L5Larry Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I was going to post this earlier, but I thought frets might want to see what a custom order L5 looks like. This is my '66, which was ordered with a Charlie Christian pickup: So, just what exactly does this have to do with a hacked up L-7C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What difference does this make. Somebody has already taken a jigsaw and power drill to this guitar! Seems pretty simple. I followed up on Nick's post about what might have been, with another possibility. Did Nick's comments about DeArmond or Benedetto pickups upset you also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps, unintentionally, this could serve to provide some perspective. If we look at an L-5C with a Charlie Christian pup, what do we see? No way does a pup of that era "belong" on that guitar-it would have had P-90s and later PAF's. So, do some see a "hack job'? Do some see great combo they are happy to see exist (like, some my DREAM about finding an L-5c with that pup). Or some, may be concerned with it being original, as if it was factory, it would be VERY special and cause the price to go up (maybe), and if it was added later, would cause it to cut at least by half, if not more. So, if we are talking about what it is worth, the SAME guitar could be worth two VERY different things. What does it really matter if it left the factory like that or was done later as far as the result? Granted, finding out about such things could be very important, as it could mean thousands of dollers, both for the seller AND the buyer. It is also important from a historical perspective, if one cares about such things. But lets not loose our priorities here. An L-5C with a CC pup makes my heart skip a beat, because of what it is. If you can't get into that, you got a hole in your archtop soul. Same if the only reason to get into it is if it is factory or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't know...it seems to be completely sealed, with the casing all the way to the bottom. The screws/poles on the top seem to be rather flat and precision made. I might say that as far as manufacture, more effort has been made in tooling and precision with this than most. It really doesn't prove anything either way, because the quality inside or the sound may be a whole different matter. (as you allude to). Yep Stein, after taking a second look, I have reversed my original opinion. The poles do look quality. The pickup merely does not look familiar to me. But thats neither here nor there. RRod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If we look at an L-5C with a Charlie Christian pup, what do we see? No way does a pup of that era "belong" on that guitar-it would have had P-90s and later PAF's. Thus the term (and the practice of the) "custom order". So, do some see a "hack job'? Do some see great combo they are happy to see exist (like, some my DREAM about finding an L-5c with that pup). Or some, may be concerned with it being original, as if it was factory, it would be VERY special and cause the price to go up (maybe), and if it was added later, would cause it to cut at least by half, if not more. So, if we are talking about what it is worth, the SAME guitar could be worth two VERY different things. What does it really matter if it left the factory like that or was done later as far as the result? Granted, finding out about such things could be very important, as it could mean thousands of dollers, both for the seller AND the buyer. It is also important from a historical perspective, if one cares about such things. But lets not loose our priorities here. An L-5C with a CC pup makes my heart skip a beat, because of what it is. If you can't get into that, you got a hole in your archtop soul. Same if the only reason to get into it is if it is factory or not. Very interesting comments and questions, stein. I understand that this topic involves plenty of subjectivity in terms of aesthetics, value and such. I think the main thing you didn't mention was the fact that there is a long tradition (dating back to the late 1930's) of Gibson archtops being custom fitted with CC pickups, and for a short time in the late 50's, Gibson offered the L4 with a CC as a stock feature. So, in that sense, it isn't a shock to see a guitar like mine from the 60's. The CC doesn't "belong" in terms of the stock features of the model, but it isn't completely alien to a Gibson archtop of the era (and I'm not suggesting that you were implying that). This is the third Gibson I've owned with a CC, and the second one that was custom-ordered (the other was a '54 ES350). When I began looking for an L5 with a CC, I imagined that I would probably end up with a modified L5C, and frankly I would have been satisfied with that as long as the pickup was vintage (I was primarily after a certain sound, not necessarily a "collectible" instrument). On the other hand, I've always had a little of the "collector" mentality in me too, so it was exciting to find this guitar. Before I bought it, I had lost out on another example that had been sold on ebay. The ebay guitar sold for at least $3000 more than I paid for mine, and it turned out to be a modified L5C where the braces had been cut for the CC installation. Sometimes it's good to lose out on deals. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The L5 looks Sweet..... to bad the CC Pickup system could be incorperated in to the L7C ... I bet it could and made to look like it belongs.. Even keeping a the pickup in the L7 isnt hurting it now.. The damage looks to be done.. But to someone else , it could be used very well... Dont forget the ES175 CC from the late 70s.