was considerable compared to the other two. If I had really been blown away by the difference I would have stretched for it. Hey, I've spent more on guitars in the past. Having sold a guitar last week it was a no-brainer to pick up another good one with cash to spare in my pocket. My son will be pleased as he gets the $400 profit for some emergency cash on his upcoming trip to China and gets to play his old man's new guitar when he gets back. "Everyone's a winner..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 That was a great read, Old Neil. Congrats on your new J-45. ENJOY! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fantastic read. Thanks for the great post(s) Old Neil. I've had very similar experiences in the past. This illustrates why I so often say that it all comes down the individual guitar. It's also why I always like to be able to test drive a potential guitar purchase in person. What a great opportunity to be able to ensure that you were able to take home the cream of the crop. Nice to have a dealer who set up a great audition opportunity for you. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 . Nicely done. Congrats on your new J-45. . B) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fantastic read. So much better than "hey I played 3 different model J45's and bought the standard". However, since you did mention the exotic wood look, you gotta take some pics and post. Otherwise you penned a nice fiction thread. Again, thanks for taking the time to describe your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hey, I went to the shop and I tried three different types of J45s (and a hummingbird) and I came home with the J45 Standard! (18 months ago - I haven't bought another one). It was easy - the J45 Standard sounded the best and I had the fever and wasn't coming back another day. BluesKing777. P.S. Great stories thanks. I bet Em7 is printing them out and marking them in red and blue felt pen! I have purposely kept the black nut and tusq saddle as a kind of experiment to see the diff, but weakened on getting bone pins and now really sick of that plastic sound so soon guess what will happen? (An order to Colosi like everybody else on this forum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fantastic read. So much better than "hey I played 3 different model J45's and bought the standard". However, since you did mention the exotic wood look, you gotta take some pics and post. Otherwise you penned a nice fiction thread. Hi Eyecon, I did post pics at the start of the thread. OK, they are not brilliant as they are from my iPhone built-in camera and its inside but it should be enough to give you the idea. I must say I am a little bemused by some posts questioning whether this story is fiction or not. I don't know why anyone would waste their own time along with everyone elses just for the sake of a guitar thread. So just to set the record straight: All the above story is factual as stated. Of course my opinions about the guitars themselves are my own. I just put my new J-45 down to write this post in fact. I haven't even got around to taking the pick guard plastic off yet (now that's a new guitar!). In other news, I did my first experiment with strings. I put on some GHS Bright Bronze (80/20 copper/zinc alloy). They have less string noise than the the Phosphor Bronze EJ 16's but are still punchy and fresh. I picked up a pack a pack of GHS Vintage Bronze (85/15 copper/zinc) and will try them after I have gotten a proper feel for the Bright Bronze. The store were out of Martin SP 80/20's otherwise I would have bought them as I think they might be a good match for this guitar. Time will tell and I will report back with my subjective findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Something changed last year though. Suddenly, every new J-45 that came in was good, very good or great ! How I enjoyed this highly nuanced 4-step rocket of a tale. Safe landing with a Standard between your hands. I'm sure you knew what you did. The line above intrigued me – tend to agree, , , the later ones are something else. More 'embracing', if you ask me. Now the fun begins – wait 'till about 8 months from now. Let those woods find each other – those edges melt down, , , mix yourself into the blend and don't forget to add a chapter or three here as you go. . . P.S. - those skeptical posters are only kiddin', , , there's a rule here that says pictures or it never happened – I break it all the time. Feel free to do the same. Though sharper pics of the Standard in it's new home would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 P.S. Great stories thanks. I bet Em7 is printing them out and marking them in red and blue felt pen! Now and Ren - And BK777 hehe, , , yea, you never know, but then again no. modoc_333's incredible – almost commando raid-like – mission inside the Bozeman fortress, resulted in an eye witness report from an era now gone. He came out with material most of us could only guess about and had the guts to face Master Ferguson with Q.'s close to the untouchable/classified. That document was, is and will continue to be gold - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Old Neil you are now my favorite guitar reviewer...and I was only busting your balls about taking more pics. Love the fretboard on your new axe. BUT... I still want to hear it's tone though...can you get on those recordings already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fair enough Eyecon, An interesting postscript: The shop has decided to keep the True Vintage anyway as they like it so much and think it will sell. I agree. Its a very good guitar. I have recorded songs with other guitars but nothing but a little comparative riffing on these three via the iphone with me making comments to myself about them. Nothing I would put on a guitar forum in other words. :lol: Thank you everyone by the way for the kind responses. I am glad I could share some of the experience with those that 'get' this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdd707 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thanks ... Wonderful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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