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frets Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't know...it seems to be completely sealed, with the casing all the way to the bottom. The screws/poles on the top seem to be rather flat and precision made. I might say that as far as manufacture, more effort has been made in tooling and precision with this than most. It really doesn't prove anything either way, because the quality inside or the sound may be a whole different matter. (as you allude to). Hi again, Well, have checked the pots. The markings just give the pot number and brand ohms etc. The date code is not on them. Have opened up the p-ups to have a closer look. Here are some pics of the inside of them. Been searching the web looking for something that would indicate something about them without any luck so far. There are no stampings or markings other than 3 initials hand written in what looks like a black felt pen "GPB or GRB or CPB or CRB" . Can’t see anymore without the chance of damaging them so that’s all we have. The thin transculent paper looks similar to that used by paper capacitor manufacturers. The glue packs the windings into the pressed gold plated cover, which was very cleanly welded in the corners prior to plating. It looks like a neat early manufacturing job. Not a backyard job. There are 2 x separate rough sand cast strip magnets 2.25” long under windings. Like the early alnico bars. The screws pass through the split between the 2 magnets. Looks very much like a early P90, but gold plated Am wondering if who ever owned this before me ( more than 30 years ago) could have fitted a pickup that actually pre-dated the guitar. The 3 screw TR cover is just held in place with 1 screw and there is no damage to that area. The screw holes are fine. I am going to try and get hold of an original 2 screw one and a tail piece. A pickguard that better fits / suits the pickup from the guitar’s era is a good idea too. Great suggestions. Any suggestions as to who I might source these from ? Are there any diagrams available which might show me what the standard bracing would have been under the top of this guitar.? Thanks and cheers to all….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frets Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thus the term (and the practice of the) "custom order". Very interesting comments and questions, stein. I understand that this topic involves plenty of subjectivity in terms of aesthetics, value and such. I think the main thing you didn't mention was the fact that there is a long tradition (dating back to the late 1930's) of Gibson archtops being custom fitted with CC pickups, and for a short time in the late 50's, Gibson offered the L4 with a CC as a stock feature. So, in that sense, it isn't a shock to see a guitar like mine from the 60's. The CC doesn't "belong" in terms of the stock features of the model, but it isn't completely alien to a Gibson archtop of the era (and I'm not suggesting that you were implying that). This is the third Gibson I've owned with a CC, and the second one that was custom-ordered (the other was a '54 ES350). When I began looking for an L5 with a CC, I imagined that I would probably end up with a modified L5C, and frankly I would have been satisfied with that as long as the pickup was vintage (I was primarily after a certain sound, not necessarily a "collectible" instrument). On the other hand, I've always had a little of the "collector" mentality in me too, so it was exciting to find this guitar. Before I bought it, I had lost out on another example that had been sold on ebay. The ebay guitar sold for at least $3000 more than I paid for mine, and it turned out to be a modified L5C where the braces had been cut for the CC installation. Sometimes it's good to lose out on deals. :) Good perspecitve you present Jim, I asked a question on my earlier post today, but in case you did not see it. Any idea as to where I might be able to find a diagram of what the standard bracing would have been under the top of this L7C guitar.? "where the braces had been cut for the CC installation" I hope this is not going to be the case for me. Cheers :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would think if the braces had been cut, you might see it at the hole. As for the pup, I am stumped. Don't recognize it one bit. About all I could say is that it appears there might be a little thought into it, as it looks well shielded, and I bet that is what that copper wire around the poles would be for (to help reduce hum?). The casing looks far deeper than it needs to be, and I don't really know of a solid body that would be able to accommodate such a deep pup. But those are just thoughts...don't count on my thoughts, cause I don't know. The original hardware would have been nickel. I am guessing it was switched out to match the pup? I don't know if another pup would work in the size hole you have. IDK, I guess at this point, I think you could do whatever you feel you want, and it would still be a nice guitar. Just because we don't know what the pup is, don't mean it doesn't sound good. And the 'features' only look odd to someone who has way to much info on what Gibson models had this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Great detective work FRETS ! The pickup is a mystery to me also. May be a home-brew of some sort...and could well be older than the guitar. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here's a decent replacement TR cover on eBay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Truss-Rod-Cover-Gibson-2ply-blank-New-/110801106009?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item19cc42b459 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 frets, There are sometimes exceptions to bracing patterns designed for specific models. I would suggest using a small mirror to look inside your guitar. You might look for a dental mirror, for example. You could go through the pickup hole, or if the pickup is back in place, you could go through one f-hole. Shine a flashlight in the other f-hole. At any rate, if that pickup has been on there for a long time, you probably have nothing to worry about at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frets Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 frets, There are sometimes exceptions to bracing patterns designed for specific models. I would suggest using a small mirror to look inside your guitar. You might look for a dental mirror, for example. You could go through the pickup hole, or if the pickup is back in place, you could go through one f-hole. Shine a flashlight in the other f-hole. At any rate, if that pickup has been on there for a long time, you probably have nothing to worry about at this point. Have had a look at the inside but cannot tell if the bracing has been cut through. Where the bracing meets the pickup cutout edge is a tidy chamfered end to it. Yes it has been there a long time and all has been ok. Putting it back together now and will chase up the parts to better match its age. Thanks for the link PFox14. Looking forward to getting back in to having a play again. Thanks to all for your help with this one. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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